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The beast out of the sea

PesachPup

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It is not 1260 days that the woman fly's into the wilderness in Revelation 12:14, but a time, times, half time.

After the 1260 days of Revelation 12:6, there will be the Revelation 12:7-9 war in (the second ) heaven and Satan cast down to earth. Then comes the time, times, half time of Revelation 12:14.

1260 days + war in second heaven time + time, times, half time = 7 years.
Rev 12:6 KJV And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

"The woman FLED"... and was fed for "1260 days". This verse names the length of time that woman IS FLED into the wilderness and IS FED.

But notice the difference in verse 14:

Rev 12:14 KJV And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

There it is about when she is given wings..."That she MIGHT FLY... from the face of the serpent". Verse 14 is not about how long she flees. Verse 6 is! Because it is from the time when the woman flees, which comes after Satan is cast unto the earth . Pay attention to the order of events. Satan was cast out of heaven "while the woman was READY to be delivered". Meaning that he was cast out before she delivers her child. Remember how many months there are in 3 years? Either 37 or 38. Add 6 or 7 months for the half year (it could be seven if the extra half year contains the intercalary month of Adar2. At the very least there would be 37 plus 6 months in a 3.5 year period or 43 months. Or it could be 44 months. It can't be 45 because this would mean that there would be 3 intercalary months in a 4 year period. Intercalary months are never in back to back years, so there cannot be 3 of them in 4 back to back years. Any way, there would be 1269 [plus or minus 1 day] in a 43 month period, and even more in a 44 month period of time. This is more than the 1260 stated length of days. This means that the T,T,&half T, must start AND/OR end at times different from the 1260 days. Both stated intervals deal with fleeing into the wilderness to be fed... the same event of being fed in the wilderness is pertinent to both. So there must be concurrence of the intervals of different lengths. They can't be non-concurrent. And the scriptures definitively declare that Satan is cast out before the woman delivers her child. And also the woman does not flee until she delivers. You have the woman fleeing BEFORE Satan is cast out, completely contrary to what these scriptures declare.

Rev 12:5-6 KJV 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Be Blessed
The PuP
 
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Douggg

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You have the woman fleeing BEFORE Satan is cast out, completely contrary to what these scriptures declare.
Revelation 12:1-5 is about the historic birth of Jesus to the woman Israel. Verse 5 is Jesus's ascent to heaven, where He is now.

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Revelation 12:6 begins the end times events involving the woman Israel. And Satan and his angels being cast down to earth from the second heaven in the end times, in the middle of the 7 years.

Revelation 12:6 is about Israel fleeing out of the nations, to the land of Israel, as God made it possible after WWII. The woman, Israel, will be fed there the word of God by the two witnesses during their 1260 days of Revelation 11:3.

The 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 and the 1260 days of Revelation 11:3 both take place in the first half of the seven years.

The times, times, half time of Revelation 12:14 take place in the second half of the seven years.

On my diagram, notice that all of the identical time frames are color coded by group. Notice the first nine time frames all end the day of Jesus's Return. And the next three time frames start at the beginning of the 7 years. And next three times frames are floating, not connected to the beginning or end of the 7 years.


time frames 5a.jpg
 
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PesachPup

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Revelation 12:1-5 is about the historic birth of Jesus to the woman Israel. Verse 5 is Jesus's ascent to heaven, where He is now.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Revelation 12:6 begins the end times events involving the woman Israel. And Satan and his angels being cast down to earth from the second heaven in the end times, in the middle of the 7 years.

Revelation 12:6 is about Israel fleeing out of the nations, to the land of Israel, as God made it possible after WWII. The woman, Israel, will be fed there the word of God by the two witnesses during their 1260 days of Revelation 11:3.

The 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 and the 1260 days of Revelation 11:3 both take place in the first half of the seven years.

The times, times, half time of Revelation 12:14 take place in the second half of the seven years.

On my diagram, notice that all of the identical time frames are color coded by group. Notice the first nine time frames all end the day of Jesus's Return. And the next three time frames start at the beginning of the 7 years. And next three times frames are floating, not connected to the beginning or end of the 7 years.


View attachment 366125
You should carefully read Isa 66. Rev 12 is a direct allusion to Isa 66.

Isa 66:5-6 KJV 5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. 6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

And Psalm 110:

Psa 110:1-2 KJV 1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. 2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

When the Lord Jesus leaves the Father's side, it is then that he will begin exercising his authority over his enemies. Notice what Isa 66:5 says. He shall make his appearance to the shame of his enemies and to the joy of those who tremble at his word. He will be a welcome sight to those that truly love God... the elect of Israel. The travailing woman is giving birth to the man-child AND (acknowledgement) to those who would have him to reign over them. Though they won't recognize him (at this time) as Jesus, they will be welcome him as Davids lord... who is to rule over them. The birth of the man child is not his birth as a baby, he is being birthed as their rightful king. He has left the Father's side to rule in the midst of his enemies, to sit on David's throne. When (in Isa 66) it says, shall a nation be born in a day? The answer is no. For it says, shall I bring to birth and then shut the womb? No! No! No!. Zions children must be born too. The woman is Zion. The rest of her children will be born soon after!

"... for as soon as Zion (THE WOMAN) travailed, [giving birth to the man- child] she brought forth (the rest of) HER CHILDREN!

It is referring to the time when Israel's blindness shall end. The Deliverer shall come to Zion and turn away ungodliness from (the house of) Jacob.

Be Blessed
The PuP
 
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Douggg

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You should carefully read Isa 66. Rev 12 is a direct allusion to Isa 66.

Isa 66:5-6 KJV 5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. 6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

And Psalm 110:

Psa 110:1-2 KJV 1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. 2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

When the Lord Jesus leaves the Father's side, it is then that he will begin exercising his authority over his enemies. Notice what Isa 66:5 says. He shall make his appearance to the shame of his enemies and to the joy of those who tremble at his word. He will be a welcome sight to those that truly love God... the elect of Israel. The travailing woman is giving birth to the man-child AND (acknowledgement) to those who would have him to reign over them. Though they won't recognize him (at this time) as Jesus, they will be welcome him as Davids lord... who is to rule over them. The birth of the man child is not his birth as a baby, he is being birthed as their rightful king. He has left the Father's side to rule in the midst of his enemies, to sit on David's throne. When (in Isa 66) it says, shall a nation be born in a day? The answer is no. For it says, shall I bring to birth and then shut the womb? No! No! No!. Zions children must be born too. The woman is Zion. The rest of her children will be born soon after!

"... for as soon as Zion (THE WOMAN) travailed, [giving birth to the man- child] she brought forth (the rest of) HER CHILDREN!

It is referring to the time when Israel's blindness shall end. The Deliverer shall come to Zion and turn away ungodliness from (the house of) Jacob.

Be Blessed
The PuP
The Jews become Christians in Revelation 12:10.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
 
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PesachPup

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The Jews become Christians in Revelation 12:10.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
How does the following scripture fit with your understanding of things?

Dan 2:44 KJV And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Does this not occur when the stone kingdom strikes the feet and toes (iron mixed with clay, i.e. the kingdom of the ten horns? ) of the great image?... in the days of these kings...?

Be Blessed
The PuP
 
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Douggg

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Dan 2:44 KJV And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Does this not occur when the stone kingdom strikes the feet and toes (iron mixed with clay, i.e. the kingdom of the ten horns? ) of the great image?... in the days of these kings...?
Yes, in the days of the ten kings, their kingdom of iron mixed with clay, the EU.
 
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Douggg

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The beast that comes out of the sea in Revelation 13 is the fourth kingdom that Daniel in Daniel 7, also saw coming out of the sea. The ten horns that Daniel saw in Daniel 7 on that beast kingdom are the same ten horns on the beast out of the sea kingdom in Revelation 13.

The mortally wounded but healed head of the seven heads on the beast out of the sea kingdom is the little horn person as he has become the beast-king, i.e. king of the Revelation 13 beast out of the sea kingdom.

The five evolving stages of the person....

the little horn (of Daniel 7, Daniel 8)
the prince that shall come (the Revelation 6:2 rider on the white horse messiah figure)
the Antichrist (the rider on the white horse given a crown - that as the king of Israel, perceived messiah)
the revealed man of sin (2Thessalonians2:4, killed for his audacious act, then comes back to life as >>>)
the beast-king (king of the Revelation 13 beast out of the sea kingdom)
 
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PesachPup

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The beast that comes out of the sea in Revelation 13 is the fourth kingdom that Daniel in Daniel 7, also saw coming out of the sea. The ten horns that Daniel saw in Daniel 7 on that beast kingdom are the same ten horns on the beast out of the sea kingdom in Revelation 13.

The mortally wounded but healed head of the seven heads on the beast out of the sea kingdom is the little horn person as he has become the beast-king, i.e. king of the Revelation 13 beast out of the sea kingdom.

The five evolving stages of the person....

the little horn (of Daniel 7, Daniel 8)
the prince that shall come (the Revelation 6:2 rider on the white horse messiah figure)
the Antichrist (the rider on the white horse given a crown - that as the king of Israel, perceived messiah)
the revealed man of sin (2Thessalonians2:4, killed for his audacious act, then comes back to life as >>>)
the beast-king (king of the Revelation 13 beast out of the sea kingdom)
There is a bit of ambiguity about Rev 13:3 about the mortal wounding of the beast. Is it just a man? Is it a man and a kingdom? Is it just a kingdom? Is there a resurrection? Or is there a deceitfulness to him not dying? The resurrection view leads to yours and similar views about his transformation. You should read other translations of that verse and see that it is not a clear cut view that he rises from death:

Revelation 13:3
BBE And I saw one of his heads as if it had been given a death-wound; and his death-wound was made well: and all the earth was wondering at the beast.
BSB One of the heads of the beast appeared to be mortally wounded. But the mortal wound was healed, and the whole world marveled and followed the beast.
EasyEnglish Someone had cut one of the strange animal’s heads. They had cut the animal so badly that it seemed to have died. But the strange animal had become well again and it was alive. This surprised all the people who were living on the earth. As a result, they thought that the strange animal was very great. They were ready to obey what it said.
ISV One of the beast’s heads looked like it had sustained a mortal wound, but its fatal wound was healed. Rapt with amazement, the whole world followed the beast.
KJV And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
NET One of the beast’s heads appeared to have been killed, but the lethal wound had been healed. And the whole world followed the beast in amazement;
NHEB One of his heads looked like it had been wounded fatally. His fatal wound was healed, and the whole earth was amazed and followed the beast.
WEB One of his heads looked like it had been wounded fatally. His fatal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled at the beast.

There is no further need to "spin" the interpretation of Daniel 7. 4 kings rise from the earth. That is the interpretation. Rising from the earth does not need further interpretation. The interpretation of the great sea is not the Mediterranean Sea. It is interpreted to mean the earth, being spelled out in the given interpretation.

There is no evolvement here. There is a reason why another king rises after him. He has been defamed and disfigured. I believe he is the same as the idle shepherd in Zechariah 11, where it says,

Zec 11:16-17 KJV 16 For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces. 17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

Notice what it says. He shall lose his RIGHT arm and his RIGHT eye shall be completely darkened. The perfection of his immortality shall be permanently disfigured. It's no wonder that Jesus said that it is better to lose your right arm or your right eye, that to retain them to be cast into the lake of fire.

Where does the 2nd beast (from the earth) require of the world to receive the mark of the beast? In your RIGHT hand or your forehead. It is a tribute and oath of allegiance to the 1st beast, who suffered such horrible fate.

I used to have uncertainties about the"death" of the 1st beast. But no more. Since I have come to understand what the 7 thunders represent, I now know [without any doubts] that this first beast comes on the scene as an immortal with the opening of the 1st Seal. He is Gog. That is his new name. I could make a strong case that he is probably Mohammed. From Eze 38 it says that Gog is the chief prince of Meschech and Tubal. You can look look this up for yourself, history bears record that the chief diety of Mecca, when Mohammed conquered that city was Hubal. And what does Hubal look like? An archer with arrows...arrows of fate! Mohammed (aka Gog) was the chief Prince of Mecca and tubal/hubal. How do Muslims like to kill their enemies? By beheading with a sword.
Also to note: From Zech 5, we see that two women (representing 2 cities) carries away the lead ephah to the land of Shinar, ala Babylon. There is one ephah, but two women. I believe the lead ephah is the Kaaba stone of Mecca, (and Medina). It will be carried away to Babylon at the time of the 2nd beast rising from the earth. It is there that the temple of God is to be built, as an enshrinement to the relocated Kaaba stone. It is there that the man of sin is revealed when he sits in the temple [of God!] shewing himself that he is God. Enough said there. But too many doctrinal roadblocks stand in the way for people to understand what the seven thunders represent.

Be Blessed anyhow,
The PuP
 
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Tigger Boy

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Revelation 13 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion:

According to Daniels visions these animals are - Greek empire , Media Persia and Babylon and all can be seen here in this picture of the Greek empire. However , Italy Rome and the Vatican are not in this prophetic picture , so where did I go wrong ?

View attachment 366023
Brain, To understand this sea beast, one must understand what earlier prophecies in Rev., reveal which forces it up out of the sea, or onto the worlds stage. Please consider the following.

The Beast from the Sea
{13:1} I saw the great red dragon standing on the shore of the sea, waiting for the day to arrive when he could once again, make war upon the remnant of the woman. As I watched, I saw a strange beast come up out of the sea. This beast looked similar to the great red dragon because it had the same seven heads and ten horns, but this beast had different body parts. This beast was a composite beast made up of three predators: A leopard, a bear, and a lion.

John does not attempt to explain how or why this beast appears. It just appears. John’s silence is not a problem because valid rules of interpretation reveal the purpose, origin, and identity of this beast. This beast represents a one-world-government that will form during the first four literal trumpets. (Rev. 8: 7-12)

Of course, today such a government is unthinkable, not even possible, but a crisis
of apocalyptic proportion is coming upon the whole world and this crisis has no comparison since Noah’s flood. God’s coming judgments will catch the world by complete surprise, and I suspect Brian you are unawares too. When the censer is cast down (Rev.8:2-5) and the first four trumpets sound, God’s judgments will reduce the whole world and its infrastructures to shambles. Twenty five percent of the world will perish and the ruins of thousands of cities will force world leaders to respond to a new reality. There is an Almighty God and He is very angry with the behavior of all mankind. Rising out of a “sea of humanity,” this composite beast represents mankind’s unified response to God’s wrath. The religious and political leaders of the world will unite out of fear and together they will create this monster-beast as the best possible solution to stop God’s wrath.

The first four trumpets will turn life on Earth upside down. Every nation will be overwhelmed with shock and awe. Political leaders (ten horns)will be filled with panic, and fearing more judgments will soon fall, they will turn to their clergy (seven heads) for a solution to appease God’s wrath. Religious leaders will conclude that given the universal scope of God’s anger, the best possible option will be to form one worldwide authority that can dictate to the nations what is “acceptable and unacceptable behavior” in God’s sight. Because the world is religiously diverse, solutions will be determined on a nation-by-nation basis. The religious leaders of the world will reason that if sinful behavior caused God’s wrath to occur, then corrective behavior should appease God and cause His wrath to cease.
You are troubled because the Vatican is not included in this prophecy as you understand it. However, that is not the case. The seven heads having blasphemous names are the seven base religions of the world, the one that has the deadly wound that will be healed before this beast appears on the earth is the Papacy. It received it's wound in 1798 when the pope was dethroned. Prior to that time, the papacy ruled over all the kings of Europe for 1260 years, (know as the Dark Ages) as prophecy foretold (Dan. 7:24,25)
 
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ViaCrucis

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Revelation 13 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion:

According to Daniels visions these animals are - Greek empire , Media Persia and Babylon and all can be seen here in this picture of the Greek empire. However , Italy Rome and the Vatican are not in this prophetic picture , so where did I go wrong ?

View attachment 366023

You didn't. Daniel's vision is about the successive foreign powers ruling over the land. The Macedonian Empire, the one depicted in that map, was divided among Alexander's generals after Alexander died. Hence why the feet of iron result in the ten toes of iron mixed with clay.

The king of the north which Daniel mentions is most likely Antioches IV Epiphanes, ruler of the Seleucids--one of the successor states of Alexander's empire. Daniel refers to the conflict between the Seleucid Syria and Ptolemaic Egypt, history knows these as the Syrian Wars. In the final war of that conflict, under Antiochus IV, Judea came under Seleucid control. Antiochus wanted to force hellenize everyone in his domain, and this meant a program of forced Hellenization on the Jews, resulting in oppression and repression of the Jews. For example circumcision was banned, Jews were forced to work on the Sabbath, and forced them to eat pork. But the straw that broke the camel's back was when Antiochus decided to have a pig sacrificed in the Holy of Holies in honor of Zeus, what Daniel refers to as the "desecrating sacrilege", or "abomination that causes desolation". This act was also the event which led to the Maccabean Revolt, where Judas Maccabee and his followers successfully were able to throw off the yolk of Seleucid tyranny and create a temporary independent Judea under the Hasmonean Dynasty--which lasted until the time of Julius Caesar. Caesar's friend Pompey subjugated much of the east, including Judea, the Hasmoneans were dethroned, and the Herodians who collaborated with the Romans were made the ruling dynasty of Judea, and under Antipater Judea become a client state of the Roman Republic (later the Roman Empire). The Herodians were Idumaeans, the Idumaeans converted to Judaism under the Hasmoneans--Idumea = Edom, just as a bonus bit of trivia.

Daniel doesn't talk about the Roman Empire, and it certainly has nothing to say about the Vatican, Roman Catholicism, etc. Daniel is concerned with several prophetic events: The return of the Jews from exile, for example speaking of Cyrus who decreed the Jews could return to their lands and rebuild Jerusalem and the Temple as "messiah the prince" (this is messiah with a small 'm' not Messiah with a capital 'M'). And with the events leading up to the Maccabean period.

What Daniel does see, however, is that the Son of Man will be brought up before the Ancient of Days and given an everlasting kingdom, this is the mountain the crushes all the empires of the world. This is about Jesus, Jesus calls Himself the Son of Man, and Jesus was quite truly taken up into the heavens at His ascension and enthroned as King Messiah, given a kingdom that can never pass away--seated at the right hand of the Father. This exaltation of the Messiah is what Paul is talking about also in Philippians 2 when he says that God exalted Jesus and gave Him the right hand of power so that every knee will bow and confess Jesus the Messiah is Lord. Jesus, as God the Son, has always been God and entirely glorious in His Divine power--the exaltation Paul speaks of is specifically the fulfillment of the promise and prophecies that the Son of David, the Messiah, would have an everlasting throne.

Now the thread title here refers not to the Macedonian Empire or the successor kingdoms; it refers to what St. John describes in his Apocalypse, in chapter 13 John beholds in his vision a beast that rises out of the seas. This beast is the beast who famously has a name that mathematically adds up to 666 (or 616 in some ancient variant manuscripts). The beast who rises out of the sea is most likely Nero, and John is using 666/616 (Nero's name can add up to either, depending or not if it's written in the Greek or Latin form, Neron vs Nero) as a cipher for his original audience (the seven churches in the Roman province of Asia) to be able to figure out who he means (he tells them, "let the one who has wisdom understand", meaning he assumes they should be able to figure it out). The primary context of the Apocalypse is the state of the seven churches in Asia, but also the wider situation that Church finds herself in as being present in a world full of hostile oppressive powers. But the Revelation isn't written to scare, but to proclaim hope--hope in the same Jesus who having risen from the dead "has the keys of death and Hades", as the Lamb seated on the throne, and whose kingdom destroys all earthly powers. Because this same Jesus will, one day, return as Judge and all powers and principalities are ultimately subject to him, even the great scourge of a persecuting Roman empire which is like a blood-drunk harlot riding upon a many-headed beast arrayed in the Imperial purple/crimson. So even though the direct and immediate context is Roman imperial power and the way it oppressed God's people, what John has written is relevant for all of us as we seek to follow Jesus in a world that is full of hostile powers, in a world that is fallen. As we look forward to the day when our Lord returns, judges the nations, and ultimately God makes all things new--World without end.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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