The Known Facts

[JGG]

I believe in a two fold attonement. God is reconciling us with Himself and He is reconciling us with each other. Faith and love work together. You can not have love without faith and you can not have faith without love.

Christians are united by the love of God, it is not always their doctrine that will cause them to be united.

Okay...Let me put it this way. If you believe in OEC, and other Christians believe in YEC, and both views are based on information from the bible...how can the bible be 100% reliable? The bible has lead someone to an incorrect conclusion.

Do you see what I'm getting at with these questions? This thread is called "The Known Facts" but most of the facts you have presented are far from objective, and therefore can only be called beliefs. Do you understand what I'm getting at?

 

[JohnR7]

Again, fair enough. But are you suggesting that the Holy Spirit is interpreting the bible for you, but not for these other Christians?

The same holy spirit that is working in me is working in them. It is not always easy to hear from God, it takes fasting, prayer and living in the word of God. It is a lot easier to hear from God when your tummy is empty, then what it is when your tummy is full. It is a question if we are willing to pay the price to get the results.

Deut. 4:29
But from there you will seek the Lord your God, and you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Here is another rock solid promise from God. If you seek Him with all your heart and all your soul you will find Him. People who do not know God, simply do not want to know God. They are not seeking to know God.

 

[JGG]

Here is another rock solid promise from God. If you seek Him with all your heart and all your soul you will find Him. People who do not know God, simply do not want to know God. They are not seeking to know God.

Yes, but if I want to see a pink elephant in front of me enough, I'll see that too.

 

[dlamberth]

I already told you, science had nothing to offer me.

Including the computer your using right now?

.

 

[JohnR7]

Okay...Let me put it this way. If you believe in OEC, and other Christians believe in YEC, and both views are based on information from the bible...how can the bible be 100% reliable?

Because they are both true. OEC and YEC are both true and I believe both of them. The Bible is 100% reliable because God watchs over it to perform it. He watches over what I say also and because of this I need to be very careful what I say.

2 Chron. 16:9a
For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to show Himself strong on behalf of those whose heart is loyal to Him.

 

[JGG]

Because they are both true. OEC and YEC are both true and I believe both of them. The Bible is 100% reliable because God watchs over it to perform it. He watches over what I say also and because of this I need to be very careful what I say.

So is the the Earth older than 6,000 years, or no? Or put another way, how do you reconcile the discrepancies?

 

[JohnR7]

Including the computer your using right now?

What good would the computer be if I were dead or brain damaged in a coma somewhere? If God had not healed me then the computer would be worthless to me. Science did all they could do. The paramedics did all they could do for me, the nurses and the doctors did all they could do for me. In the end it was God that healed me and brought me out of that coma.

 

[JohnR7]

So is the the Earth older than 6,000 years, or no? Or put another way, how do you reconcile the discrepancies?

Yes, the earth we live in is 6,000 years old. There was also an old earth that was here before. The old world came to a end around 12,000 years ago and the new world came into being. What people do not realize is how much of a extinction there was at the end of the last ice age. They do not realize how much of a new world we live in.

 

[JohnR7]

Yes, but if I want to see a pink elephant in front of me enough, I'll see that too.

Like this:

 

[JGG]

Basically

 

[JGG]

Yes, the earth we live in is 6,000 years old. There was also an old earth that was here before. The old world came to a end around 12,000 years ago and the new world came into being. What people do not realize is how much of a extinction there was at the end of the last ice age. They do not realize how much of a new world we live in.

Interesting?

Where did the old world go?
What existed in the 6000 year gap?
What about the rest of the Universe? YEC's claim its 6,000 old too.

 

[JohnR7]

Interesting?Where did the old world go?

Mostly underwater, with the global warming a lot of the ice melted and a lot of the land was flooded.

What existed in the 6000 year gap?

That was a transition period. At around 12,000 years ago, you have hunter gathers. Then about 6,000 years ago, you have people who are farming and hurding animals. That changed seemed to take place over a 6,000 year period of time. They say that civilization and the beginning of cities did not happen all at once, but was more of a gradual change over time.

What about the rest of the Universe? YEC's claim its 6,000 old too.

Is that in the Bible somewhere? There are a lot of YEC beliefs. Some believe a day is a literal 24 hours, other believe a day is 1000 years. Not all YEC's get along with each other. They have different beliefs.

 

[Lord_Marx]

Is JohnR7 pulling a "dad"?

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Yes, but if I want to see a pink elephant in front of me enough, I'll see that too.

can you really?
sit there and desire to see a pink elephant in front of you.
did it happen?
if so, you have remarkable control over your visual nervous system, most people can't do that.

we can imagine a pink elephant before us, or talk about what if a pink elephant was sitting in the corner, but rare is the individual who can actually make their eyes see one.

 

[KittyPryde]

Is JohnR7 pulling a "dad"?

I don't think so. John's beliefs stated here seem to be much more based on reality.
I often have trouble following Dad. Without motion sickness pills, I usually need to quit reading after two pages of his posts.

 

[Freodin]

Johnny, you are aware that there is a Christian-only board for "Origin Theology" on this Forum?

If you want everyone to agree that "God did it", that´s the place for you.

Here in the Open to All Members Section you will find a lot of people who disagree with you on this "known fact".

The reason why the do might be that it is not a "know fact", but a basic assumption for intra-christian debates. A basic assumption that is NOT made by non-Christians, especially Atheists.

Nice try to define your position as true, though. I´ll give you an 8.5

 

[JohnR7]

Johnny, you are aware that there is a Christian-only board for "Origin Theology" on this Forum?

Actually, if I post on another board it is usually one of the boards were people are asking for help to receive what God wants and has for them. It is one thing to talk about it, but the real challange is to live the christian life and to receive all God's provision.

 

[JohnR7]

I don't think so. John's beliefs stated here seem to be much more based on reality.

Actually, there is a lot of scientific evidence for the Bible and the things we read in the Bible. I really do believe that science can help us to better understand the word of God and it's meaning for us today.

 

[Valkhorn]

Actually, there is a lot of scientific evidence for the Bible and the things we read in the Bible.

Well, when are you going to post any?

 

[Asimov]

There seems to be a misunderstanding with the evolutionists as to what the known facts are here on this forum. First of all, it is a known fact that God created the universe that we live in. If you do not believe God created the universe, then perhaps you would like to discuss that on the apologist board. There is no reason to duplicate their efforts here on this board. Second of all, it is a known fact that the Bible is inspired by God and 100% relyable and dependable.

Glaring contradiction, John...facts are true and verifiable as such.