The Eternality of Hell

[Edmond Smith]

"At that time - referes to the events predicted in the previous paragraph (not shown; 11:36-45) which details the antichrist's furious attempt to destroy and annihilate the Jewish people (11:44).
Then the archangel Michael who stands watch over the Jewish people will rise to their defense to preserve them. This will be be necessary because the great tribulation (the second half of Daniels seventieth week: Dan 9:27) will be a time of unprecedented trouble. Despite the horrific nature of the persecution of Israel, the result will be that the surviving remnant of the Jewish nation will turn in faith to their Messiah Jesus (Zech 12:10; Rom 11:25-27) and He will deliver them. He will deliver them. The book refers to the heavenly Book of Life in which the names of the elect are listed (Ps 69:28; Php 4:3; Rev. 13:8;17:8;20:15)"

So would you say that Daniel 11-12 is also dual prophecy?
I would say Daniel 11 has already occured.
In Romans 9-11, Paul confirms that a remant of the believing Jews have been saved.

Okay, a little History lesson...LOL.
I'll make it quick.
Verses 1 - 10 Are about the those who ruled: Cabyses, pseudo,smendius and Darius Hyataspes...Xerses...then Alexander the Great....after Him comes Ptolemy, Then Berenice the daughter of Ptolemy and the king of the North Antiochus, met and make an agreement in ref to Judea. Then Berenice and her son Laodice are murdered and then vengeance was taken by a General named Evergetes. Then steps in Antiochus III.
The King of The South Ptolemy III and the King of the North Antiochus III. Do their thing...vaguely mentioned. But Atiochus ends up being subdued, given up to licentiousness.

verse 15 Speaks of Antiochus III (the great) Da 11:16-19 describes his doings which is a foreshadowing of his antitype, "the little horn" The yet future antichrist, described in Da 11:21; 12:1, which show how the latter portion can be fulfilled by an individual.

verse 16 Another foreshadowing, but not exhausting what is said of "the vile person" Da 21:36

verse 17-19Ptolemy V meets and corrupts his own daughter of seven, Cleopatra. then a new prince steps in Lucius Scipio. Who defeats Antiochus III and makes him to withdraw to Syria.

Verse 20, One named Seleucus causes a tax collector named Heliodocus to pass through Judea and plunder the temple. Believe He was poisoned, because He didn't destroyed neither in anger or in battle.

Verse 20. Is the end of the Historical Portion. All of this has been fulfilled by now. It was the future at the time of the writing.

Verse 21 Passes on to the time which is still to come (the future for us). He begins the portion of this prophecy which is future to us "the latter days"

So, Yes, a portion has been fulfilled. The Rest vv 21 -45 are about the future. To them and to us. These have not been fulfilled.

Hope you can read that. It's a breakdown of the visions that relate to "the time of the end"

 

[Edmond Smith]

"At that time - referes to the events predicted in the previous paragraph (not shown; 11:36-45) which details the antichrist's furious attempt to destroy and annihilate the Jewish people (11:44).
Then the archangel Michael who stands watch over the Jewish people will rise to their defense to preserve them. This will be be necessary because the great tribulation (the second half of Daniels seventieth week: Dan 9:27) will be a time of unprecedented trouble. Despite the horrific nature of the persecution of Israel, the result will be that the surviving remnant of the Jewish nation will turn in faith to their Messiah Jesus (Zech 12:10; Rom 11:25-27) and He will deliver them. He will deliver them. The book refers to the heavenly Book of Life in which the names of the elect are listed (Ps 69:28; Php 4:3; Rev. 13:8;17:8;20:15)"

So would you say that Daniel 11-12 is also dual prophecy?
I would say Daniel 11 has already occured.
In Romans 9-11, Paul confirms that a remant of the believing Jews have been saved.

Okay, a little History lesson...LOL.
I'll make it quick.
Verses 1 - 10 Are about the those who ruled: Cabyses, pseudo,smendius and Darius Hyataspes...Xerses...then Alexander the Great....after Him comes Ptolemy, Then Berenice the daughter of Ptolemy and the king of the North Antiochus, met and make an agreement in ref to Judea. Then Berenice and her son Laodice are murdered and then vengeance was taken by a General named Evergetes. Then steps in Antiochus III.
The King of The South Ptolemy III and the King of the North Antiochus III. Do their thing...vaguely mentioned. But Atiochus ends up being subdued, given up to licentiousness.

verse 15 Speaks of Antiochus III (the great) Da 11:16-19 describes his doings which is a foreshadowing of his antitype, "the little horn" The yet future antichrist, described in Da 11:21; 12:1, which show how the latter portion can be fulfilled by an individual.

verse 16 Another foreshadowing, but not exhausting what is said of "the vile person" Da 21:36

verse 17-19Ptolemy V meets and corrupts his own daughter of seven, Cleopatra. then a new prince steps in Lucius Scipio. Who defeats Antiochus III and makes him to withdraw to Syria.

Verse 20, One named Seleucus causes a tax collector named Heliodocus to pass through Judea and plunder the temple. Believe He was poisoned, because He didn't destroyed neither in anger or in battle.

Verse 20. Is the end of the Historical Portion. All of this has been fulfilled by now. It was the future at the time of the writing.

Verse 21 Passes on to the time which is still to come (the future for us). He begins the portion of this prophecy which is future to us "the latter days"

So, Yes, a portion has been fulfilled. The Rest vv 21 -45 are about the future. To them and to us. These have not been fulfilled.

View attachment 198083

Hope you can read that. It's a breakdown of the visions that relate to "the time of the end"

 

[Edmond Smith]

"This has preceding scriptures starting at v5.
Daniel saw two more angels, who served as witnesses for the oath of the linen-dressed angel (10:5). Two was the minimum number of witnesses necessary for an oath (Deut 19:15). One of the witnessing angels asked how long until the end of the predicted time of distress (tribulation). The tribulation (The second half of Daniels seventieth week) would be for be for a time, times, and an half of a time, or three and one-half years (7:25;Rev 21:7). By the end of the great tribulation Israel's power will be gone, causing them to turn in faith to their long-rejected Messiah Jesus (Zech 12:10). At that time. He will return and deliever them (Zech 14:1-21) and all these things shall be finished.

Both of these are at the end of the Age of Grace."

So this is also dual prophecy?

No, I was mistaken.
Matthew 13:40 is for our future.
Heb 9:26, Is just telling about Christ dying for our sin.

 

[Edmond Smith]

"Not quite, no rapture. Or taking away of the saints.
1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Most importantly...Israel still doesn't see Christ as the Messiah. And they will at the end."

Why would this mortal have to put on immortality if, according you, we are already immortal: immortal souls?

Technically, every one will see Christ as the Messiah in the end.

That's a good question.
God certainly doesn't have to give us our bodies back. But He does. Again, it comes down to His plan and His thoughts. We don't even come close to scratching the surface of either of those.
I think it's pretty awesome.
Think of it. If a saint in life, suffers from something that makes them, not to be able to run, or see, or hear, nor speak their whole life. But they loved the Lord and stayed in His Will and when they died their soul went to be with Christ. That's and amazing gift for us from God. But remember God never does things half way. We will praise him no matter what even with our souls being with him. But remember, God created these bodies. He created them from the dust of this earth that He spoke into existence. It stands to reason, at least a little why He would want His whole creation there with Him. Remember we are to love Him with Heart, mind, body and soul. It makes perfect sense to me. We not only get to be with Him in Spirit, but also in body. Spirits can't shake hands, they can't bow, they can prostrate...but in our bodies, we can do all of those and we will greatfully and awesomely love to do it, before Him. Remember the hope of the resurrection.

 

[Edmond Smith]

1 John 1:8 is written to the false gnostic way of thinking that says sin does not exist for the believer. 1 John 1:8 is a present tense statement, while 1 John 1:10 is a past tense statement. Certainly both you and I agree that we have sinned past tense. So 1 John 1 is dealing with the false gnostic belief.

Nope.

The following is what the writer of 1 John is talking about.

The Heresy Today

1. The spirit of this heresy is present with us today when people try to combine Christian truth with other systems of thought.

2. The spirit of this heresy is present with us today when people emphasize "correct" doctrine to the exclusion of personal relationship and lifestyle faith.

3. The spirit of this heresy is present with us today when people turn Christianity into an exclusive intellectual eliteness.

4. The spirit of this heresy is present with us today when religious people turn to asceticism or antinomianism.

asceticism - the doctrine that a person can attain a high spiritual and moral state by practicing self-denial, self-mortification, and the like.

antinomianism - a person who maintains that Christians are freed from the moral law by virtue of grace as set forth in the gospel.

PURPOSE

A. It has a practical focus for believers

1. to give them joy (cf. 1 John 1:4)

2. to encourage them to live godly lives (cf. 1:7; 2:1)

3. to command them (and remind them) to love one another (cf. 1 John 4:7-21) and not the world (cf. 1 John 2:15-17).

4. to give them assurance of their salvation in Christ (cf. 1 John 5:13)

B. It has a doctrinal focus for believers

1. refute the error of separating Jesus' deity and humanity

2. refute the error of separating spirituality into an intellectualism devoid of godly living

3. refute the error that one can be saved in isolation from others

You believe you will always sin as a part of 1 John 1:8 (no doubt because you say you will always sin as a part of some sin nature). But this was written as a warning to the brethren not to think this way because of the false gnostics that were seducing them (1 John 2:26).

CONTEXT...CONTEXT....CONTEXT...lol...you have a hard time with that. How about 1 John 2:1

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

oh you forgot:

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Those two tie together...notice the colon:

Oh yeah..you forgot this:

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Wait, how do we know we are with Him:

1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1 John 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Verse 26...is about all of chapter 2. He was telling them who they were in Christ. Reassuring them on what to do to be as Christ.

1 John 2:4 cannot be read or believed normally if your interpretation on 1 John 1:8 is true.

Let's check this out.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Well they are both Inspired by God. So they are both true.

The difference is this:

1 John 1:8...Is what we say about ourselves to ourselves and to others.
1 John 2:4... Is ignoring the God's will of command..so it's what we do against God. This is because we say we know God and then break His laws, which is a transgression, which is the definition of sin and when we sin, we sin directly against God.

Sounds like God knows exactly what He is saying.
But in both cases, we would be a liar. And in both cases the truth would not be in us.

I mean, do you honestly think God would want you to be a slave to your sin in this life? Why would God desire to save us while doing evil or any kind of evil? That doesn't make any sense. God wants us to forsake evil and not to justify it. He wants us to no longer be a slave to sin or evil. That is what your belief cannot stand for. The idea of walking righteously in this life by the power of God is not something you truly want or desire. Hence, why you defend the idea that we will be slaves to sin in this life.

Never said that. Never suggested it. Spoke completely opposite with what your saying. I have discussed ad nauseam with you. You don't understand it, okay. But I've tried to explain it to you in the most simplest terms as possible without being insulting. If you don't get it. It's because you don't want to.

As for John Piper: You quoted John Piper to me, but you do not know of what he really believes. It just goes to show you that you do not really know what these men actually teach. I do not agree with your belief, either. For it says you will be a slave to sin in this life because no man can stop sinning. This is wrong. For Jesus says to two people to sin no more. I believe Jesus in what He says and I do not believe your words that essentially say, "I will sin again always in this life." (Which runs contrary to the words of Jesus) (Note: Please see 1 Timothy 6:3-4).

I agreed that what John Piper wrote on suicide I believed to be wrong.
So, your right all the time, you never say goofy things, you might want to reread these post, you might find that you do and have, made a lot of mistakes.

Never said that. Never suggested it. Spoke completely opposite with what your saying. I have discussed ad nauseam with you. You don't understand it, okay. But I've tried to explain it to you in the most simplest terms as possible without being insulting. If you don't get it. It's because you don't want to. I'm just going to copy this every time you continue to repeat the wrong stuff.

Yes, some believers can honestly struggle with sin early in their walk with God, but they will in time overcome their sin by the power of God. For Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. Paul says we will become slaves to righteousness (Romans 6:18). Jesus says he that sins is a slave to sin (John 8:34). Yet, Paul says sin shall not have dominion over us (Romans 6:14). Romans 13:14 says put on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

This idea (of overcoming sin) totally offends you for some reason. Ask yourself why that is? For if there was a slim chance that you are wrong and you are indeed justifying that you will be a slave to sin in this life when the Bible does not say so, do you think God would be happy with you about that? Especially if God teaches within His Word that you can overcome your sin? Again see 1 Peter 4:1-2.

Never said that. Never suggested it. Spoke completely opposite with what your saying. I have discussed ad nauseam with you. You don't understand it, okay. But I've tried to explain it to you in the most simplest terms as possible without being insulting. If you don't get it. It's because you don't want to.

See, the Bible's concept on salvation makes no room or justification for evil or sin. For it would be a violation of basic morality. It's why you cannot make a parable or real world example out of your belief here. Also, ECT is a similar problem for you, as well. It is a violation of basic morality, as well (of which cannot be made into a parable or real world example). But go ahead and keep believing whatever you like (against what our hearts say is true and good). For anyone can quote Scripture, but it is another matter to allow the goodness of God to transform us into His likeness (By those Scriptures thereby changing our hearts, minds, hands, and feet).

Never said that. Never suggested it. Spoke completely opposite with what your saying. I have discussed ad nauseam with you. You don't understand it, okay. But I've tried to explain it to you in the most simplest terms as possible without being insulting. If you don't get it. It's because you don't want to.

1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments, we are a liar and the truth is not in us. Can we say we are keeping His commandments if we are also declaring that we will break them as a matter of fact (As a part of some uncontrollable sin nature)?

Can you say you don't break His commandments, even now?

 

[Edmond Smith]

1 John 1:8 is written to the false gnostic way of thinking that says sin does not exist for the believer. 1 John 1:8 is a present tense statement, while 1 John 1:10 is a past tense statement. Certainly both you and I agree that we have sinned past tense. So 1 John 1 is dealing with the false gnostic belief.

Nope.

The following is what the writer of 1 John is talking about.

The Heresy Today

1. The spirit of this heresy is present with us today when people try to combine Christian truth with other systems of thought.

2. The spirit of this heresy is present with us today when people emphasize "correct" doctrine to the exclusion of personal relationship and lifestyle faith.

3. The spirit of this heresy is present with us today when people turn Christianity into an exclusive intellectual eliteness.

4. The spirit of this heresy is present with us today when religious people turn to asceticism or antinomianism.

asceticism - the doctrine that a person can attain a high spiritual and moral state by practicing self-denial, self-mortification, and the like.

antinomianism - a person who maintains that Christians are freed from the moral law by virtue of grace as set forth in the gospel.

PURPOSE

A. It has a practical focus for believers

1. to give them joy (cf. 1 John 1:4)

2. to encourage them to live godly lives (cf. 1:7; 2:1)

3. to command them (and remind them) to love one another (cf. 1 John 4:7-21) and not the world (cf. 1 John 2:15-17).

4. to give them assurance of their salvation in Christ (cf. 1 John 5:13)

B. It has a doctrinal focus for believers

1. refute the error of separating Jesus' deity and humanity

2. refute the error of separating spirituality into an intellectualism devoid of godly living

3. refute the error that one can be saved in isolation from others

You believe you will always sin as a part of 1 John 1:8 (no doubt because you say you will always sin as a part of some sin nature). But this was written as a warning to the brethren not to think this way because of the false gnostics that were seducing them (1 John 2:26).

CONTEXT...CONTEXT....CONTEXT...lol...you have a hard time with that. How about 1 John 2:1

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

oh you forgot:

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Those two tie together...notice the colon:

Oh yeah..you forgot this:

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Wait, how do we know we are with Him:

1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1 John 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Verse 26...is about all of chapter 2. He was telling them who they were in Christ. Reassuring them on what to do to be as Christ.

1 John 2:4 cannot be read or believed normally if your interpretation on 1 John 1:8 is true.

Let's check this out.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Well they are both Inspired by God. So they are both true.

The difference is this:

1 John 1:8...Is what we say about ourselves to ourselves and to others.
1 John 2:4... Is ignoring the God's will of command..so it's what we do against God. This is because we say we know God and then break His laws, which is a transgression, which is the definition of sin and when we sin, we sin directly against God.

Sounds like God knows exactly what He is saying.
But in both cases, we would be a liar. And in both cases the truth would not be in us.

I mean, do you honestly think God would want you to be a slave to your sin in this life? Why would God desire to save us while doing evil or any kind of evil? That doesn't make any sense. God wants us to forsake evil and not to justify it. He wants us to no longer be a slave to sin or evil. That is what your belief cannot stand for. The idea of walking righteously in this life by the power of God is not something you truly want or desire. Hence, why you defend the idea that we will be slaves to sin in this life.

Never said that. Never suggested it. Spoke completely opposite with what your saying. I have discussed ad nauseam with you. You don't understand it, okay. But I've tried to explain it to you in the most simplest terms as possible without being insulting. If you don't get it. It's because you don't want to.

As for John Piper: You quoted John Piper to me, but you do not know of what he really believes. It just goes to show you that you do not really know what these men actually teach. I do not agree with your belief, either. For it says you will be a slave to sin in this life because no man can stop sinning. This is wrong. For Jesus says to two people to sin no more. I believe Jesus in what He says and I do not believe your words that essentially say, "I will sin again always in this life." (Which runs contrary to the words of Jesus) (Note: Please see 1 Timothy 6:3-4).

I agreed that what John Piper wrote on suicide I believed to be wrong.
So, your right all the time, you never say goofy things, you might want to reread these post, you might find that you do and have, made a lot of mistakes.

Never said that. Never suggested it. Spoke completely opposite with what your saying. I have discussed ad nauseam with you. You don't understand it, okay. But I've tried to explain it to you in the most simplest terms as possible without being insulting. If you don't get it. It's because you don't want to. I'm just going to copy this every time you continue to repeat the wrong stuff.

Yes, some believers can honestly struggle with sin early in their walk with God, but they will in time overcome their sin by the power of God. For Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. Paul says we will become slaves to righteousness (Romans 6:18). Jesus says he that sins is a slave to sin (John 8:34). Yet, Paul says sin shall not have dominion over us (Romans 6:14). Romans 13:14 says put on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

This idea (of overcoming sin) totally offends you for some reason. Ask yourself why that is? For if there was a slim chance that you are wrong and you are indeed justifying that you will be a slave to sin in this life when the Bible does not say so, do you think God would be happy with you about that? Especially if God teaches within His Word that you can overcome your sin? Again see 1 Peter 4:1-2.

Never said that. Never suggested it. Spoke completely opposite with what your saying. I have discussed ad nauseam with you. You don't understand it, okay. But I've tried to explain it to you in the most simplest terms as possible without being insulting. If you don't get it. It's because you don't want to.

See, the Bible's concept on salvation makes no room or justification for evil or sin. For it would be a violation of basic morality. It's why you cannot make a parable or real world example out of your belief here. Also, ECT is a similar problem for you, as well. It is a violation of basic morality, as well (of which cannot be made into a parable or real world example). But go ahead and keep believing whatever you like (against what our hearts say is true and good). For anyone can quote Scripture, but it is another matter to allow the goodness of God to transform us into His likeness (By those Scriptures thereby changing our hearts, minds, hands, and feet).

Never said that. Never suggested it. Spoke completely opposite with what your saying. I have discussed ad nauseam with you. You don't understand it, okay. But I've tried to explain it to you in the most simplest terms as possible without being insulting. If you don't get it. It's because you don't want to.

1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments, we are a liar and the truth is not in us. Can we say we are keeping His commandments if we are also declaring that we will break them as a matter of fact (As a part of some uncontrollable sin nature)?

Can you say you don't break His commandments, even now?

 

[claninja]

Okay, a little History lesson...LOL.
I'll make it quick.
Verses 1 - 10 Are about the those who ruled: Cabyses, pseudo,smendius and Darius Hyataspes...Xerses...then Alexander the Great....after Him comes Ptolemy, Then Berenice the daughter of Ptolemy and the king of the North Antiochus, met and make an agreement in ref to Judea. Then Berenice and her son Laodice are murdered and then vengeance was taken by a General named Evergetes. Then steps in Antiochus III.
The King of The South Ptolemy III and the King of the North Antiochus III. Do their thing...vaguely mentioned. But Atiochus ends up being subdued, given up to licentiousness.

verse 15 Speaks of Antiochus III (the great) Da 11:16-19 describes his doings which is a foreshadowing of his antitype, "the little horn" The yet future antichrist, described in Da 11:21; 12:1, which show how the latter portion can be fulfilled by an individual.

verse 16 Another foreshadowing, but not exhausting what is said of "the vile person" Da 21:36

verse 17-19Ptolemy V meets and corrupts his own daughter of seven, Cleopatra. then a new prince steps in Lucius Scipio. Who defeats Antiochus III and makes him to withdraw to Syria.

Verse 20, One named Seleucus causes a tax collector named Heliodocus to pass through Judea and plunder the temple. Believe He was poisoned, because He didn't destroyed neither in anger or in battle.

Verse 20. Is the end of the Historical Portion. All of this has been fulfilled by now. It was the future at the time of the writing.

Verse 21 Passes on to the time which is still to come (the future for us). He begins the portion of this prophecy which is future to us "the latter days"

So, Yes, a portion has been fulfilled. The Rest vv 21 -45 are about the future. To them and to us. These have not been fulfilled.

View attachment 198083

Hope you can read that. It's a breakdown of the visions that relate to "the time of the end"

I agree with you all the way until you say verse 21 is about the future for us.

Verses 21-35 Antiochus Epiphanes, Destruction of Jerusalem, Idol Jupiter set up in the Temple, Maccabean revolt

Verses 36-39 Herod the Great or possibly still Antiochus Epiphanes, as both eerily fit this prophecy

Verses 40-45 Caesar Augustus, Mark Antony and Cleopatra, Herod the Great

So if these verses are about the future of us, then this would have to be a dual prophecy.

 

[claninja]

No, I was mistaken.
Matthew 13:40 is for our future.
Heb 9:26, Is just telling about Christ dying for our sin.

I would disagree only because matthew 13:40 says the harvest and judgment will happen at the consummation of the end of the ages, which is at the same time that the writer of Hebrews stated that Christ appeared to put away sin through his sacrifice: the consummation of the end of the ages.

and we know that in Matthew 16:27-28 Jesus says this:
For the Son of man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay every man for what he has done. 28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”

So when Jesus comes into his kingdom, he will repay every man for what he has done. And there were some who were standing with Jesus would not taste death before this happens.

It then appears that according to Matthew 16:27-28, which parallels with Mark 8:38-9:1, and Luke 9:26-27, that the harvest and judgment will take place during the time of Jesus' audience.

And often the context of these judgments have to do with Israel.

 

[claninja]

That's a good question.
God certainly doesn't have to give us our bodies back. But He does. Again, it comes down to His plan and His thoughts. We don't even come close to scratching the surface of either of those.
I think it's pretty awesome.
Think of it. If a saint in life, suffers from something that makes them, not to be able to run, or see, or hear, nor speak their whole life. But they loved the Lord and stayed in His Will and when they died their soul went to be with Christ. That's and amazing gift for us from God. But remember God never does things half way. We will praise him no matter what even with our souls being with him. But remember, God created these bodies. He created them from the dust of this earth that He spoke into existence. It stands to reason, at least a little why He would want His whole creation there with Him. Remember we are to love Him with Heart, mind, body and soul. It makes perfect sense to me. We not only get to be with Him in Spirit, but also in body. Spirits can't shake hands, they can't bow, they can prostrate...but in our bodies, we can do all of those and we will greatfully and awesomely love to do it, before Him. Remember the hope of the resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:32b
If the dead are not raised "let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die."

This verse in the context of the resurrection. Our hope is in the resurrection, otherwise if we die there is nothing after this life, and we should live it up now.

 

[Edmond Smith]

I agree with you all the way until you say verse 21 is about the future for us.

Verses 21-35 Antiochus Epiphanes, Destruction of Jerusalem, Idol Jupiter set up in the Temple, Maccabean revolt

Yeah...its a perfect fit for that AntiChrist of the future also.Antiochus IV Epiphanes would have a terrible and oppressive effect on the Jewish people in the near term, and his reign is a picture of the future world ruler [the antichrist] who will also oppress the Jewish people.
Demetrius was the rightful heir, but Antiochus took control by intrigue. Demetrius was held in Rome.
Yes, He desecrates the Temple with the Idol of Jupiter, the antichrist does it himself, In Thessalonians He is called the son of perdition in verse 3:

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Even Epiphanes name matched his demeanor it means "Manifest One, Illustrious One", they also had a nickname for Him, "Epimanes" means madman

v 31, Antiochus attacks Israel, for the third time after being made to withdraw from the Roman fleet of Chittim. Antiochus prefigures the antichrist by abolishing the daily sacrifice.

This ban on worship will not just be for Jewish temple. The Antichrist will forbid and abolish all religious worship, declaring himself God and requiring worship of himself, with suppression, persecution, and even death to all who won’t bow to him. “He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down. Because of transgression, an army was given over to the [Antichrist] to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. He did all this and prospered” (Daniel 8:11–12). The “Prince of the host” is believed to mean Jesus or God. So the Antichrist is now saying to everyone that he is God.

“And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the Abomination of Desolation” (Daniel 11:31). By stringing these Scriptures together we can determine that three and a half years after confirming the seven-year Covenant—“in the middle of the week”—he not only forcibly enters the newly rebuilt temple on Mount Moriah, Jerusalem, and “takes away the daily sacrifice” and sets himself up as God, but he also “places” something called “the Abomination of Desolation.”

Over five hundred years after Daniel gave this prophecy, Jesus, in His famous dissertation on “the signs of His [second] coming and of the end of the world” in Matthew chapter 24, said: “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place”— the Jewish temple in Jerusalem—“whoever reads [the book of Daniel], let him understand” (Matthew 24:15).

Verses 36-39 Herod the Great or possibly still Antiochus Epiphanes, as both eerily fit this prophecy

Verses 40-45 Caesar Augustus, Mark Antony and Cleopatra, Herod the Great

So if these verses are about the future of us, then this would have to be a dual prophecy.

Hey, not disagreeing....just found some more nuggets of Glorious knowledge from God...He is so massively Awesome...Don't ya just Love Him. I do.

 

[Edmond Smith]

I would disagree only because matthew 13:40 says the harvest and judgment will happen at the consummation of the end of the ages, which is at the same time that the writer of Hebrews stated that Christ appeared to put away sin through his sacrifice: the consummation of the end of the ages.

and we know that in Matthew 16:27-28 Jesus says this:
For the Son of man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay every man for what he has done. 28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”

So when Jesus comes into his kingdom, he will repay every man for what he has done. And there were some who were standing with Jesus would not taste death before this happens.

It then appears that according to Matthew 16:27-28, which parallels with Mark 8:38-9:1, and Luke 9:26-27, that the harvest and judgment will take place during the time of Jesus' audience.

And often the context of these judgments have to do with Israel.

Hebrews is speaking of the End of Age, I believe.

Matthew 16 is about the destruction of the temple and the persecution the Jews will receive before, from Nero and then after the destruction in 70 AD. Those who were alive when Christ spoke those words were alive during that time. Many died during and before the destruction except for John He saw it all.

 

[Edmond Smith]

1 Corinthians 15:32b
If the dead are not raised "let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die."

This verse in the context of the resurrection. Our hope is in the resurrection, otherwise if we die there is nothing after this life, and we should live it up now.

Okay, lets read the whole thing from v12....context.

v12. Some were saying that there is no resurrection.
v13. Paul makes a pretty solid point - If no resurrection of the dead, then Christ did not rise.
v14. If Christ hadn't rose. Then our preaching of the Gospel is vain, and so is your faith.
v15. We would be found as false witnesses of God. Because we testify that God raised Christ up, if he didn't raise him up, then let It be that the dead don't rise.
v16. If the dead don't rise up, then did Christ rise?
v17. If Christ didn't rise, then your faith is vain and you are still in your sins.
v18. Then those who have died in Christ are perished.
v19. Christians should be pitied more than anyone if there is no resurrection, for in that case we have placed all our hopes in a lie. Christianity is fundamentally a resurrection faith.
v20. Christ's genuine, well - attested resurrection is the guarantee of our future resurrection. Firstfruits refers to the guarantee that Christ's resurrection is the first-of-a-kind resurrection that promises others will follow in the end time.
v21. By man (Adam) death came to humanity. If this is ever to be reversed, it must be done so through like kind: a man. God has appointed just such a man, Jesus Christ who is fully divine and fully human.
v22. Like Adam, all men die. Like Christ all that are His shall live.
v23. Jesus' resurrection precedes and makes certain the resurrection of those who belong to Christ at His coming.
v24-28. Christ will conquer and subdue everything, including the last enemy...death. By saying 'he must reign', Paul touches on the set-in-stone divine plan that assures us that history will end in just this way: With God triumphant over all evil and God's people reigning with Christ forever 1 Tim 2:12
v29 Paul is telling the Corinthian Church and simply pointed out that it was inconsistent for them to enact the practice of 'baptized for the dead': it's an undergoing baptism on behalf of a believer who had died without undergoing baptism. If the Corinthians disbelieved in the resurrection of the dead, why get baptized?
v30-31 If there is no resurrection, why then do we as Christians stand in persecution all the time, for what reason should we? We should all die daily and live in Christ,
v32-33.Here Paul is speaking about all the suffering He has been through by man and beast. If Christ didn't rise from the dead, then why should he have done so. So chuck it out and eat, drink and be merry. That's how the world acts today. They have no fear of God and they toss it aside for their own desires. As if Christ didn't rise from the dead. Thank God almighty...He did. Evil communication corrupts good manners is so right.
v34. Awaken to the righteousness of God, Wake up and see His Glory, for His Son has risen. But unfortunately some have not this knowledge of God and it's a shame that they refuse to gain that knowledge.

 

[claninja]

Hebrews is speaking of the End of Age, I believe.

Matthew 16 is about the destruction of the temple and the persecution the Jews will receive before, from Nero and then after the destruction in 70 AD. Those who were alive when Christ spoke those words were alive during that time. Many died during and before the destruction except for John He saw it all.

What happens?
Matthew 13:40: harvest and Judgment
Hebrews 9:26: Manifestation of Christ and his death on cross

When it happens?
Matthew 13:40: συντελείᾳ τοῦ αἰῶνος: Consummation of the age
Hebrews 9:26: συντελείᾳ τῶν αἰώνων: Consummation of the ages

Both are about the completion of the ages. They do not occur at different time periods, but during the same time period.

 

[claninja]

Okay, lets read the whole thing from v12....context.

v12. Some were saying that there is no resurrection.
v13. Paul makes a pretty solid point - If no resurrection of the dead, then Christ did not rise.
v14. If Christ hadn't rose. Then our preaching of the Gospel is vain, and so is your faith.
v15. We would be found as false witnesses of God. Because we testify that God raised Christ up, if he didn't raise him up, then let It be that the dead don't rise.
v16. If the dead don't rise up, then did Christ rise?
v17. If Christ didn't rise, then your faith is vain and you are still in your sins.
v18. Then those who have died in Christ are perished.
v19. Christians should be pitied more than anyone if there is no resurrection, for in that case we have placed all our hopes in a lie. Christianity is fundamentally a resurrection faith.
v20. Christ's genuine, well - attested resurrection is the guarantee of our future resurrection. Firstfruits refers to the guarantee that Christ's resurrection is the first-of-a-kind resurrection that promises others will follow in the end time.
v21. By man (Adam) death came to humanity. If this is ever to be reversed, it must be done so through like kind: a man. God has appointed just such a man, Jesus Christ who is fully divine and fully human.
v22. Like Adam, all men die. Like Christ all that are His shall live.
v23. Jesus' resurrection precedes and makes certain the resurrection of those who belong to Christ at His coming.
v24-28. Christ will conquer and subdue everything, including the last enemy...death. By saying 'he must reign', Paul touches on the set-in-stone divine plan that assures us that history will end in just this way: With God triumphant over all evil and God's people reigning with Christ forever 1 Tim 2:12
v29 Paul is telling the Corinthian Church and simply pointed out that it was inconsistent for them to enact the practice of 'baptized for the dead': it's an undergoing baptism on behalf of a believer who had died without undergoing baptism. If the Corinthians disbelieved in the resurrection of the dead, why get baptized?
v30-31 If there is no resurrection, why then do we as Christians stand in persecution all the time, for what reason should we? We should all die daily and live in Christ,
v32-33.Here Paul is speaking about all the suffering He has been through by man and beast. If Christ didn't rise from the dead, then why should he have done so. So chuck it out and eat, drink and be merry. That's how the world acts today. They have no fear of God and they toss it aside for their own desires. As if Christ didn't rise from the dead. Thank God almighty...He did. Evil communication corrupts good manners is so right.
v34. Awaken to the righteousness of God, Wake up and see His Glory, for His Son has risen. But unfortunately some have not this knowledge of God and it's a shame that they refuse to gain that knowledge.

So if Christ didn't resurrect, than neither will we. But, according to you, we have immortal souls, so that would appear that it doesn't really matter if we are resurrected or not.

Again, this does not answer the problems arising out the "immortal soul" argument.

 

[Edmond Smith]

What happens?
Matthew 13:40: harvest and Judgment
Hebrews 9:26: Manifestation of Christ and his death on cross

When it happens?
Matthew 13:40: συντελείᾳ τοῦ αἰῶνος: Consummation of the age
Hebrews 9:26: συντελείᾳ τῶν αἰώνων: Consummation of the ages

Both are about the completion of the ages. They do not occur at different time periods, but during the same time period.

Yes and no. As we both agreed, at the time of His Crucifixion, and resurrection. Is the time of grace for the Gentiles.

We need to read Romans 11. In the 2nd verse Paul says that Israel is not cast away and points to himself as evidence. He became a follower of Christ and he worked for the salvation of the Jews all through his ministry, even though he was the apostle to the Gentiles. In verse 7 he says "Israel has not obtained what it seeks." Then in verses 19-22 where he is talking about us (Gentiles) being grafted into their olive tree, he says: "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off." The words "did not spare" let us know that as a nation he considered the Jews no longer God's people. As individuals they can still have salvation; as individuals they are no different from anyone else. As a nation, too, they are no different: all need Jesus. Now consider Galatians 3:29. "And if you are Christ's then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." All the promises of scripture are for God's people. Today Christians are that people if they "continue in His (God's) goodness." Rom. 11:22 .

So, the Jewish nation is still under God's watchful eye, but they are not the chosen as they were during Abraham, Moses and Noah. The Cross is the changing point of this. They can still be saved and we should love them as much as we love any other. And witness to them the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Now is the time for the Church and the days of grace. This will happen until the taking away (rapture) of the Church. After that, literally Hells gates open wide and Satan has rule on Earth during that time. Many will still be saved, but staying saved will be much harder then than it is now.
We are at war. For our very souls. Satan is out to steal, kill and destroy us, the church and everything we believe. He perverts every righteous thing that God has for us, marriage, sex, family, love, truth, Heaven and Hell. How did He pervert Hell? He has convinced many it don't exist, Oh heaven exist to them, all will go to heaven to them, there is more than one way to heaven to them and God isn't a good God if He punishes those who sin against Him, it's unfair and unjust.

Imagine Calling the just God unjust. Without His justice and righteousness, we wouldn't have the law, we wouldn't have the Love he gives us, We wouldn't have the protection He gives us, Grace wouldn't even exist. Why should it? If all we do is live, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die and that's it. Why would he offer us eternal life if people lived like that? If there is no hope for those who have died in His name, hundreds of thousands have been killed in His name. And people believe that God is going to just let these people have a pass on eternity. That the only punishment is not to exist anymore. They killed His people, they tortured His people, they force family members to watch as they did these things to their other members of their families, telling them to recant Christ, to turn away from Him, to say God doesn't exist, or to convert to their religion (the so called religion of peace). So God when He says vengeance is mine saith the Lord, He's lying about that?

Those saints who are under the throne of God, who have been martyred for their belief in God and His Word, and those who will be during the tribulation. They have no hope of seeing God punish those who sinned against Him for doing this? Because death is their only punishment.

None of it is biblical. God is a God of Love, He is a Good God, He is a righteous God and He is a just God. His morals aren't in question because He is the author of Morals, He is the Moral lawgiver. He sets the standards for morals and what He does is always for our good and for His Glory.

Sinners, those who continue to sin and live their life without God, those that do not seek out His forgiveness or His righteousness. Those who claim to be children of God, but no fruit, you have hardened their hearts to the poor, needy and the lost. Those who preach, false teachings claiming them to be true. Those who take a lie and say it is the truth and take the truth and turn it into a lie.
Those who fornicate, commit adultery, steal, create their own god and worship their idols. Will face God one day. They will have to stand before and Angry God, who has given them time after time, and thousands of chances, to come to Him, surrender their life unto Him and deny themselves and follow Christ. They will face Him and He will give them exactly what they want. Eternal life, without Him. They will also feel the torment of Hell, yet not be consumed, for their sins against Him.

I wish it weren't so. I wish there was no Hell. But there is. Wishes won't make it go away. Denial won't make it go away. Lying to ourselves and others, won't make it go away. Only Jesus Christ the name which no other can be saved by. Is the only Hope for man's salvation. And we must do what we can, speak the gospel, pray and study God's word and let those people know Now is the day of Salvation. For you may not have a tomorrow to have that chance again.

 

[claninja]

We need to read Romans 11. In the 2nd verse Paul says that Israel is not cast away and points to himself as evidence. He became a follower of Christ and he worked for the salvation of the Jews all through his ministry, even though he was the apostle to the Gentiles. In verse 7 he says "Israel has not obtained what it seeks." Then in verses 19-22 where he is talking about us (Gentiles) being grafted into their olive tree, he says: "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off." The words "did not spare" let us know that as a nation he considered the Jews no longer God's people. As individuals they can still have salvation; as individuals they are no different from anyone else. As a nation, too, they are no different: all need Jesus. Now consider Galatians 3:29. "And if you are Christ's then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." All the promises of scripture are for God's people. Today Christians are that people if they "continue in His (God's) goodness." Rom. 11:22 .

I absolutely agree with you. Romans 9-11 is full of so much goodness.

The gentiles are those who did not pursue righteousness, but did obtain it by faith; Romans 9:30. The gentiles did not seek God, but still found Him; God revealed Himself to the gentiles who did not ask for Him; Romans: 10:20, Isaiah 65:1. The gentiles are vessels of mercy; Romans 9:23-26, Hosea 2:23. The elect remnant of Jews are also vessels of mercy; Romans 9:27, Romans 9:29, Romans 11:1-6.

**Interesting note: the sheep's humble response in Matthew 25:38-39
"And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? 39 And when
did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?"
They did not even know they were doing righteousness for Christ. They did not pursue
righteousness, but did obtain it.

Israel is the vessel of wrath, with which God had much patience toward; Romans 9:22. Israel will be judged by God; Romans 9:28-29. Israel pursued righteousness by the law, but did not obtain it; Romans 9:31-33. Israel will be angered and made jealous by a foolish nation; Romans 10:19. The elect remnant of Jews obtained grace, but the rest of Israel was hardened; Romans 11:7-10. God would judge Israel and cut them off; Romans 11:17-24, 1 kings 9:4-8.

**Interesting note: the goat's self-righteous response in Matthew 25:44
"44 Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked
or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?"
They thought they were doing righteousness, when really they were not. They pursued
righteousness, but did not obtain it.

So, the Jewish nation is still under God's watchful eye, but they are not the chosen as they were during Abraham, Moses and Noah. The Cross is the changing point of this. They can still be saved and we should love them as much as we love any other. And witness to them the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Agree, the cutting off of Israel served a specific purpose: salvation to the gentiles and riches to the world. But gentiles, don't get too proud, for all Israel will be saved. For God has consigned all men to disobedience, that he may have mercy upon all.

Now is the time for the Church and the days of grace. This will happen until the taking away (rapture) of the Church. After that, literally Hells gates open wide and Satan has rule on Earth during that time. Many will still be saved, but staying saved will be much harder then than it is now.
We are at war. For our very souls. Satan is out to steal, kill and destroy us, the church and everything we believe. He perverts every righteous thing that God has for us, marriage, sex, family, love, truth, Heaven and Hell. How did He pervert Hell? He has convinced many it don't exist, Oh heaven exist to them, all will go to heaven to them, there is more than one way to heaven to them and God isn't a good God if He punishes those who sin against Him, it's unfair and unjust.

I don't necessarily agree with you on this, as Revelation is a highly figurative book. There are many different interpretations of it, and using it to make an argument for a point of view does not always work well, as people view the figurative language differently.

I wish it weren't so. I wish there was no Hell. But there is. Wishes won't make it go away. Denial won't make it go away. Lying to ourselves and others, won't make it go away.

You mean you wish there was no Gehenna, Hades, or Tartarus

 

[Edmond Smith]

Yes, all of them

Gehanna = Hell
Hades = Hell
Tartarus = Hell..

You see the word hell wasn't the word used in the original word. Because it wasn't even a word at that time.
There are many thoughts on where the word hell came from. The closest where people agree is that it comes from the norse word called 'Hel' Which is from an old story about a being that ruled the underworld and his name was 'Hel'. The other they pretty much agree with is that it is a proto-Germaniac word 'hel' which also leads back to the Norse. The original English version of the word is 'helle'. The dates run from 725 AD to the 13 century.

The words used in the Scripture were the words they used at that time. They are descriptive words and used in the context they are used. Showed the people of the time, that dying in your sins, you went somewhere, not good, ugly, gross, on fire, disgusting, full of decay, dark and depressing....for eternity.

The word Hell and it's primary definition met with the response it was intended when first placed in the Bible, and it's meaning is much more stringent than the originals. It got the message across, never takes from the meaning of the scriptures and is true.

It's all about who was told, when it was told, how it was told and does it pertain to today.

Ἰησοῦς Iēsoûs, ee-ay-sooce'

Who is this?

קֹדֶשׁ qôdesh, ko'-desh a sacred place or thing
רוּחַ rûwach, roo'-akh a sensible (or even violent) exhalation

Who is This?

שָׁמַיִם shâmayim, shaw-mah'-yim from an unused root meaning to be lofty

οὐρανός ouranós, oo-ran-os' (through the idea of elevation); the sky

Where is this?


First one is Iesus.....Jesus....before the letter 'J' was made...Yet, everyone who heard and read the Word of God in greek, knew who it was. Because of who He was and the context it was written.

The second one is the 'Holy Spirit'...again...everyone understood what it meant, then and now.

The last two.....is the Hebrew for Heaven and the Greek for Heaven. Yet, the words are written in the language the Word was written in...the meaning is still the same and know throughout the world.

There is this:

שְׁאוֹל shᵉʼôwl, sheh-ole'

or שְׁאֹל shᵉʼôl; from H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates

γέεννα géenna, gheh'-en-nah

of Hebrew origin (H1516 and H2011); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; ge-henna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem,

In the Hebrew Bible, Gehenna was initially where some of the kings of Judah sacrificed their children by fire.[1] Thereafter it was deemed to be cursed (Jer. 7:31, 19:2-6).

So was understood, by all of a place not to go to.

 

[claninja]

Yes, all of them

Gehanna = Hell
Hades = Hell
Tartarus = Hell..

You see the word hell wasn't the word used in the original word. Because it wasn't even a word at that time.
There are many thoughts on where the word hell came from. The closest where people agree is that it comes from the norse word called 'Hel' Which is from an old story about a being that ruled the underworld and his name was 'Hel'. The other they pretty much agree with is that it is a proto-Germaniac word 'hel' which also leads back to the Norse. The original English version of the word is 'helle'. The dates run from 725 AD to the 13 century.

The words used in the Scripture were the words they used at that time. They are descriptive words and used in the context they are used. Showed the people of the time, that dying in your sins, you went somewhere, not good, ugly, gross, on fire, disgusting, full of decay, dark and depressing....for eternity.

The word Hell and it's primary definition met with the response it was intended when first placed in the Bible, and it's meaning is much more stringent than the originals. It got the message across, never takes from the meaning of the scriptures and is true.

It's all about who was told, when it was told, how it was told and does it pertain to today.

Ἰησοῦς Iēsoûs, ee-ay-sooce'

Who is this?

קֹדֶשׁ qôdesh, ko'-desh a sacred place or thing
רוּחַ rûwach, roo'-akh a sensible (or even violent) exhalation

Who is This?

שָׁמַיִם shâmayim, shaw-mah'-yim from an unused root meaning to be lofty

οὐρανός ouranós, oo-ran-os' (through the idea of elevation); the sky

Where is this?


First one is Iesus.....Jesus....before the letter 'J' was made...Yet, everyone who heard and read the Word of God in greek, knew who it was. Because of who He was and the context it was written.

The second one is the 'Holy Spirit'...again...everyone understood what it meant, then and now.

The last two.....is the Hebrew for Heaven and the Greek for Heaven. Yet, the words are written in the language the Word was written in...the meaning is still the same and know throughout the world.

There is this:

שְׁאוֹל shᵉʼôwl, sheh-ole'

or שְׁאֹל shᵉʼôl; from H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates

γέεννα géenna, gheh'-en-nah

of Hebrew origin (H1516 and H2011); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; ge-henna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem,

In the Hebrew Bible, Gehenna was initially where some of the kings of Judah sacrificed their children by fire.[1] Thereafter it was deemed to be cursed (Jer. 7:31, 19:2-6).

So was understood, by all of a place not to go to.

As you just pointed out the definitions, I would argue they don't all necessarily mean "hell" as in a place of eternal torment.

 

[helping]

Where in the Bible is Gods promise to Abraham and Jacob canceled ??