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The New “No Straw Man” challenge
- Thread starter Hammster
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I was hoping you’d show where He couldn’t prevent them from doing so.
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renniks
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6In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes.
That pretty much sums up the majority of human history. Again, to prove what you say about God controlling everything, you have to prove that what they did in every case was actually caused by God's decrees.
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That doesn’t answer the question. I know that God allowed it. The question is, could He have prevented it?
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So He could, then. If you agree with that, then you agree that He’s completely sovereign over all events.
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renniks
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Apparently, not, and still have the type of world that this one is, a world where people can choose God or Satan, good or evil. See, this is not heaven yet, this isn't the new earth where God's rule is complete. He reigns until all his enemies are under his feet. That hasn't happened yet.
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Just like if He Prevented Judas from betraying Him,
it would have foiled His Own Plan.
He Easily Could have called a hundred thousand angels , yet chose not to.
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So like I said, you believe God is powerless to stop certain acts of men.
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With your view, He’s not sovereign over much. But it’s not your view they concerns this thread.
BTW, thanks for basically staying on topic.
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One last time (hopefully). If God can stop something from happening, murder for instance, and does not stop it, He has a reason.
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In the day of prosperity be happy,
But in the day of adversity consider—
God has made the one as well as the other
So that man will not discover anything that will be after him.
— Ecclesiastes 7:14
But in the day of adversity consider—
God has made the one as well as the other
So that man will not discover anything that will be after him.
— Ecclesiastes 7:14
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Then Job answered the Lord and said,
“I know that You can do all things,
And that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted.
— Job 42:1-2
“I know that You can do all things,
And that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted.
— Job 42:1-2
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I did this in General Theology a few years ago because of some of the discussions going on. I thought I’d try it here to see how it goes.
As usual, Reformed Theology is misrepresented by what folks think is being taught. Generally, it’s not accurate, though I’m sure it’s well-intentioned. I’m sure I made some of the same arguments myself.
So here's the challenge. Below you will find links to some various documents that those who hold to Reformed Theology will agree on, at least soteriologically. The challenge is to quote from one of them, and then state why you believe it is incorrect. This will hopefully lead to a reasoned discussion. Any argument that does not start this way will be considered off topic. You are, however, free to start your own thread on that matter.
Here are your links.
The 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith (I would have used the Westminster Confession, but I'm Baptist)
Canons of Dordt
Heidelberg Catechism
Institutes of the Christian Religion, John Calvin, Christian Classics Books, Bible Study
Please respect what’s being asked. If you cannot, then just post elsewhere. Thanks.
ETA. Since this is now in Soteriology, let’s stick to that.
Chapter 3: Of God's Decree
1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
Since sin is a thing, it is a logical contradiction to say that God ordained all things yet didn't ordain sin.
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