The New-New Moral Majority

[cantata]

Why should a Christian company be required to insure the sex partner of the kind of relationship they find to be an abomination? Could not a person in ICU request the presence of anyone they choose? And if they are unconscious does one's presence even matter?

What about the good of the person whose loved one is in ICU? Don't they deserve to see their loved one, even if they're unconscious and won't know they're there?

If your wife was unconscious, wouldn't you still want to visit her in hospital?

 

[Caylin]

Why should a Christian company be required to insure the sex partner of the kind of relationship they find to be an abomination? Could not a person in ICU request the presence of anyone they choose? And if they are unconscious does one's presence even matter?

So are you saying that a Christian company shouldn't be required to insure a jewish couple or a couple that had been divorced?

I would certainly want to be by my girlfriend's side if she was hurt badly enough to be out. Are you telling me that the time I spent at my mother's side as she died was wasted?

 

[tulc]

And if they are unconscious does one's presence even matter?

...ever had someone you love die? Or have surgery and been under anesthetic?
tulc(just curious)

 

[Ringo84]

Well then, I suppose you also feel that prayer and Bible reading in public school never impressed anyone either..................... So, why are some against that again?

Let me interject here. Nobody is "against" prayer and Bible reading in public school - which, by the way, is still alive and well. They are against mandatory prayer and Bible reading in school.
Ringo

 

[jcook922]

Let me interject here. Nobody is "against" prayer and Bible reading in public school - which, by the way, is still alive and well. They are against mandatory prayer and Bible reading in school.
Ringo

Actually, I'm against it. There isn't any mandatory religious practices in ANY American public school that I know of. You must be talking about christian schools. I'd like to keep it that way.

 

[Ringo84]

Actually, I'm against it. There isn't any mandatory religious practices in ANY American public school that I know of. You must be talking about christian schools. I'd like to keep it that way.

Yes, and that's because mandatory school prayer was struck down in 1962. Fortunately, we don't force any students into religious practices in public school, and that's the way it should be.
Ringo

 

[Trevorocity]

Except, y'know, when they do.

Right, except they don't. Its typically right-wing shills who claim they do. Their behavior patterns may change but that's not the same as saying their sexual orientation has changed. The underlying sexual attraction to the same-sex, stays put.

 

[jcook922]

Right, except they don't. Its typically right-wing shills who claim they do. Their behavior patterns may change but that's not the same as saying their sexual orientation has changed. The underlying sexual attraction to the same-sex, stays put.

Any scientific proof?

 

[Trevorocity]

Any scientific proof?

No such scientific test has been conducted. Only anecdotal evidence exists. Check out beyondexgay.com for more information. OR if you want to be involved in your own scientific study: choose to become homosexually oriented and not at all heterosexually oriented. Then report the results of your attempt.

 

[jcook922]

No such scientific test has been conducted. Only anecdotal evidence exists. Check out beyondexgay.com for more information. OR if you want to be involved in your own scientific study: choose to become homosexually oriented and not at all heterosexually oriented. Then report the results of your attempt.

You first.

 

[keith99]

Yes, and that's because mandatory school prayer was struck down in 1962. Fortunately, we don't force any students into religious practices in public school, and that's the way it should be.
Ringo

To be more accurate, the state no longer tries to mandate this. There are still cases of individuals in positions of power who try to. And the vast majority of the time the state does the proper things and enforces the law to stop them.

 

[Braunwyn]

What you do on your time is of no interest to me. Simply keep it to yourself and don't make it a pubic scandal... Gosh, when I was my kid's age, I had absolutely no clue that there were men who had perverse sex. I didn't even know such existed outside bible stories in "modern" times.

Than call on Dr. Who to fetch you back to a time when bigotry was more embraced than it is now. Keep in mind littlenip that your voice is no more important than the majority and it's obvious that the majority is becoming fed up with bigots.

 

[mpok1519]

other.....the depths of my own soul will hide me!

=P

 

[mpok1519]

To be more accurate, the state no longer tries to mandate this. There are still cases of individuals in positions of power who try to. And the vast majority of the time the state does the proper things and enforces the law to stop them.

I think the pledge of alliegence was a bit much now that I think of it...

 

[coyoteBR]

Considering imigrating?
- We are the people who, percentually, stays the longer connected on broadband internet: more than an hour per day/user. You'll feel like home
- Latelly, we have a currency stronger than US dollar. You can send some money to your dear ones who remained in US
- Also, we have the largest Pride Parade in the world. So, if you are still to find your special one, there's no lack of options.

Add to that great landscape, people and climate, and I think we have a winner.

We'll be glad to have you around. Start training your portuguese

 

[Beanieboy]

Any scientific proof?

Most human sexuality researchers believe that one's orientation is fixed and unchangeable. Exceptions are those specialists in human sexuality who are also religious conservatives. Many of the latter are members of NARTH, a small professional organization that promotes conservative religious beliefs about homosexuality.

A number of techniques have been used to try to suppress homosexual feelings and/or create heterosexual feelings in gays and lesbians: 1

Lesbians had their breasts amputated.
Lesbians had their perfectly healthy uteri removed.
Male gays were given aversion therapy; e.g. clients were shown pictures of naked men and simultaneously shocked with electricity.
Other "treatments" included:

brain surgery in the form of frontal lobotomies.
castration.
counseling and psychotherapy.
drug therapy: e.g. animal-organ extracts, cocaine, estrogen, testosterone.
positive therapy: e.g. men were asked to touch and then were shown pictures of women just before [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].
prayer and spiritual counseling.
therapy by tedium: men were shown homoerotic pictures until they became totally bored.
During the Nazi regime in Germany, Himmler attempted to "cure" gays by requiring them to visit the camp brothel at Flossenburg. "Ten Ravensbruck women provided the services with little success. The women [were later]...shipped to Auschwitz" for execution.
During the recent apartheid regime in South Africa, gays and lesbians were considered deviants. They were sent to a special ward of a military hospital to be "rehabilitated." This involved electric shock treatments and chemical castration. Those who could not be "cured" were given sex-change operations. A number of "patients" died.
The success rate of these therapies in actually changing clients' sexual orientation appears to have been between 0% and something less than 0.1%. The success rate at changing clients' sexual behavior is much greater. Some of these techniques can persuade homosexuals to be celibate -- perhaps only for a short interval -- either through terror, guilt, or persuasion that God considers same-sex behavior to be an abomination. They can persuade bisexuals to confine their sexual activities to members of the opposite sex. They may even be able to train gays to successfully have sex with a woman, while fantasize about making love to another man. But therapies do not seem to be capable of changing one's feelings -- one's sexual orientation -- in the vast majority of people.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_fixe.htm

Link to studies: http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_repar.htm

One would think that most heterosexuals, who claim up and down that they could ever be with someone of the same sex, would understand that they don't wake up gay one day, nor did they make some conscious decision to go from being a typical boy who hates girls, to suddenly being crazy about them.

0-.1% is certainly false advertising that one is simply making a choice, and can be made heterosexual.

I also believe that there are many gay people who are led to believe that God can't love them as a gay person, and they must become "acceptable" to God. The truth is, I don't believe they are acceptable to certain people, Christian or non. (Even nonChristians use slurs toward gay people, harrass them, call them disgusting, tell them they make them sick.) When Christians do the same, one can't tell the difference between the nonChristian and the Christian.

If one sings, "Just as I am, without one plea", yet demands of others to become acceptable in God's eyes first, they have simply committed hypocracy.

 

[StarCannon]

...
I do know that if the gov'ment tries anything especially stupid that I'll gather my friends and they'll gather their friends and we'll all start stocking up on ammunition and sharp pointy objects.

 

[cantata]

Right, except they don't. Its typically right-wing shills who claim they do. Their behavior patterns may change but that's not the same as saying their sexual orientation has changed. The underlying sexual attraction to the same-sex, stays put.

Well, excuse me, but I changed my sexual orientation (and I'm as liberal as they come, by the way). I'm an ex-straight. Is that a problem for you?

 

[acropolis]

Well, excuse me, but I changed my sexual orientation (and I'm as liberal as they come, by the way). I'm an ex-straight. Is that a problem for you?

But aren't you still attracted to men? Wouldn't that mean that, for you, the underlying heterosexuality has remained intact despite efforts to reverse it?

I don't necessarily disagree that orientation can be changed, since humans can adjust to just about any behavior if sufficiently motivated, but I don't see how you're example contradicts what Trevorocity said. Your case indicates that it is possible for females to choose to be bisexual, which says nothing about switching from gay to straight or vice versa. It also doesn't say anything about whether or not males can choose their orientation, so it would probably be useful to separate statements made about female sexuality from those about male sexuality. More so because the evidence shows they behave differently.

 

[cantata]

But aren't you still attracted to men? Wouldn't that mean that, for you, the underlying heterosexuality has remained intact despite efforts to reverse it?

Well, I'm no longer heterosexual; I'm bisexual. I have become newly attracted to women. I have never claimed that it is possible for people to stop being attracted to a particular sex. I dare say for some (possibly with hypnotherapy) such a thing might be feasible, although I can't imagine any good reasons for doing it.

I don't necessarily disagree that orientation can be changed, since humans can adjust to just about any behavior if sufficiently motivated, but I don't see how you're example contradicts what Trevorocity said. Your case indicates that it is possible for females to choose to be bisexual, which says nothing about switching from gay to straight or vice versa. It also doesn't say anything about whether or not males can choose their orientation, so it would probably be useful to separate statements made about female sexuality from those about male sexuality. More so because the evidence shows they behave differently.

Trevorocity claimed that no one ever changes their sexual orientation. I think it is ludicrous and unfair to make such sweeping statements, which are clearly going to alienate anyone who actually did change themselves in whatever way. Why does it matter if a few people did? I don't see how it makes a difference to any of the arguments anyway. I doubt psychopaths choose to be psychopaths, but you can still make a good case for them not acting in the ways they feel motivated to act, so the issue of choice clearly has no bearing on the ethics of homosexual activity.

I am quite happy to go along with the statement, "Most people cannot change their sexual orientation," and also with the statement "Most people did not choose their sexual orientation," but I am singularly unwilling to accept a claim from one person with a chip on their shoulder that no one has ever in the entire history of the universe changed their sexual orientation. Ex-gay ministries, by the way, usually aim precisely at cultivating opposite-sex attraction more than they attempt to eliminate same-sex attraction (although they do, of course, encourage people to avoid sexual same-sex relationships).

I am also aware of some queer-by-choice people who are no longer attracted to the opposite sex. Their claims should at least be investigated before such broad generalisations are made.