Insureman23
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Welcome to the forum, Insureman23.
03:45 GMT
i heard you. and to be clear, i wasnt calling you one.Super Kal, I am a futurist, but not a dispensationalist. Some futurists are dispensationalists, but not all.
Every one is a dispensationalist per that metric. So people should stop using what every one is in a derogatory manner, and then you all won't be in denial so much.Doug, I kind of figured you would deny being a dispensationalist, but that’s because you obviously don’t grasp what it takes to be one. The sine qua non of dispensationalism is that they hold two separate mediations for the Church and Israel because they see them as separate bodies. God prophesied about Israel, while the Church was unforeseen in their doctrine.
no-one that I know of refers to any rapture timing view as the "dispensational view".and your view of the rapture is still the same as the dispensational view.
the only difference between yours and theirs is you define the tribulation as 3 1/2 years, while taditional dispies define it as the full 7 years.
no-one that I know of refers to any rapture timing view as the "dispensational view".
The traditional view are pre-trib, mid-trib, pre-wrath, post trib.
You and Jerry don't seem to understand what is the backbone of dispensationalism - the seven dispensations.
Someone who doesn't believe in that system of seven dispensations is not a dispensationalist. Futurism is not a sub-sect of dispensationalism.
You yourself have views in common with dispensationalists. For example, you believe that Jesus is the messiah. Does that mean your view is the dispensational view? Do you not see how offensive your and Jerry's tactics are?
Debate the dispenstationalism with persons who actually claim to be dispenstaionalists and not drag others into that debate by FALSELY saying or inferring their view as being dispensational....especially since you don't mention any of the seven dispenstations of that system I am not interested in the war that you and Jerry want to wage.
If you or anyone else want to talk about futurist view, fine. But don't drag dispensationalism into it, and accuse me of it.
btw, what is your rapture timing view ?
No, actually I don't ever use the term "the tribulation" in expressing my view. I use the biblical based term of "the great tribulation".
The great tribulation begins with the setting up of the abomination of desolation statue image. The great tribulation lasts 1335 days, based on Daniel 12:11-12.
Here is a timeline critical path chart I made of the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27. On the chart near the lower third of it - you will see the "Great Tribulation, 1335 days (highlighted in blue)
View attachment 320067
No, I just accept there is one God for all humanity, and that God did call out people at certain times for His will and plan on earth.Obviously, you hold an open theist perspective.
You really cannot figure out 42 months is 3.5 years, yet you claim a 7 year tribulation with a half way point? You do know half of 7 is 3.5?Tim, you are not communicating a rational order of events.
As an analogy, let me take the sentence "Joe Biden is the president of the United States". That sentence makes sense because the letters and spaces are all in an orderly rational fashion.
But taking the letters of that same sentence and presenting them as....
"BprrhedJaSotdistU"
.... it makes no sense at all. That's how you are coming across communication wise regarding eschatology.
many dispies i know of do.no-one that I know of refers to any rapture timing view as the "dispensational view".
im very well aware of the different viewsThe traditional view are pre-trib, mid-trib, pre-wrath, post trib.
actually, i do. i used to be one myself.You and Jerry don't seem to understand what is the backbone of dispensationalism - the seven dispensations.
like i noted above, this was further developed later on in the 19th century. it is a characteristic of dispensationalism, but not the defining characteristic, not historically, anyway.Someone who doesn't believe in that system of seven dispensations is not a dispensationalist. Futurism is not a sub-sect of dispensationalism.
ONCE AGAIN, I never said you were a dispensationalst.You yourself have views in common with dispensationalists. For example, you believe that Jesus is the messiah. Does that mean your view is the dispensational view? Do you not see how offensive your and Jerry's tactics are?
im classic post-tribbtw, what is your rapture timing view ?
i dont see evidence for the great tribulation starting with the image of the beast. Daniel 9:27 states when the last seven years starts-with that covenant with many- and Revelation states that the time that the beast will make war with the saints lasts 42 months, or 3 1/2 years, Revelation 13:5, Daniel 7:25... Jesus said it was shortened for our sake, Matthew 24:22, so technically, that "great tribulation" period lasts 3 1/2 years. not 7 years like dispies claim, not 75 days as Bill MacGregor claims, and most certainly not 1335 days as you claimNo, actually I don't ever use the term "the tribulation" in expressing my view. I use the biblical based term of "the great tribulation".
The great tribulation begins with the setting up of the abomination of desolation statue image. The great tribulation lasts 1335 days, based on Daniel 12:11-12.
yeah, i dont really care for charts, mostly because dispies are the ones obsessed with charts, and I've seen my fair share over the years...Here is a timeline critical path chart I made of the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27. On the chart near the lower third of it - you will see the "Great Tribulation, 1335 days (highlighted in blue)
I have never hear a single person refer to a rapture timing view as the "dispensational rapture". I think most dispensationalists hold the pre-trib rapture position.many dispies i know of do.
You were insinuating it though.next time you falsely accuse me of calling you that, i will report you, because I never once called you a dispensationalist.
The image of the beast is the abomination of desolation, which will be placed on the temple, at which time the Jews in Judea should flee to the mountains.i dont see evidence for the great tribulation starting with the image of the beast.
Why are you asking me this? When did I say that Satan accused anyone "of being naturally born into Adam's flesh"?Why would Satan accuse us of being naturally born into Adam's dead flesh?
Where are you getting that from?Satan accused Job of living righteous, only because God was good to Job.
Are our sins not forgiven and covered by the blood of Christ? Of course. So, what can he accuse us of? Did you even bother reading Romans 8:31-36? Paul said that no one can make accusations against us or condemn us. Was he wrong? You think Satan can do that even though Paul said no one can?You are trying to say nothing is wrong with Christians, therefore Satan can no longer accuse us.
Where did Paul make that point? Nowhere. You're making that up. He asked who can make a charge (accusation - same thing) against us and said no one can. But, here you are saying that Satan can do that. You clearly do not understand what Paul was teaching in Romans 8:31-36.The point Paul was making is that when Satan accuses us, Jesus reminds God that He is the Atonement.
I appreciate the fact that you made an effort to put everything on a chart to organize end times events in relation to each other.I like your chart, well done. It seems we are close in agreement, yet I believe it's a mid-trib rapture and did this chart a few years back.
View attachment 320069
You seem to believe a lot of the same things that dispensationalists do, so it's a little confusing as to why you are denying that you are a dispensationalist.I have never hear a single person refer to a rapture timing view as the "dispensational rapture". I think most dispensationalists hold the pre-trib rapture position.
Because I don't accept the backbone doctrine of dispensationalism of it's seven dispensations "system" of seven ages of how God relates to man.You seem to believe a lot of the same things that dispensationalists do, so it's a little confusing as to why you are denying that you are a dispensationalist.
My "Anytime rapture view" is anytime (a window) between now and when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God.Your view of the timing of the rapture is very similar to theirs except you say it has to occur before the great tribulation instead of right before a 7 year tribulation period. So, your view is pre-great trib instead of pre-trib.
The 70 weeks of Daniel 9 are determined upon Daniels people, the Jews, and Jerusalem. Not on 7 dispensational ages of dispensationalism.Your view is also very Israel-centric as is typical of dispensationalists as well. It seems like the only difference between you and a typical dispensationalist is that you see the timing of things a little differently than a typical dispensationalist does.
So, in your view, how much time could pass between the rapture "and when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God"? Any amount of time? Or is there a limit (if so, what is it)? If it's any amount of time is that what you really believe, that there could be a long time between the rapture "and when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God"?My "Anytime rapture view" is anytime (a window) between now and when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God.
So, what do you believe is the duration of the Day of the Lord and what do you believe is the duration of the great tribulation? Do you believe the great tribulation begins while the Day of the Lord is still going on? Do you think the Day of the Lord and the great tribulation end at the same time?That act by the Antichrist triggers the beginning of the Day of Lord, not the great tribulation, which is triggered by the abomination of desolation statue image setup on the temple mount..
Yes, I acknowledged that your view is a bit different from pre-trib. But, it seems similar. In each case, it has to happen before a time of tribulation.Different from my Anytime Rapture view, the pre-trib rapture, holds that the rapture takes place in a window between now and when the 70th week begins.
Nah, I'm not that interested in this to take the time to do that. I'll just take your word for it that you're not a dispensationalist and that you just have some similar beliefs as they do.The 70 weeks of Daniel 9 are determined upon Daniels people, the Jews, and Jerusalem. Not on 7 dispensational ages of dispensationalism.
Why don't you go to some dispensationalist site and copy and paste one of their chart of the 70ht week of Daniel 9, so I can point out how my chart(s) is not the same as theirs.
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