The Last Saints

[5thKingdom]

5thKingdom said:
Does the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast happen DURING Satan's binding or AFTER?
If you cannot answer this question then you cannot offer an "informed opinion" on the matter...
AND your answer must harmonize with Rev 9:1-2

Why only two options rather than 3? As if I'm going to choose one of those 2 options because there is not another option. Except there is another option---Does the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast happen BEFORE, DURING, or AFTER Satan's binding?

Because there are ONLY Four Beasts on earth... not Five or Six.
There is no (Biblical) reason for ever considering the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast
exists BEFORE the 1000 years... or even DURING the 1000 years.


Because the time AFTER Satan is released is also shown in Scripture as

(1) Daniel's Fourth Beast and
(2) the Revelation Beast and
(3) the Great Tribulation Kingdom and
(4) the RULE of the Anti-Christ
(5) DURING Satan's "Little Season" AFTER being released


This is called "harmony of Scripture"
that is the ONLY measure of Biblical Truth until He Returns.
The church has always understood this... is it "news" to you?


How in the world can you think you are qualified of capable of offering an "informed opinion"
on Daniel's Fourth Beast when you do not understand #1-5 above?
The answer is you cannot offer an "informed opinion"


I mean that with all due respect.
You simply do not understand the CONTEXT of the Fourth Beast.
You demonstrate that again and again.

Answer: BEFORE.

So you think the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast / Fourth Beast / Rule of the Anti-Christ DURING Satan's "Little Season"
happen BEFORE the "Little Season"... that's hilarious


That demonstrates again that you do not understand the CONTEXT of Daniel's Fourth Beat
It also shows you do not read Scripture carefully.


Scripture is clear the Great Commission continues until the "End of the Age" [Mat 28:18-20]
please address that reality


Scripture is clear that AFTER the Great Commission of the (3rd) Christian Kingdom
and AFTER the Last Saint has been "sealed' THEN the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast
arises.


Rev 7:1-3
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth,
that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east,
having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.


Rev 9:4
And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree;
but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.


In order for you to PRETEND the Great Tribulation and Revelation Beast
exists BEFORE Satan is bound you must INTENTIONALLY IGNORE related Scriptures like Rev 7 and Rev 9...
teaching Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast events happen AFTER Satan is released.


ONCE AGAIN we see the problem is you do not understand the Four Beasts do NOT include five or six Beasts.
ONCE AGAIN you want to talk about "Beasts" when you cannot even DEFINE what the word represents.
THAT is how ridiculous your comments are. Tell me sir... do you normally offer "informed opinions"
about words you cannot DEFINE... or is that practice limited to Bible Study?

Obviously, you yourself don't think this harmonizes with Revelation 9:1-2, because you, without a shred of proof, insist satan ascends out of the pit when it is opened during the 5th trumpet. That is adding to the text something not even remotely stated in the text.

LOL that is hilarious.
READ the text sir... WHEN does Satan get released?


Rev 9:1-2
And the FIFTH TRUMPET SOUNDED [that is the WHEN... during the 1st Woe],
and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
And he OPENED THE BOTTOMLESS PIT [during the FIFTH TRUMPET and the 1st Woe]; and there arose a smoke out of the pit,
as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.


Sir... this is Christian eschatology 101...
why in the world is it "news" to you.


YOU said Satan does NOT ascend out of the Pit at the 5th Trumpet
but that is EXACTLY what the TEXT says.
Read carefully.


AGAIN, it is very hard for me to take you seriously
when you do not understand the BASICS of eschatology
and you cannot even READ the text for comprehension.
How sad.

Nowhere in Revelation 9 does it say that satan ascends out of the pit when it is opened. But let's just pretend you are correct, regardless. How then do you explain that the reasons satan is loosed from the pit is not matching the reasons the pit is opened during the 5th trumpet?

Rev 9:1-2
And the FIFTH TRUMPET SOUNDED [that is the WHEN... during the 1st Woe],
and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
And he OPENED THE BOTTOMLESS PIT [during the FIFTH TRUMPET and the 1st Woe]; and there arose a smoke out of the pit,
as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.


If you cannot harmonize your "gospel" with Rev 9:1-2 then you can know absolutely
that your gospel is a false gospel.


But you MUST already know that since you cannot even DEFINE
the meaning of the words "Beast" and "Image" and "Mark"...
you want to talk about word you cannot DEFINE. LOL


You are unable to offer an "informed opinion" on ANY of the "Beasts"
so you are only pretending to yourself that you can harmonize ALL RELATED passages about the "Beasts"
In fact, you have a passage or two to "cling to" (all false doctrines agree with a passage or two)
but you cannot offer "harmony of Scripture" with ALL RELATED PASSAGES,
instead you must INTENTIONALLY IGNORE verses you do not like.
Sad


That is (and has always been) the "sign" of false doctrines...
surely you MUST realize that.


In any case, I think we are DONE.
You want to talk about words you cannot DEFINE
and you expect to be taken seriously. That is just a joke.


You do not talk about secular words you cannot DEFINE
so WHY do you think it's different talking about the spiritual?
You only kid yourself.


Good luck to you sir.


But make no mistake,
When the Lord Returns the Last Saints are NOT preaching the Gospel of the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom
and they are NOT preaching the Gospel of the (3rd) Christian Kingdom and they are NOT preaching
the Gospel of the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom.


Instead... when the Lord Returns the Last Saints are preaching the historical fulfillment of Great Tribulation prophecies
that JESUS PROMISED they "shall see ALL these things" [Mat 24:33] and the Last Saints are preaching Biblical mysteries
that GOD PROMISED would remained "closed-up" and "sealed" to all the Saints until the Last Saints "shall understand"
at the "Time-of-the-End" [Dan 12: 4 and 12:8-10]


Good bye.


/

 

[JulieB67]

So you think the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast / Fourth Beast / Rule of the Anti-Christ DURING Satan's "Little Season"
happen BEFORE the "Little Season"... that's hilarious

You and other Amils believe Satan has just one little season after the 1000 years. But he and his angels will be here before the 7th trump deceiving the nations into believing he's savior to the world. It will happen to one generation and Paul states one must have the full gospel armour on to be able to "stand" in that evil day. It's to fight the wiles (trickery) of the devil.

The notion that he is in the pit right now for the 1000 years so the nations cannot be deceived contradicts both Christ and Paul's warnings against just that -deception. Christ states that if someone states during that time, if they say Christ is here or there, don't believe it. But many will. That's what these verses are obviously about,

I Thessalonians 5:2 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

Thessalonians 5:3 "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

That's why Christ states watch because he comes at an hour most do not expect. Why is that? Because most of the world will have think he's already arrived. They will be thinking peace and safety. That's the analogy of the thief in the night -shock/suprise.

Who brings this false sense of peace and safety? Satan and his angels/beast system. They will be doing miracles in the sight of men, etc. Paul even states Satan is "disguised" as an angel of light. You don't don a disguise unless eyes will be on you.

And these verses also bring a huge contradiction to believing Satan only arrives one time after the 1000 years- When he's released out of the pit, this happens-

Revelation 20:8 "And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."

Revelation 20:9 "And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

The people are being gathered together to battle. They are not thinking peace and safety. But they will be when Christ returns.

Daniel 8:24 "And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy People."

Daniel 8:25 "And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand."

This will happen to one generation and one has to be prepared for this. That is why Christ and Paul give out very strict warnings on deception. He will sit on the throne proclaiming to be God and people will believe. That's why they are so shocked when the true Christ returns. Again, Christ states if one says Christ is here or there, don't believe it.


This the deception that Satan and his will bring upon the entire world. The only way one can overcome is this verse

Revelation 12:11 "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

When Satan is put in the pit (after the return of Christ in Rev 19) it's so he cannot deceive the nations anymore.

Revelation 20:3 "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

Satan will deceive the nations twice. Once before Christ's return when he/son of perdtion proclaims to be God and the second time after he's released to deceive the nations to gather them to battle.

 

[DavidPT]

Satan will deceive the nations twice. Once before Christ's return when he/son of perdtion proclaims to be God and the second time after he's released to deceive the nations to gather them to battle.

This of course is a good point. Which means initially he is deceiving the nations, then he quits deceiving the nations, then he deceives the nations yet again. Thus like you pointed out, he deceives the nations twice.

But let's assume Amil's are correct that the thousand years are before the 2nd coming, and that it represents the past 2000 years. As to nations being deceived during this 2000 years, would this be true or false? Undeniably, it would be true, unless one has lost all touch with reality and insist no nations have been deceived in the past 2000 years. What we then end up with, satan is deceiving the nations before the thousand years, during the thousand years, and after the thousand years. Which then doesn't add up to him deceiving the nations twice, which require that he has to take a break from doing it in order to do that twice. The break obviously meaning the thousand years.

Still assuming Amil's are correct that the thousand years are before the 2nd coming, Amil's then need to explain these---the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

The fact they are present after the thousand years obviously means they are present during the thousand years. Which could mean millions, maybe billions, the fact the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. Not meaning millions or billions of nations, but meaning millions or billions of ppl that these nations represent. And the fact they attack the camp of the saints after the thousand years, this indicates that they are not among any of the saved during the thousand years. The question is, still assuming Amil's are correct that the thousand years are before the 2nd coming, why would satan need to deceive someone that is already deceived during the thousand years, after the thousand years?

If the thousand years are after the 2nd coming, it would be impossible for one single person to still be deceived during the thousand years. Compare that to Amil's thousand years----the number of whom is as the sand of the sea are already deceived during the thousand years. Which then doesn't make sense that satan needs to deceive them after the thousand years if they are already deceived during the thousand years.

 

[5thKingdom]

You and other Amils believe Satan has just one little season after the 1000 years.

That is because the Bible only teaches there is ONE period when Satan is "bound" in the Pit for 1000 years.
Do you have SCRITURE that teaches Satan is "bound" for 1000 years and then he is "loosened"...
only to be "bound" in the Pit again... and then "loosened" from the Pit a second time.


I would LOVE to see such Scripture... but it does not exist.


I invite you to prove me wrong...
Show Satan being "bound" then "loosened" and then "bound" again... and "loosened" again.
That is hilarious.

But he and his angels will be here before the 7th trump deceiving the nations into believing he's savior to the world.

Yes, the Bible does teach Satan will be here (ruling) BEFORE the 7th Trumpet.
The Bible teaches Satan was "bound" at the Cross and he remains "bound" throughout the Great Commission
of the (3rd) Christian Kingdom... until the "End of the Age" [Mat 28:18-20]


THEN (after the "End of the Age") and AFTER the Great Commission is complete and the Last Saint is "sealed" [Rev 7:1-3]
Satan is "loosened" from the Bottomless Pit [Rev 9:1-2] to RULE during the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]
... which is also called:

(1) Daniel's Fourth Beast and
(2) the Revelation Beast and
(3) the RULE of the Anti-Christ DURING
(4) Satan's "Little Season" AFTER being released from the Pit.


The Bible is very clear.... Satan is "bound" one time
Satan is "loosened" at the beginning of the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast [Rev 9:1-2]
Satan is DESTROYED at the END of the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast [Rev 20:10]


You have ZERO passages that show otherwise.
You must ADD to Scripture to create a doctrine of Satan being "bound" and released SEVERAL TIMES...
and you make a JOKE about the NATURE of the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast where Satan RULES over the Last Saints.

The notion that he is in the pit right now for the 1000 years so the nations cannot be deceived contradicts both Christ and Paul's warnings against just that -deception. Christ states that if someone states during that time, if they say Christ is here or there, don't believe it. But many will. That's what these verses are obviously about,

That is because you have ADDED your "feelings" to the meaning of "the nations cannot be deceived".


That phrase does NOT mean that NOBODY on earth can be deceived (you have ADDED that notion)
The phrase simply means that Satan cannot prevent the Great Commission from "finding and saving"
ALL of "His Sheep"... it means that Jesus will lose NONE of His elect.


This is Christian theology 101... why is it "news" to you?

I Thessalonians 5:2 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

Thessalonians 5:3 "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

Yes... the "Day of the Lord" comes as a "thief in the night" to the unsaved
But that does not prove your point IN THE SLIGHTEST


It only proves what the Bible teaches in many places...
the Last Saints will NOT be surprised at His Return, they will be "watching" for Him
Are you not aware of this Biblical doctrine?


Luk 12:36-38
And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding;
that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. Blessed are those servants,
whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit
down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch,
and find them so, blessed are those servants.


The Bible teaches the Great Tribulation (Revelation Beast) includes four "watches of the night".
And the Last Saints are "watching" for the Lord DURING those four "watches"...
BLESSED (saved) are the Last Saints "watching" during that time...
which is DURING the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom.


So your "proof" Scriptures mean nothing.
The do not prove anything except the Last Saints will be "watching"
during the four "watches" of the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom....
the Kingdom AFTER the Church Age and BEFORE the Lord Returns
to establish the (5th) Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven" at the 7th Trump.

Revelation 20:8 "And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."

Revelation 20:9 "And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

Yes... these events happen DURING the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]
which is also called:


(1) Daniel's Fourth Beast
(2) the Revelation Beast
(3) the RULE of the Anti-Christ DURING
(4) Satan's "Little Season" AFTER being released from the Pit


Your "proof texts" only show the Fourth Beast on earth... the Revelation Beast of the Great Tribulation
... which occurs immediately AFTER the Great Commission is finished and AFTER the Last Saint has been "sealed"...
The Bible is clear about this... AFTER the Last Saint of the Church Age has been "sealed"... the Great Tribulation BEGINS


Rev 7:1-3
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth,
that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east,
having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.


Rev 9:4
And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree;
but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Daniel 8:24 "And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy People."

Daniel 8:25 "And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand."

You have quoted two verses without even understanding the CONTEXT of those verses!!!
Why in the world would you post verses without understanding WHEN they occur...
or WHO is represented?


The CONTEXT of those verses is events happening as the Anti-Christ ("Little Horn", "False Prophet" and "Man of Sin")
RULES over the Saints DURING the Fourth Beast - the Revelation Beast - the Great Tribulation - Satan's "Little Season"


Your "proof texts" actually prove your doctrine is false because those SCRIPTURES
represent the time AFTER the Great Commission if complete and the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast arises.

When Satan is put in the pit (after the return of Christ in Rev 19) it's so he cannot deceive the nations anymore.

Dear girl... you have NO IDEA what Rev 19 teaches.
It represents the "Final Harvest" of the Last Saints JUST BEFORE Satan is destroyed at the END of the Great Tribulaton.


Here are five (5) passages that demonstrate the SAME EVENT... the "Final Harvest" of Great Tribulation Saints
JUST BEFORE the Fourth Beast is destroyed [Rev 19:20] and JUST BEFORE Satan is destroyed [Rev 20:10]...
please notice that Rev 19 harmonizes with the other four SCRIPTURES about this "Final Harvest"...
and please notice the TIMING of this event is just before the 2nd Woe ends.
That is important to understand.


Again, this is information that remained “closed-up” and “sealed” until the Last Saints “shall understand” during
the “Time-of-the-End”. [Dan 12:8-10] The Lord has PROMISED the Last Saints “shall see all of these things” which
He foretold about the Great Tribulation and/or Revelation Beast. [Mat 24: 15, 33] This is just part of the “mysteries”
God has PROMISED the Last Saints would preach – as the Seventh Trumpet “begins to sound”. [Rev 10:7-11]
In fact, the Bible contains several passages related to this event… the “Final Harvest” of “Wise Virgins”.


(1) In Matthew 25 destruction of the Fourth Kingdom of "Babylon the Great" is shown [v.10] when the "Door was Shut".
The "Final Harvest" of the “Wise Virgins” is shown [v.10] as they are taken into the "Marriage" saying;
"they that were ready went in with Him to the Marriage: and the Door was Shut".


(2) In Revelation 18 the destruction of the Fourth Kingdom is shown [v.2] as "Babylon the Great is fallen, is fallen".
The "Final Harvest" of “Wise Virgins”, immediately before the destruction of Babylon, is shown [v.4] as the Lord Commands
the Last Saints to "Come out of her, My people". And the Last Saints are told [v.20] to "rejoice"
over the destruction of Babylon for "God hath avenged you on her".


(3) In Revelation 19 the destruction of Babylon is shown [v.20] as the False Prophet and Revelations Beast are
"cast alive" into the eternal "Lake-of-Fire". The "Final Harvest" immediately before destruction of the "great harlot"
[v.2] is shown as the Saints are commanded [v.17] to "gather yourselves together unto the SUPPER of the Great God”.
Then [v.9] the "Final Harvest" is shown when the Saints are "called unto the MARRIAGE SUPPER of the Lamb".
Again we see, [v.2] when God destroys the Kingdom of "Babylon" He also "hath avenged the blood of His servants".
This FULFILLS a promise God made to earlier Saints – in completion of the Fifth Seal [Rev 6:9-11]. This is important!


(4) In Revelation 11 the destruction of Babylon is shown [v.13] as a "great earthquake", and the "Final Harvest"
is shown [v.12] as the Last Saints are commanded to "Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud".
Again the "Final Harvest" is shown occurring immediately before destruction of the Fourth Beast. However, this time,
the Bible reveals [v.14] the TIMING of this event – it is just before the end of the "Second Woe"... that is important.


(5) In Daniel 7 the destruction of the Fourth Beast is shown [v.11] when "the Beast was slain, and his body destroyed,
and given to the Burning Flame". The "Final Harvest" of Saints is shown [v.18] as "the Saints of the Most High shall
take the Kingdom, and possess the Kingdom forever, even for ever and ever". Again, the "Final Harvest" is shown
[v.22] when "Judgment was given to the Saints of the Most High; and the time came that the Saints possessed the
Kingdom". In Daniel 7 the Bible actually reveals the NAME of this period on earth after the "Final Harvest",
after destruction of the Fourth Beast. The Bible [Dan 7:11-12] specifically names this period the "Season and Time".
Here we see the “Time-of-the-End” is also shown as the “Season and Time” after the Fourth Beast is destroyed.4


-----------


The Bible is very clear about the chronology of the History of Man


First there is the (1st) Pre-Flood Kingdom
Then there is the (2nd) Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" specifically NAMED by Jesus [Mat 22:]
Then there is the (3rd) Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" specifically NAMED by Jesus [Mat 13, in 7 verses]
Then there is the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" specifically NAMED by Jesus [Mat 25:1]
Then there is the (5th) Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven" specifically NAMED by Jesus in many verses.


That COMPLETES the History of Man... and the Eternal Kingdom


The History of Man does NOT include SIX or SEVEN "Beasts"
as Satan is "bound" several times and "loosened" several times...
you have ADDED those theories because you have failed to understand
the chronology of Man as REVEALED in Daniel's Four Beasts/Kingdoms.


And your misunderstanding is expected (although it contradicts the "traditional" church doctrines)
because the Bible PROMISES the Truth about the Four Kingdoms on earth would remain "closed-up" and "sealed"
to all the Saints until the Last Saints "shall understand" at the "Time-of-the-End" [Dan 12:4 and 12:8-10]


Make no mistake,
When the Lord Returns the Last Saints are NOT preaching the Gospel of the (1st) Pre-Flood Kingdom and
they are NOT preaching the Gospel of the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom, and they are NOT preaching the Gospel
of the (3rd) Great Commission of the Christian Kingdom and they are NOT preaching the Gospel of the
(4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom.


Instead...
When the Lord Returns the Last Saints are preaching the historical fulfillment of Great Tribulation prophecies
that JESUS PROMISED they "shall see ALL of these things" [Mat 24:33] and they are preaching Biblical mysteries
that GOD PROMISED would remain "closed-up" and "sealed" to all the Saints until the Last Saints "shall understand"
during the period specifically NAMED the "Time-of-the-End" [Dan 12:4 and 12:8-10]


/

 

[DavidPT]

I invite you to prove me wrong...
Show Satan being "bound" then "loosened" and then "bound" again... and "loosened" again.
That is hilarious.

What in the world are you talking about? Talk about a perfect example of a straw man argument, then ridiculing one's opponent by implying that this has to be their position in order for their position to be correct, that this is hilarious. If it was true, it would be hilarious no doubt. Except it's not true. Obviously, both Amil and Premil can't be true. You are reasoning this as if it might be possible that Premils believe both Amil and Premil can be true. Why else would you be asking this? Per Amil nor per Premil does it ever involve "Satan is "bound" for 1000 years and then he is "loosened"...only to be "bound" in the Pit again... and then "loosened" from the Pit a second time".

Amils certainly don't believe that nor would I ever think that they might believe that. Why then would you think Premils might believe that, or that Premils need to produce Scripture that teach satan is bound a thousand years, then loosed, then bound a thousand years again, then loosed again, in order for Premil to be a correct position? I can't even believe something like that crossed your mind to begin with, or anyone's mind for that matter. Talk about something hilarious, LOL, that something like this would come to one's mind to begin with. I needed a good laugh for the day if nothing else, I guess.

That aside, it is still obvious to me as why, and that being that you were setting up a straw man then finding it hilarious, when the only thing hilarious about it is you. For someone that is supposed to be one of the last saints that understand things, you sure have a way of belittling those that don't accept some or all of what you are teaching. Even though you do seem to enjoy belittling your opponents, most of us don't see you as all that important that we might be bothered by that. You are no better than anyone else on this board, though you apparently see yourself above most of us.

Even if you are correct about some or all of these things you teach, though I doubt that you are, the manner in which you teach does not draw others to your teachings, it pushes them away. Maybe you should consider getting off your high horse before you feel you can teach others anything one way or the other.

 

[JulieB67]

That is because the Bible only teaches there is ONE period when Satan is "bound" in the Pit for 1000 years.
Do you have SCRITURE that teaches Satan is "bound" for 1000 years and then he is "loosened"...
only to be "bound" in the Pit again... and then "loosened" from the Pit a second time.

Satan is only bound one time for a 1000 years in the pit.

But when he first deceives the nations he is cast down from Heaven. Revelation 12 covers past and future and the end of the chapter Satan is cast down with his angels. We aren't talking about a past event, this is future. It's the blood of Christ and their testimony that's helps them overcome. So we are definitely talking future.

These are clearly two different events

Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Mi'cha-el and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,,"

When Michael stands up, it's time.

Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."

Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Sa'-tan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Revelation 12:10 "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."

He's not in a pit right now with a seal. He's accusing the brethren day and night before God.

Revelation 12:11 "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

Full gospel armour on. Again, not past, they overcame him by the blood of the lamb.

Revelation 12:12 "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

He knows the time has been shortened as Christ promised it would be.


Revelation 12:13 "And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child."

There's nothing about him being in the pit at this point in time. Christ returns in 19 and see see that the beast and FP are thrown into the Lake of Fire. Then in 20:4 we see the the souls that did not fall for the beast system and then Satan is locked into the pit for a 1000 years.

When he's released, he's not fighting Michael he is simply released from the pit.


"Revelation 20:3 "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."


Revelation 20:7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison."



Again, the end of Revelation 12 is future and it shows him being cast down after the battle with Michael. Obviously you read this differently as do many others. We all have our beliefs on how things will go down.

The History of Man does NOT include SIX or SEVEN "Beasts"
as Satan is "bound" several times and "loosened" several times...
you have ADDED those theories because you have failed to understand

Not once have I ever said or added any of that to my posts. You keep putting words into my posts that I have not stated.

 

[JulieB67]

why would satan need to deceive someone that is already deceived during the thousand years, after the thousand years?

Good point!

 

[5thKingdom]

What in the world are you talking about? Talk about a perfect example of a straw man argument,

Sir, if I have not correctly understood your chronology about the History of Man
it is because I have asked you to provide it and you have not.

We know the Pre-Flood Kingdom existed
We know the Jewish Age existed
We know the Christian Age existed
We know the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast follows the Church Age

Do you agree with that?

What do you think happens AFTER the Church Age?

If you will simply provide a chronology...
then I will not have to GUESS about your theories.


Jim


.

 

[5thKingdom]

DavidPT said:
why would satan need to deceive someone that is already deceived during the thousand years, after the thousand years?

Good point!

No, it is not a "good point" because it ASSUMES too much


Please help me to understand your chronology


We know there was a (1st) Pre-Flood Beast
And we know there was a (2nd) Jewish Beast and
We know there was a (3rd) Christian Beast during the Great Commission
And we know there is a (4th) Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast


(1) Now... the "traditional" church understanding is the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast happens
immediately AFTER the Church Age (or at the END of the Church Age)


Do you agree with #1 or not?


If not please EXPLAIN what happens at the end of the Great Commission... after the Last Saint is "sealed" [Rev 7:1-3]
WHEN in history is Satan "bound" and WHEN is he released for his "Little Season"?
And are their additional "binding"... or did I misunderstand you eschatology?


Maybe if you EXPLAIN your chronology
I can understand your theory about eschatology


Thank you

 

[5thKingdom]

The History of Man does NOT include SIX or SEVEN "Beasts"
as Satan is "bound" several times and "loosened" several times...
you have ADDED those theories because you have failed to understand

Satan is only bound one time for a 1000 years in the pit.

Please help me to understand your chronology


We know there was a (1st) Pre-Flood Beast
And we know there was a (2nd) Jewish Beast and
We know there was a (3rd) Christian Beast during the Great Commission
And we know there is a (4th) Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast


(1) Now... the "traditional" church understanding is the Great Tribulation / Revelation Beast happens
immediately AFTER the Church Age (or at the END of the Church Age)


Do you agree with #1 or not?


If not please EXPLAIN what happens at the end of the Great Commission... after the Last Saint is "sealed" [Rev 7:1-3]
WHEN in history is Satan "bound" and WHEN is he released for his "Little Season"?
And are their additional "binding"... or did I misunderstand you eschatology?


Maybe if you EXPLAIN your chronology
I can understand your theory about eschatology


Thank you

/

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Re:12:17:
And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
which keep the commandments of God,
and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

'The remnant' are the two witnesses only:
Re:11:3-14:
And I will give power unto my two witnesses,
and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days,
clothed in sackcloth.
These are the two olive trees,
and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Zec:4:2-4:
And said unto me,
What seest thou?
And I said,
I have looked,
and behold a candlestick all of gold,
with a bowl upon the top of it,
and his seven lamps thereon,
and seven pipes to the seven lamps,
which are upon the top thereof:
And two olive trees by it,
one upon the right side of the bowl,
and the other upon the left side thereof.
So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me,
saying,
What are these, my lord?

Zec:4:11-14:
Then answered I,
and said unto him,
What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
And I answered again,
and said unto him,
What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
And he answered me and said,
Knowest thou not what these be?
And I said,
No,
my lord.
Then said he,
These are the two anointed ones,
that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.

Da:11:32:
And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries:
but the people that do know their God shall be strong,
and do exploits.
Da:7:25:
And he shall speak great words against the most High,
and shall wear out the saints of the most High,
and think to change times and laws:
and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

This references the 3 1/2 days they are dead.

 

[5thKingdom]

Re:12:17:
And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
which keep the commandments of God,
and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

'The remnant' are the two witnesses only:
Re:11:3-14:
And I will give power unto my two witnesses,
and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days,
clothed in sackcloth.
These are the two olive trees,
and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Zec:4:2-4:
And said unto me,
What seest thou?
And I said,
I have looked,
and behold a candlestick all of gold,
with a bowl upon the top of it,
and his seven lamps thereon,
and seven pipes to the seven lamps,
which are upon the top thereof:
And two olive trees by it,
one upon the right side of the bowl,
and the other upon the left side thereof.
So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me,
saying,
What are these, my lord?

Zec:4:11-14:
Then answered I,
and said unto him,
What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
And I answered again,
and said unto him,
What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
And he answered me and said,
Knowest thou not what these be?
And I said,
No,
my lord.
Then said he,
These are the two anointed ones,
that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.

Da:11:32:
And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries:
but the people that do know their God shall be strong,
and do exploits.
Da:7:25:
And he shall speak great words against the most High,
and shall wear out the saints of the most High,
and think to change times and laws:
and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

This references the 3 1/2 days they are dead.

What do you hope to do by posting TONS of passages with no comment?

Cutting-and-Pasting passages without comment is NOT having a "discussion".
And it is NOT addressing the OP of this thread.


/

 

[Wayne Gabler]

What do you hope to do by posting TONS of passages with no comment?

Cutting-and-Pasting passages without comment is NOT having a "discussion".
And it is NOT addressing the OP of this thread.


/

Which Bible did this come from?
'The remnant' are the two witnesses only:

The passages are there to show the context is what I am claiming it to be. The 1611KJV is the Bible I use, not many use it so I post the text I am reading. Along with that, some people are just lazy to look up the references on their own. having it as part of the post cuts the time down as much as possible.
Don't all Christians do that?
Back to Scripture or do you want to chat some more?

The two witnesses are the last saints that give up their lives in the service of God from Ge:1:1. The people in this prophecy are named people in the Bible that died because of their devotion to God:

Re:6:9-11:
And when he had opened the fifth seal,
I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God,
and for the testimony which they held:
And they cried with a loud voice,
saying,
How long,
O Lord,
holy and true,
dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
And white robes were given unto every one of them;
and it was said unto them,
that they should rest yet for a little season,
until their fellowservants also and their brethren,
that should be killed as they were,
should be fulfilled.
Re:11:7:
And when they shall have finished their testimony,
the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them,
and shall overcome them,
and kill them.

Re:11:12:
And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them,
Come up hither.
And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud;
and their enemies beheld them.

Together, they watch Jesus destroy the city below them. The 144,000 watch all from from the Matt:17 mountain top. (when the two witnesses are dead)
Peter and Paul would be there, the writer of Revelation would have died of old-age.

 

[Jipsah]

Matthew 7:15-20

Yeah, the phrase "my gospel" has a nasty ring to it, doesn't it?

 

[Jipsah]

You are not REJECTING my words... you are REJECTING Scripture.

Nah, I'm pretty sure it's your words, and your, shall we say novel interpretations of Scripture.

You've proclaimed yourself a "Last Saint", and thus your interpretations of Scripture are infallibly correct. So it follows that those who think "Your Gospel" is grossly eisegetic codswallop are not Last Saints, and therefore can't understand Scripture at all. So in effect you have declared yourself and any (in the unlikely event that there are any) who share your unique take on prophecy the only ones qualified to say what Scripture really means.

So yeah, most of us reject your gospel as self-aggrandizing rubbish, and that, sirrah, is a clear and distinct rejection of your words and not any rejection of the actual Gospel of Christ.

 

[Jipsah]

Sir, please tell me what I said to make you think I am a false Christ?

The "My Gospel" nonsense is sufficient evidence for me.

 

[Timtofly]

Tribulation Saints are The Last Saints

After all believers in Christ are raptured away to heaven, the people who come to faith in Christ will become what is commonly called tribulation saints. The Bible predicts that a huge number of people will be saved during the tribulation hour. Rev 7:9 describes the number as a “great multitude, which no man could number.”

The Bible repeatedly states that tribulation saints will face a strong likelihood of being martyred under the Antichrist’s demonic rule. The reason why they are called tribulation saints is because most of them will have to pay the ultimate price for their faith. There are several passages that warn how rough it will be for Christians to endure the tribulation:

“And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations” (Rev 13:7).

“He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints” (Rev 13:10).

“And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed” (Rev 13:15).

“Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; and their works do follow them” (Rev 14:12-13).

“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years” (Rev 20:4).

Those are not tribulation saints.

Those are the ones who chop their heads off to avoid the mark, during the 42 months of AoD.

 

[BillCody]

Those are the ones who chop their heads off to avoid the mark, during the 42 months of AoD.

No
The antichrist is the one ordering their heads be chopped off because they have rejected him as the messiah and they have accept Jesus as Messiah.
No one seems to understand the purpose of Revelation. It's God's judgement against a world that has rejected His Son Jesus Christ as Messiah.
Do we need to be here because of that? No, we have accepted Jesus as Messiah and Savior. This judgement is against His enemies and to setup His reign as King of Kings on earth. The Kingdom of God on planet earth. Just like the Jews were lead out of Egypt after passover to go to the promised land. So will the true church of Jesus Christ leave this earth for Heaven to stay until the the end of the tribulation. Then He will fulfill His promises to the Jewish people in the Millennium.

 

[5thKingdom]

Those are not tribulation saints.
Those are the ones who chop their heads off to avoid the mark, during the 42 months of AoD.

Except Daniel 8 PROMISES the Abomination of Desolation last 2300 days (literally "evenings/mornings")
so the BIBLE destroys your "theory" about 42 months.

Deal with Scripture:


Dan 8:13-14
Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake,
How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation,
to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? [what is the DURATION of AOD?]
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.


How is it that you do not harmonize Daniel 8 into your theories?
Do you REJECT the Word of God.

BTW... the Great Tribulation or Revelation Beast is shown as:
3.5 "times" and 3.5 "days" and 3.5 years (your 42 months)
and 3.5 "watches of the night"

It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to understand the TRUTH about Daniel's AOD
when you intentionally ignore ALL RELATED passages.
That is how "Bible Study" works...
Is this "news" to you?

/

 

[5thKingdom]

No one seems to understand the purpose of Revelation. It's God's judgement against a world that has rejected His Son Jesus Christ as Messiah.

Not at all...
the PURPOSE of the Revelation Beast
is to RULE over the Last Saints, living in the Great Tribulation.

The PURPOSE of the Revelation Beast or Great Tribulation is for Satan to attack the Last Saints.
Deal with Scripture instead of your "feelings"


Rev 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Dan 7:21-22
I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High;
and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.


This is not hard
You only need to find "harmony of Scripture"


/