the Mark of the Beast, Daniel's 70th week, and Pastor Bill Macgregor

[jgr]

no. I'm not a Catholic. how in the sam hill did you come to THAT ridiculous conclusion??

once again, you're wrong.
the ante-Nicene church (which means the church prior to the Nicene Council, which was held in 325AD) was neither Catholic, Protestant, or Greek Orthodox. They were simply Christians.
while the Protestant church as we know it today began with the Protestant Reformation, the Roman Catholic Church as we know it today took over a thousand years to become was we see today. the church in Rome did not receive special accommodations until a little over halfway into the first millennium.

Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Victorinus, Commodianus, Lactantius, Hippolytus...
all futurists. and these were inviduals who lived and died before the Protestant/Roman Catholic/Greek Orthodox churches ever existed

The early Protestant Church repudiated all futurism, including that of Justin Martyr et al, because the Reformers recognized that "the future was now" in the fulfillment of antichrist by the apostate Catholic papacy.

Or, to be specific, the Reformers recognized that the futurism espoused by Justin Martyr et al found its fulfillment in the apostate Catholic papacy.

So the only futurism at that time, and for the next two centuries, was apostate Catholic futurism.

That's what you've embraced.

 

[Super Kal]

i have no desire to continue a conversation with a squawking parrot, which is why I'm ignoring you, now but for those who have been reading along, jgr is committing the guilt by association fallacy... he's claiming that I'm a catholic just because i hold to futurism.

well, truth is, most catholics today arent even futurists... they're more idealists and amillennials, but even if they were futuristic in their end times scenario, that doesnt mean all futurists are catholics.

jgr is a premillennialist... well, so are Mormons. if i were to use his logic, then jgr would be a Mormon simply because he's premillennial, but that's an illogical conclusion because premillennialism is not the qualifying term to define Mormonism, and neither is futurism the qualifying term to define Catholicism

the truth of the matter still remains. he ante-Nicene church was both premillennial and futurist. even with Irenaeus, he even goes as far to define Daniel 9:27 as the last 7 years of history, something historicists don't do. he also defines the great tribulation as 3 1/2 years, or 1260 days. Historicism defines these days as years, so for Irenaeus to define them as days, and not years, is more clarification that Irenaeus was a futurist, and not an historicist.

i will admit that it is a very strong possibility that the RCC could very well be false prophet, but im not convinced the Pope is the antichrist. the Antichrist has to be Assyrian and Jewish... the pope is neither.

 

[jgr]

i have no desire to continue a conversation with a squawking parrot, but for those who have been reading along, jwb is committing the guilt by association fallacy... he's claiming that I'm a catholic just because i hold to futurism.

well, truth is, most catholics today arent even futurists... they're more idealists and amillennials, but even if they were futuristic in their end times scenario, that doesnt mean all futurists are catholics.

jwb is a premillennialist... well, so are Mormons. if i were to use his logic, then jwb would be a Mormon simply because he's premillennial, but that's an illogical conclusion because premillennialism is not the qualifying term to define Mormonism, and neither is futurism the qualifying term to define Catholicism

the truth of the matter still remains. he ante-Nicene church was both premillennial and futurist. even with Irenaeus, he even goes as far to define Daniel 9:27 as the last 7 years of history, something historicists don't do. he also defines the great tribulation as 3 1/2 years, or 1260 days. Historicism defines these days as years, so for Irenaeus to define them as days, and not years, is more clarification that Irenaeus was a futurist, and not an historicist.

i will admit that it is a very strong possibility that the RCC could very well be false prophet, but im not convinced the Pope is the antichrist. the Antichrist has to be Assyrian and Jewish... the pope is neither.

Who is jwb?

Recognition of the apostate papacy as the prevailing antichrist of their era, against whom God had empowered them for spiritual battle, was a foundation doctrine of the Reformers and the Reformation.

Had the Reformation failed, where do you think you would be today?
Hint: Not on this forum disparaging it.

The futurism which Protestants espouse today is the futurism spawned in the apostasy of the apostate papacy's counter-reformation.

It is a betrayal of the Reformation.

 

[Douggg]

i will admit that it is a very strong possibility that the RCC could very well be false prophet, but im not convinced the Pope is the antichrist. the Antichrist has to be Assyrian and Jewish... the pope is neither.

The false prophet will be a person, not an organization. He and the beast will be cast alive into the lake of fire.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Timtofly]

The early Protestant Church repudiated all futurism, including that of Justin Martyr et al, because the Reformers recognized that "the future was now" in the fulfillment of antichrist by the apostate Catholic papacy.

Or, to be specific, the Reformers recognized that the futurism espoused by Justin Martyr et al found its fulfillment in the apostate Catholic papacy.

So the only futurism at that time, and for the next two centuries, was apostate Catholic futurism.

That's what you've embraced.

That was the many antichrists during the Reformation.

Your claim is that they repudiated John's antichrists as being since the first century. They certainly did not repudiate the Second Coming, and declared it null and void.

You have a bizzare definition of futurism. Until the Second Coming there will be many antichrists, even among Protestants, and those who hold to Reformation theology. No theology is immune from having antichrists distort the truth.

 

[Timtofly]

jgr is a premillennialist...

Hardly.

He argues against about everything, but jgr-ology.

 

[Timtofly]

LOL. This is incredible. Do you understand who inspired what is written in 2 Thess 1:7-10? God did. Do you think God doesn't know if there will be unbelievers alive when Christ returns or not? Of course He does. So, that prophecy is not conditional at all. To say that all prophecy is conditional is beyond ludicrous and I'm not going to waste any more time talking about that.

So by this logic, God forced Nineveh to repent. They had no choice in the matter.

Either that, or you doubt a world wide revival could take place like what happened in Nineveh.

God is not willing that any should perish.

Do you think there should be a "but God declared they all would"?

At what point in any one's life does God say enough is enough? Do you think the world in general is past that point? If, not, why claim revival is impossible, because God said so in the first century?

 

[Dave Watchman]

Either that, or you doubt a world wide revival could take place like what happened in Nineveh.

No world wide revival when time is no more.

God is not willing that any should perish.

But not ALL will come to repentance.

At what point in any one's life does God say enough is enough?

When God gives them over to a reprobate mind.

Do you think the world in general is past that point?

Yes. We're in the wrath phase right now. It almost reads like three strikes and you're out. The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven now. John MacArthur calls it the wrath of abandonment.

1) God gave them over.
2) God gave them over.
3) God gave them over.

"God gave them over in the desires of their hearts to impurity for the dishonoring of their bodies with one another.

"God gave them over to dishonorable passions. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.

"God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;​

So when this happens on a global scale, we enter into the night when no man can work, the "night" of Luke 17:

"I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”​

(Why would two men be in a field at "night")​

Previously, prophecy expositors have poo pooed the idea that Jesus is speaking of homosexuals in Luke 17. Although He clearly reinforces that interpretation in verses 34 and 35 of the same chapter.

All throughout the Bible, the Days of Noah, the days of Lot, and of Sodom and Gomorrah, represent the type of lust that will immediately precede the Man of Sin, the Antichrist, and of the end of the human civilization occurring after the flood. Time to pack a bag. We are the first civilization since the Flood that has legalized same sex marriage.

Two women "grinding" on the same "night" when two men are in the same bed?

"If mine heart have been deceived by a woman,
Or if I have laid wait at my neighbour’s door;
Then let my wife grind unto another,
And let others bow down upon her. - Job 31: 9-10

"Grinding" was a metaphor for sex in the Tanakh. The grinding stone was often phallic in shape and was placed into the opening where the grain was waiting to be ground by the stone.

"When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife [enjoy conjugal relations with her] which he hath taken. No man shall take the nether or the upper millstone to pledge: for he taketh a man’s life to pledge. If a man be found stealing any of his brethren of the children of Israel, and maketh merchandise of him, or selleth him; then that thief shall die; and thou shalt put evil away from among you. - Deuteronomy 24:5-6​

Rabbi Elie Munk comments:

One shall not take an upper or lower millstone as a pledge. The Midrash notes a symbolic linkage between this verse and the previous passage having to do with marriage. After the first sin, Eve was told, your craving shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you. [The set of upper and lower millstones are considered to be an analogy for a husband and wife, with the lower millstone, corresponding to the wife.].

Rabbi Elie Munk, The Call of the Torah: An Anthology of Interpretations and Commentary of the Five Books of Moses.​

If, not, why claim revival is impossible, because God said so in the first century?

No. Because we're deeper into Revelation's narrative than most realize.

We are here:

"The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood—idols that cannot see or hear or walk. Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.​

And here:

"And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.​

See these guys waiting in line for a Monkeypox vaccine. They would seek any treatment, any kind of vaccine and anti-virals, so they can continue in their iniquity. And if you question them, ask them about God, or their behaviours, be prepared as they can very frequently and violently blaspheme the Name of God with the worst expletives.

"It felt like I had three fissures right next to each other, and it was absolutely excruciating. I would literally scream out loud when I went to the bathroom.​

"And in those days shall men seek death, (the penalty for sin IS death), and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.​

In the "night" when no man can work, we reach the point when everyone is either "marked", or "sealed". Just in the hours prior to Jesus' Arrival. This has to be completed by then.

The only wild card remaining are these guys:

I'm sure the Devil knew that many of these were to be our brothers and fellow servants. The Devil knew how the Westminster Confession of Faith was correct concerning the elect infantry.

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[alertandawake]

See these guys waiting in line for a Monkeypox vaccine. They would seek any treatment, any kind of vaccine and anti-virals, so they can continue in their iniquity. And if you question them, ask them about God, or their behaviours, be prepared as they can very frequently and violently blaspheme the Name of God with the worst expletives.

Not surprised on that. It is going to be so easy to convince many people to get the mark of the beast. The marketing and promotion campaigns in a sense has already been done, now it is just a matter of time to present the final product to said person and convince them to get it, which won't be hard at all.

The level of mindless sheep being led to slaughter that is evident today, is beyond belief.

It will be so easy to convince people to get the mark of the beast. Just tell most of the people what they want to hear, and they will get it. And this is how I see many people getting it.

Dave, the example you made above is one way how I see people getting it.

There are people still now that have become so afraid (because of the pandemic) they cannot even think logically anymore.