The Eternality of Hell

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[helping]

Understanding the Bible, it must apply, fit, make sense into the real world, This day in age, at least around where I live, mankind doesn't pay much attention to, the good or bad spirit world. Centuries ago people dealt with spirit world, if they were right or wrong who knows but they dealt with it. Most of Bible deals with spirit world, to understand bible correctly, one probably need to understand spirit world somewhat.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Read it, I'll not defend John Piper. He can do that well enough himself.

But the writer did make some mistakes. First he assumed a lot. Piper never says to this Mara, once saved always saved. He doesn't even allude to it.

The writer is making a lot of presuppositions and assumptions. He has taken what is obviously a conversation between John Piper and this girl Mara. And He cherry picked what He wanted to discuss about. Without contextual content. He is just proof texting.
So, Until I see the whole conversation between John Piper and this young lady Mara. I'll make a judgment then. Until then. I suggest no one make assumptions on a snippet of a conversation.

But what John Piper included in the information I posted. It isn't wrong. It's on the money and all scripture.

While at first glance, John Piper appears to believe in OSAS Lite (The version of Once Saved Always Saved that says you have to live a holy life in order to be saved). You can easily make this conclusion by simply watching his videos that are against sin. However, this is simply not the case.

Here are John Piper's own words on how a person can commit suicide (self murder) and still be saved.

Suicide and Salvation | Desiring God

This to me is a justification of evil or sin.
Why? Because when you tell people that they are saved while committing sin, all their teaching on righteous living as a requirement in being a believer is thrown out the window. One is talking out of both sides of their mouth. For if I tell a person they could be saved if they commit self murder, and they commit that sin, then their blood will be on my hands for me in promoting that it is okay to sin with God approving of such a thing. Committing one serious sin is no different than committing lots of sin.

This is the problem with your belief, as well. You are saying that we all sin and we cannot help but to sin even as mature believers (even though the Bible makes no mention of this). That it is okay to teach that we are human and sinners (Which runs contrary to the BIble's teaching on "Being Perfect" and in "Overcoming Sin."). On the one hand you say that we will not seek to sin or justify our sin to God, but sin is justified when one says that we are human and will always sin as a part of some uncontrollable sin nature that will move us about like rag dolls at some point in our future (of which the Bible is silent on). Again, this is a justification of sin or evil. Jesus told two people to sin no more. Jesus even told one man that if he were to sin again, a worse thing would come upon him. So you can keep preaching an imaginary teaching on how we will always sin in this life, but I will choose to believe the words of Jesus instead.


...

 

[Edmond Smith]

Why not read it as it says rather than assume it means something else, If Satan meant the kingdoms of Palestine why would HE say world ? Are you saying He doesn't Know the difference?? If one actually looks around, it doesn't take much thought, to figure out that Satan is still in control of all the Kingdoms of the world.

Is it possible Satan could have shown the whole world to Christ, don't know. I wasn't there, neither were you. You have to keep in context.

Who was the story told to? It was told to the people of the time. Back in those days, people were absolutely ignorant of the world as being round. Except of course Christ and those who truly studied the scriptures. Because it tells of the earth being round. But again, the story was told to ordinary folk and was made simple for them to understand. So it would have made sense to them at that time that Christ was shown the world around Him.

 

[Edmond Smith]

Why not read it as it says rather than assume it means something else, If Satan meant the kingdoms of Palestine why would HE say world ? Are you saying He doesn't Know the difference?? If one actually looks around, it doesn't take much thought, to figure out that Satan is still in control of all the Kingdoms of the world.

Is it possible Satan could have shown the whole world to Christ, don't know. I wasn't there, neither were you. You have to keep in context.

Who was the story told to? It was told to the people of the time. Back in those days, people were absolutely ignorant of the world as being round. Except of course Christ and those who truly studied the scriptures. Because it tells of the earth being round. But again, the story was told to ordinary folk and was made simple for them to understand. So it would have made sense to them at that time that Christ was shown the world around Him.

 

[Edmond Smith]

While at first glance, John Piper appears to believe in OSAS Lite (The version of Once Saved Always Saved that says you have to live a holy life in order to be saved). You can easily make this conclusion by simply watching his videos that are against sin. However, this is simply not the case.

Here are John Piper's own words on how a person can commit suicide (self murder) and still be saved.

Suicide and Salvation | Desiring God

This to me is a justification of evil or sin.
Why? Because when you tell people that they are saved while committing sin, all their teaching on righteous living as a requirement in being a believer is thrown out the window. One is talking out of both sides of their mouth. For if I tell a person they could be saved if they commit self murder, and they commit that sin, then their blood will be on my hands for me in promoting that it is okay to sin with God approving of such a thing. Committing one serious sin is no different than committing lots of sin.

This is the problem with your belief, as well. You are saying that we all sin and we cannot help but to sin even as mature believers (even though the Bible makes no mention of this). That it is okay to teach that we are human and sinners (Which runs contrary to the BIble's teaching on "Being Perfect" and in "Overcoming Sin."). On the one hand you say that we will not seek to sin or justify our sin to God, but sin is justified when one says that we are human and will always sin as a part of some uncontrollable sin nature that will move us about like rag dolls at some point in our future (of which the Bible is silent on). Again, this is a justification of sin or evil. Jesus told two people to sin no more. Jesus even told one man that if he were to sin again, a worse thing would come upon him. So you can keep preaching an imaginary teaching on how we will always sin in this life, but I will choose to believe the words of Jesus instead.


...

First, I've never agreed that someone who claims to be a Christian and then commits suicide will make it to heaven. If that's what John piper believes, then I heartedly disagree with Him. His analogy doesn't stand up against someone committing suicide. So before you go and make accusations. Maybe you should ask me first, what I believe?

Second, the bible does say that we sin even as mature believers. I gave them to you. You ignore them to your choosing. But they are there.
No we don't go around, seeking out sin. We don't want to and we don't put ourselves into positions where we will. But if your human, you will. And if you say you haven't, then you just have, you'd be a liar.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

First, I've never agreed that someone who claims to be a Christian and then commits suicide will make it to heaven. If that's what John piper believes, then I heartedly disagree with Him. His analogy doesn't stand up against someone committing suicide. So before you go and make accusations. Maybe you should ask me first, what I believe?

Second, the bible does say that we sin even as mature believers. I gave them to you. You ignore them to your choosing. But they are there.
No we don't go around, seeking out sin. We don't want to and we don't put ourselves into positions where we will. But if your human, you will. And if you say you haven't, then you just have, you'd be a liar.

1 John 1:8 is written to the false gnostic way of thinking that says sin does not exist for the believer. 1 John 1:8 is a present tense statement, while 1 John 1:10 is a past tense statement. Certainly both you and I agree that we have sinned past tense. So 1 John 1 is dealing with the false gnostic belief.

You believe you will always sin as a part of 1 John 1:8 (no doubt because you say you will always sin as a part of some sin nature). But this was written as a warning to the brethren not to think this way because of the false gnostics that were seducing them (1 John 2:26).

1 John 2:4 cannot be read or believed normally if your interpretation on 1 John 1:8 is true.

I mean, do you honestly think God would want you to be a slave to your sin in this life? Why would God desire to save us while doing evil or any kind of evil? That doesn't make any sense. God wants us to forsake evil and not to justify it. He wants us to no longer be a slave to sin or evil. That is what your belief cannot stand for. The idea of walking righteously in this life by the power of God is not something you truly want or desire. Hence, why you defend the idea that we will be slaves to sin in this life.

As for John Piper: You quoted John Piper to me, but you do not know of what he really believes. It just goes to show you that you do not really know what these men actually teach. I do not agree with your belief, either. For it says you will be a slave to sin in this life because no man can stop sinning. This is wrong. For Jesus says to two people to sin no more. I believe Jesus in what He says and I do not believe your words that essentially say, "I will sin again always in this life." (Which runs contrary to the words of Jesus) (Note: Please see 1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Yes, some believers can honestly struggle with sin early in their walk with God, but they will in time overcome their sin by the power of God. For Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. Paul says we will become slaves to righteousness (Romans 6:18). Jesus says he that sins is a slave to sin (John 8:34). Yet, Paul says sin shall not have dominion over us (Romans 6:14). Romans 13:14 says put on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. This idea (of overcoming sin) totally offends you for some reason. Ask yourself why that is? For if there was a slim chance that you are wrong and you are indeed justifying that you will be a slave to sin in this life when the Bible does not say so, do you think God would be happy with you about that? Especially if God teaches within His Word that you can overcome your sin? Again see 1 Peter 4:1-2.

See, the Bible's concept on salvation makes no room or justification for evil or sin. For it would be a violation of basic morality. It's why you cannot make a parable or real world example out of your belief here. Also, ECT is a similar problem for you, as well. It is a violation of basic morality, as well (of which cannot be made into a parable or real world example). But go ahead and keep believing whatever you like (against what our hearts say is true and good). For anyone can quote Scripture, but it is another matter to allow the goodness of God to transform us into His likeness (By those Scriptures thereby changing our hearts, minds, hands, and feet).

1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments, we are a liar and the truth is not in us. Can we say we are keeping His commandments if we are also declaring that we will break them as a matter of fact (As a part of some uncontrollable sin nature)?


...

 

[helping]

As we move forward, 3/4 of Old Testament deals with God's promise to a certain bloodline, through history and prophecy and when we get to New Testament Christ says He came not to change 1 thing other than the way to get to God and Heaven. later on by another writer we are told to forget God's promise. God has had many, many people killing others for centuries for this promise, and now it doesn't matter ?????????????? bloodline 12 sons of Jacob. Christians that has washed their robes (aka God' forgiveness) get to Heaven.
There is 144,000 bloodline and a few others alive at the end the God comes down to live with. Bloodline Not Jews, Christian, Muslim, or any other religion. This actually shows who is deceiving and leading you astray in the Bible.

 

[helping]

As we move forward, 3/4 of Old Testament deals with God's promise to a certain bloodline, through history and prophecy and when we get to New Testament Christ says He came not to change 1 thing other than the way to get to God and Heaven. later on by another writer we are told to forget God's promise. God has had many, many people killing others for centuries for this promise, and now it doesn't matter ?????????????? bloodline 12 sons of Jacob. Christians that has washed their robes (aka God' forgiveness) get to Heaven.
There is 144,000 bloodline and a few others alive at the end the God comes down to live with. Bloodline Not Jews, Christian, Muslim, or any other religion. This actually shows who is deceiving and leading you astray in the Bible.

 

[helping]

Actually read the Bible from this direction and see if it makes more sense. I've said, if you find the need to throw away parts of Bible, you're reading from the wrong direction.

 

[claninja]

Matthew 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
165. αἰών aion (aiṓn)
Search for G165 in KJVSL; in KJV.
αἰών aiṓn, ahee-ohn'

from the same as G104; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future):—age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the , while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.

Okay, this World is a messianic period either present or future. This is what is called a duel prophecy. We can also know this by comparing it to G5550
χρόνος chrónos, khron'-os

of uncertain derivation; a space of time (in general, and thus properly distinguished from G2540, which designates a fixed or special occasion; and from G165, which denotes a particular period) or interval; by extension, an individual opportunity; by implication, delay:—+ years old, season, space, (× often-)time(-s), (a) while.

masculine noun

It's an uncertain amount of time...it could by +- years old, at a certain time or season. So again, this can be a duel prophecy.
It happened in 70 AD and it will happen at the end of time. The Great White Throne Judgment...or to keep it simple Judgment day. He is speaking of both ages. The end of the Jewish age, where the Jewish covenant ends. And the End of the Age of Grace, which we are in now.

So it appears from that the definition of aion, that when it is translated as world, it doesn't mean earth or planet as a whole (that is kosmos), but more of a period of time for a group; like the Roman world or the Jewish world.

So when Christ uses the phrase: "the completion of the age", It is the end of the Jewish age or in other words, end of the Jewish world. It can also denote the end of the old covenant age/world, which is equal to the Jewish age/world.

The dual prophecy is where I would disagree with you. The old covenant age ended, but the kingdom of God will never end.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

what a sentence!
One version of Hell would be getting strapped to a chair and having to watch repeat episodes of MASH, eternally.

If it was only that easy.
M-Bob

 

[claninja]

Here is the same used above. He put away our sins eternally. It isn't about the age.

I would partially disagree. You are correct, that the main point of the passage is not about the completion of the ages, but about the putting away of sin. However, the writer of Hebrews is giving us a time frame. Christ did not enter heaven over and over again on our behalf, just like the priests had to enter into the holy of holies over and over again. Otherwise, he would have had to suffer many times over since the creation of the world (kosmos), in order to enter heaven multiple times for us. BUT Christ's sacrifice was perfect and only required once for all man kind. With just the one sacrifice he took away the sins of many.

So, Christ did not have to appear and suffer multiple times throughout the ages since the creation of world for mankind, but only once, NOW (author of Hebrews lifetime), which is the completion of the ages.

This passage does explain when the consummation of the ages will occur: the appearance of Christ to put away sin by his sacrifice.

 

[claninja]

Matthew 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
165. αἰών aion (aiṓn)
Search for G165 in KJVSL; in KJV.
αἰών aiṓn, ahee-ohn'

from the same as G104; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future):—age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the , while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.

Okay, this World is a messianic period either present or future. This is what is called a duel prophecy. We can also know this by comparing it to G5550
χρόνος chrónos, khron'-os

of uncertain derivation; a space of time (in general, and thus properly distinguished from G2540, which designates a fixed or special occasion; and from G165, which denotes a particular period) or interval; by extension, an individual opportunity; by implication, delay:—+ years old, season, space, (× often-)time(-s), (a) while.

masculine noun

It's an uncertain amount of time...it could by +- years old, at a certain time or season. So again, this can be a duel prophecy.
It happened in 70 AD and it will happen at the end of time. The Great White Throne Judgment...or to keep it simple Judgment day. He is speaking of both ages. The end of the Jewish age, where the Jewish covenant ends. And the End of the Age of Grace, which we are in now.





Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

foundation-
Strong's Greek Dictionary
2602. καταβολή katabole (katabolḗ)
Search for G2602 in KJVSL; in KJV.
καταβολή katabolḗ, kat-ab-ol-ay'

from G2598; a deposition, i.e. founding; figuratively, conception:—conceive, foundation.

feminine noun

of the world -
Strong's Greek Dictionary
2889. κόσμος kosmos (kósmos)
Search for G2889 in KJVSL; in KJV.
κόσμος kósmos, kos'-mos

probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively (morally)):—adorning, world.

This is speaking of the creation. Which we get the world cosmos from. I know self explanatory.

end of World -
Strong's Greek Dictionary
4930. συντέλεια synteleia (syntéleia)
Search for G4930 in KJVSL; in KJV.
συντέλεια syntéleia, soon-tel'-i-ah

from G4931; entire completion, i.e. consummation (of a dispensation):—end.

feminine noun
Strong's Greek Dictionary
165. αἰών aion (aiṓn)
Search for G165 in KJVSL; in KJV.
αἰών aiṓn, ahee-ohn'

from the same as G104; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future):—age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the , while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.

masculine noun

Here is the same used above. He put away our sins eternally. It isn't about the age.

"You also have to remember, Paul was convinced Christ was going to return, before He was called home. So He preached as if that was the case."

This is interesting. Do you think if Paul knew Christ wouldn't comeback for 2000+ years that he would have preached differently?

 

[claninja]

Matthew 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
165. αἰών aion (aiṓn)
Search for G165 in KJVSL; in KJV.
αἰών aiṓn, ahee-ohn'

from the same as G104; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future):—age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the , while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.

Okay, this World is a messianic period either present or future. This is what is called a duel prophecy. We can also know this by comparing it to G5550
χρόνος chrónos, khron'-os

of uncertain derivation; a space of time (in general, and thus properly distinguished from G2540, which designates a fixed or special occasion; and from G165, which denotes a particular period) or interval; by extension, an individual opportunity; by implication, delay:—+ years old, season, space, (× often-)time(-s), (a) while.

masculine noun

It's an uncertain amount of time...it could by +- years old, at a certain time or season. So again, this can be a duel prophecy.
It happened in 70 AD and it will happen at the end of time. The Great White Throne Judgment...or to keep it simple Judgment day. He is speaking of both ages. The end of the Jewish age, where the Jewish covenant ends. And the End of the Age of Grace, which we are in now.





Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

foundation-
Strong's Greek Dictionary
2602. καταβολή katabole (katabolḗ)
Search for G2602 in KJVSL; in KJV.
καταβολή katabolḗ, kat-ab-ol-ay'

from G2598; a deposition, i.e. founding; figuratively, conception:—conceive, foundation.

feminine noun

of the world -
Strong's Greek Dictionary
2889. κόσμος kosmos (kósmos)
Search for G2889 in KJVSL; in KJV.
κόσμος kósmos, kos'-mos

probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively (morally)):—adorning, world.

This is speaking of the creation. Which we get the world cosmos from. I know self explanatory.

end of World -
Strong's Greek Dictionary
4930. συντέλεια synteleia (syntéleia)
Search for G4930 in KJVSL; in KJV.
συντέλεια syntéleia, soon-tel'-i-ah

from G4931; entire completion, i.e. consummation (of a dispensation):—end.

feminine noun
Strong's Greek Dictionary
165. αἰών aion (aiṓn)
Search for G165 in KJVSL; in KJV.
αἰών aiṓn, ahee-ohn'

from the same as G104; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future):—age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the , while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.

masculine noun

Here is the same used above. He put away our sins eternally. It isn't about the age.

"At that time - referes to the events predicted in the previous paragraph (not shown; 11:36-45) which details the antichrist's furious attempt to destroy and annihilate the Jewish people (11:44).
Then the archangel Michael who stands watch over the Jewish people will rise to their defense to preserve them. This will be be necessary because the great tribulation (the second half of Daniels seventieth week: Dan 9:27) will be a time of unprecedented trouble. Despite the horrific nature of the persecution of Israel, the result will be that the surviving remnant of the Jewish nation will turn in faith to their Messiah Jesus (Zech 12:10; Rom 11:25-27) and He will deliver them. He will deliver them. The book refers to the heavenly Book of Life in which the names of the elect are listed (Ps 69:28; Php 4:3; Rev. 13:8;17:8;20:15)"

So would you say that Daniel 11-12 is also dual prophecy?
I would say Daniel 11 has already occured.
In Romans 9-11, Paul confirms that a remant of the believing Jews have been saved.

 

[claninja]

Matthew 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
165. αἰών aion (aiṓn)
Search for G165 in KJVSL; in KJV.
αἰών aiṓn, ahee-ohn'

from the same as G104; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future):—age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the , while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.

Okay, this World is a messianic period either present or future. This is what is called a duel prophecy. We can also know this by comparing it to G5550
χρόνος chrónos, khron'-os

of uncertain derivation; a space of time (in general, and thus properly distinguished from G2540, which designates a fixed or special occasion; and from G165, which denotes a particular period) or interval; by extension, an individual opportunity; by implication, delay:—+ years old, season, space, (× often-)time(-s), (a) while.

masculine noun

It's an uncertain amount of time...it could by +- years old, at a certain time or season. So again, this can be a duel prophecy.
It happened in 70 AD and it will happen at the end of time. The Great White Throne Judgment...or to keep it simple Judgment day. He is speaking of both ages. The end of the Jewish age, where the Jewish covenant ends. And the End of the Age of Grace, which we are in now.





Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

foundation-
Strong's Greek Dictionary
2602. καταβολή katabole (katabolḗ)
Search for G2602 in KJVSL; in KJV.
καταβολή katabolḗ, kat-ab-ol-ay'

from G2598; a deposition, i.e. founding; figuratively, conception:—conceive, foundation.

feminine noun

of the world -
Strong's Greek Dictionary
2889. κόσμος kosmos (kósmos)
Search for G2889 in KJVSL; in KJV.
κόσμος kósmos, kos'-mos

probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively (morally)):—adorning, world.

This is speaking of the creation. Which we get the world cosmos from. I know self explanatory.

end of World -
Strong's Greek Dictionary
4930. συντέλεια synteleia (syntéleia)
Search for G4930 in KJVSL; in KJV.
συντέλεια syntéleia, soon-tel'-i-ah

from G4931; entire completion, i.e. consummation (of a dispensation):—end.

feminine noun
Strong's Greek Dictionary
165. αἰών aion (aiṓn)
Search for G165 in KJVSL; in KJV.
αἰών aiṓn, ahee-ohn'

from the same as G104; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future):—age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the , while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.

masculine noun

Here is the same used above. He put away our sins eternally. It isn't about the age.

"This has preceding scriptures starting at v5.
Daniel saw two more angels, who served as witnesses for the oath of the linen-dressed angel (10:5). Two was the minimum number of witnesses necessary for an oath (Deut 19:15). One of the witnessing angels asked how long until the end of the predicted time of distress (tribulation). The tribulation (The second half of Daniels seventieth week) would be for be for a time, times, and an half of a time, or three and one-half years (7:25;Rev 21:7). By the end of the great tribulation Israel's power will be gone, causing them to turn in faith to their long-rejected Messiah Jesus (Zech 12:10). At that time. He will return and deliever them (Zech 14:1-21) and all these things shall be finished.

Both of these are at the end of the Age of Grace."

So this is also dual prophecy?

 

[claninja]

Matthew 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
165. αἰών aion (aiṓn)
Search for G165 in KJVSL; in KJV.
αἰών aiṓn, ahee-ohn'

from the same as G104; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future):—age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the , while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.

Okay, this World is a messianic period either present or future. This is what is called a duel prophecy. We can also know this by comparing it to G5550
χρόνος chrónos, khron'-os

of uncertain derivation; a space of time (in general, and thus properly distinguished from G2540, which designates a fixed or special occasion; and from G165, which denotes a particular period) or interval; by extension, an individual opportunity; by implication, delay:—+ years old, season, space, (× often-)time(-s), (a) while.

masculine noun

It's an uncertain amount of time...it could by +- years old, at a certain time or season. So again, this can be a duel prophecy.
It happened in 70 AD and it will happen at the end of time. The Great White Throne Judgment...or to keep it simple Judgment day. He is speaking of both ages. The end of the Jewish age, where the Jewish covenant ends. And the End of the Age of Grace, which we are in now.





Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

foundation-
Strong's Greek Dictionary
2602. καταβολή katabole (katabolḗ)
Search for G2602 in KJVSL; in KJV.
καταβολή katabolḗ, kat-ab-ol-ay'

from G2598; a deposition, i.e. founding; figuratively, conception:—conceive, foundation.

feminine noun

of the world -
Strong's Greek Dictionary
2889. κόσμος kosmos (kósmos)
Search for G2889 in KJVSL; in KJV.
κόσμος kósmos, kos'-mos

probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively (morally)):—adorning, world.

This is speaking of the creation. Which we get the world cosmos from. I know self explanatory.

end of World -
Strong's Greek Dictionary
4930. συντέλεια synteleia (syntéleia)
Search for G4930 in KJVSL; in KJV.
συντέλεια syntéleia, soon-tel'-i-ah

from G4931; entire completion, i.e. consummation (of a dispensation):—end.

feminine noun
Strong's Greek Dictionary
165. αἰών aion (aiṓn)
Search for G165 in KJVSL; in KJV.
αἰών aiṓn, ahee-ohn'

from the same as G104; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future):—age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the , while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.

masculine noun

Here is the same used above. He put away our sins eternally. It isn't about the age.

"Not quite, no rapture. Or taking away of the saints.
1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Most importantly...Israel still doesn't see Christ as the Messiah. And they will at the end."

Why would this mortal have to put on immortality if, according you, we are already immortal: immortal souls?

Technically, every one will see Christ as the Messiah in the end.

 

[Edmond Smith]

So it appears from that the definition of aion, that when it is translated as world, it doesn't mean earth or planet as a whole (that is kosmos), but more of a period of time for a group; like the Roman world or the Jewish world.

So when Christ uses the phrase: "the completion of the age", It is the end of the Jewish age or in other words, end of the Jewish world. It can also denote the end of the old covenant age/world, which is equal to the Jewish age/world.

The dual prophecy is where I would disagree with you. The old covenant age ended, but the kingdom of God will never end.

I agree. It is speaking of the Church Age. No, Church Age is not in the Bible. It's a theologian, description. Now, Matthew Henry Commentary has a great exposition of those scriptures.
It's long. But I think it will help.

The parable of the tares, and the exposition of it; they must be taken together, for the exposition explains the parable and the parable illustrates the exposition.

Observe, 1. The disciples' request to their Master to have this parable expounded to them (Mt 13:36); Jesus sent the multitude away; and it is to be feared many of them went away no wiser than they came; they had heard a sound of words, and that was all. It is sad to think how many go away from sermons without the word of grace in their hearts. Christ went into the house, not so much for his own repose, as for particular converse with his disciples, whose instruction he chiefly intended in all his preaching. He was ready to do good in all places; the disciples laid hold on the opportunity, and they came to him. Note, Those who would be wise for every thing else, must be wise to discern and improve their opportunities, especially of converse with Christ, of converse with him alone, in secret meditation and prayer. It is very good, when we return from the solemn assembly, to talk over what we have heard there, and by familiar discourse to help one another to understand and remember it, and to be affected with it; for we lose the benefit of many a sermon by vain and unprofitable discourse after it. See Lu 24:32; De 6:6-7. It is especially good, if it may be, to ask of the ministers of the word the meaning of the word, for their lips should keep knowledge, Mal 2:7. Private conference would contribute much to our profiting by public preaching. Nathan's Thou art the man, was that which touched David to the heart.

The disciples' request to their Master was, Declare unto us the parable of the tares. This implied an acknowledgement of their ignorance, which they were not ashamed to make. It is probable they apprehended the general scope of the parable, but they desired to understand it more particularly, and to be assured that they took it right. Note, Those are rightly disposed for Christ's teaching, that are sensible of their ignorance, and sincerely desirous to be taught. He will teach the humble (Ps 25:8-9), but will for this be enquired of. If any man lack instruction, let him ask it of God. Christ had expounded the foregoing parable unasked, but for the exposition of this they ask him. Note, The mercies we have received must be improved, both for direction what to pray for, and for our encouragement in prayer. The first light and the first grace are given in a preventing way, further degrees of both which must be daily prayed for.

2. The exposition Christ gave of the parable, in answer to their request; so ready is Christ to answer such desires of his disciples. Now the drift of the parable is, to represent to us the present and future state of the kingdom of heaven, the gospel church: Christ's care of it, the devil's enmity against it, the mixture that there is in it of good and bad in the other world. Note, The visible church is the kingdom of heaven; though there be many hypocrites in it, Christ rules in it as a King; and there is a remnant in it, that are the subjects and heirs of heaven, from whom, as the better part, it is denominated: the church is the kingdom of heaven upon earth.

Let us go over the particulars of the exposition of the parable.

(1.) He that sows the good seed is the Son of man. Jesus Christ is the Lord of the field, the Lord of the harvest, the Sower of good seed. When he ascended on high, he gave gifts to the world; not only good ministers, but other good men. Note, Whatever good seed there is in the world, it all comes from the hand of Christ, and is of his sowing: truths preached, graces planted, souls sanctified, are good seed, and all owing to Christ. Ministers are instruments in Christ's hand to sow good seed; are employed by him and under him, and the success of their labours depends purely upon his blessing; so that it may well be said, It is Christ, and no other, that sows the good seed; he is the Son of man, one of us, that his terror might not make us afraid; the Son of man, the Mediator, and that has authority.

(2.) The field is the world; the world of mankind, a large field, capable of bringing forth good fruit; the more is it to be lamented that it brings forth so much bad fruit: the world here is the visible church, scattered all the world over, not confined to one nation. Observe, In the parable it is called his field; the world is Christ's field, for all things are delivered unto him of the Father: whatever power and interest the devil has in the world, it is usurped and unjust; when Christ comes to take possession, he comes whose right it is; it is his field, and because it is his he took care to sow it with good seed.

(3.) The good seed are the children of the kingdom, true saints. They are, [1.] The children of the kingdom; not in profession only, as the Jews were (Mt 8:12), but in sincerity; Jews inwardly, Israelites indeed, incorporated in faith and obedience to Jesus Christ the great King of the church. [2.] They are the good seed, precious as seed, Ps 126:6. The seed is the substance of the field; so the holy seed, Isa 6:13. The seed is scattered, so are the saints; dispersed, here one and there another, though in some places thicker sown than in others. The seed is that from which fruit is expected; what fruit of honour and service God has from this world he has from the saints, whom he has sown unto himself in the earth, Ho 2:23.

(4.) The tares are the children of the wicked one. Here is the character of sinners, hypocrites, and all profane and wicked people. [1.] They are the children of the devil, as a wicked one. Though they do not own his name, yet they bear his image, do his lusts, and from him they have their education; he rules over them, he works in them, Eph 2:2; Joh 8:44. [2.] They are tares in the field of this world; they do no good, they do hurt; unprofitable in themselves, and hurtful to the good seed, both by temptation and persecution: they are weeds in the garden, have the same rain, and sunshine, and soil, with the good plants, but are good for nothing: the tares are among the wheat. Note, God has so ordered it, that good and bad should be mixed together in this world, that the good may be exercised, the bad left inexcusable, and a difference made between earth and heaven.

(5.) The enemy that sowed the tares is the devil; a sworn enemy to Christ and all that is good, to the glory of the good God, and the comfort and happiness of all good men. He is an enemy to the field of the world, which he endeavours to make his own, by sowing his tares in it. Ever since he became a wicked spirit himself, he has been industrious to promote wickedness, and has made it his business, aiming therein to counterwork Christ.

Now concerning the sowing of the tares, observe in the parable,

[1.] That they were sown while men slept. Magistrates slept, who by their power, ministers slept, who by their preaching, should have prevented this mischief. Note, Satan watches all opportunities, and lays hold of all advantages, to propagate vice and profaneness. The prejudice he does to particular persons is when reason and conscience sleep, when they are off their guard; we have therefore need to be sober, and vigilant. It was in the night, for that is the sleeping time. Note, Satan rules in the darkness of this world; that gives him an opportunity to sow tares, Ps 104:20. It was while men slept; and there is no remedy but men must have some sleeping time. Note, It is as impossible for us to prevent hypocrites being in the church, as it is for the husbandman, when he is asleep, to hinder an enemy from spoiling his field.

[2.] The enemy, when he had sown the tares, went his way (Mt 13:25), that it might not be known who did it. Note, When Satan is doing the greatest mischief, he studies most to conceal himself; for his design is in danger of being spoiled if he be seen in it; and therefore, when he comes to sow tares, he transforms himself into an angel of light, 2Co 11:13-14. He went his way, as if he had done no harm; such is the way of the adulterous woman, Pr 30:20. Observe, Such is the proneness of fallen man to sin, that if the enemy sow the tares, he may even go his way, they will spring up of themselves and do hurt; whereas, when good seed is sown, it must be tended, watered, and fenced, or it will come to nothing.

[3.] The tares appeared not till the blade sprung up, and brought forth fruit, Mt 13:26. There is a great deal of secret wickedness in the hearts of men, which is long hid under the cloak of a plausible profession, but breaks out at last. As the good seed, so the tares, lie a great while under the clods, and at first springing up, it is hard to distinguish them; but when a trying time comes, when fruit is to be brought forth, when good is to be done that has difficulty and hazard attending it, then you will return and discern between the sincere and the hypocrite: then you may say, This is wheat, and that is tares.

[4.] The servants, when they were aware of it, complained to their master (Mt 13:27); Sir, didst thou not sow good seed in thy field? No doubt he did; whatever is amiss in the church, we are sure it is not of Christ: considering the seed which Christ sows, we may well ask, with wonder, Whence should these tares come? Note, The rise of errors, the breaking out of scandals, and the growth of profaneness, are matter of great grief to all the servants of Christ; especially to his faithful ministers, who are directed to complain of it to him whose the field is. It is sad to see such tares, such weeds, in the garden of the Lord; to see the good soil wasted, the good seed choked, and such a reflection cast on the name and honour of Christ, as if his field were no better than the field of the slothful, all grown over with thorns.

[5.] The Master was soon aware whence it was (Mt 13:28); An enemy has done this. He does not lay the blame upon the servants; they could not help it, but had done what was in their power to prevent it. Note, The ministers of Christ, that are faithful and diligent, shall not be judged of Christ, and therefore should not be reproached by men, for the mixtures of bad with good, hypocrites with the sincere, in the field of the church. It must needs be that such offences will come; and they shall not be laid to our charge, if we do our duty, though it have not the desired success. Though they sleep, if they do not love sleep; though tares be sown, if they do not sow them nor water them, nor allow of them, the blame shall not lie at their door.

[6.] The servants were very forward to have these tares rooted up. "Wilt thou that we go and do it presently?" Note, The over-hasty and inconsiderate zeal of Christ's servants, before they have consulted with their Master, is sometimes ready, with the hazard of the church, to root out all that they presume to be tares: Lord, wilt thou that we call for fire from heaven?

[7.] The Master very wisely prevented this (Mt 13:29); Nay, lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Note, It is not possible for any man infallibly to distinguish between tares and wheat, but he may be mistaken; and therefore such is the wisdom and grace of Christ, that he will rather permit the tares, than any way endanger the wheat. It is certain, scandalous offenders are to be censured, and we are to withdraw from them; those who are openly the children of the wicked one, are not to be admitted to special ordinances; yet it is possible there may be a discipline, either so mistaken in its rules, or so over-nice in the application of them, as may prove vexatious to many that are truly godly and conscientious. Great caution and moderation must be used in inflicting and continuing church censures, lest the wheat be trodden down, if not plucked up. The wisdom from above, as it is pure, so it is peaceable, and those who oppose themselves must not be cut off, but instructed, and with meekness, 2Ti 2:25. The tares, if continued under the means of grace, may become good corn; therefore have patience with them.

(6.) The harvest is the end of the world, Mt 13:39. This world will have an end; though it continue long, it will not continue always; time will shortly be swallowed up in eternity. At the end of the world, there will be a great harvest-day, a day of judgment; at harvest all is ripe and ready to be cut down: both good and bad are ripe at the great-day, Re 6:11. It is the harvest of the earth, Re 14:15. At harvest the reapers cut down all before them; not a field, not a corner, is left behind; so at the great day all must be judged (Re 20:12-13); God has set a harvest (Ho 6:11), and it shall not fail, Ge 8:22. At harvest every man reaps as he sowed; every man's ground, and seed, and skill, and industry, will be manifested: see Ga 6:7-8. Then they who sowed precious seed, will come again with rejoicing (Ps 126:5-6), with the joy of harvest (Isa 9:3); when the sluggard, who would not plough by reason of cold, shall beg, and have nothing (Pr 20:4); shall cry, Lord, Lord, but in vain; when the harvest of those who sowed to the flesh, shall be a day of grief, and of desperate sorrow, Isa 17:11.

(7.) The reapers are the angels: they shall be employed, in the great day, in executing Christ's righteous sentences, both of approbation and condemnation, as ministers of his justice, Mt 25:31. The angels are skilful, strong, and swift, obedient servants to Christ, holy enemies to the wicked, and faithful friends to all the saints, and therefore fit to be thus employed. He that reapeth receiveth wages, and the angels will not be unpaid for their attendance; for he that soweth, and he that reapeth, shall rejoice together (Joh 4:36); that is joy in heaven in the presence of the angels of God.

(8.) Hell-torments are the fire, into which the tares shall then be cast, and in which they shall be burned. At the great day a distinction will be made, and with it a vast difference; it will be a notable day indeed.

[1.] The tares will then be gathered out: The reapers (whose primary work it is to gather in the corn) shall be charged first to gather out the tares. Note, Though good and bad are together in this world undistinguished, yet at the great day they shall be parted; no tares shall then be among the wheat; no sinners among the saints: then you shall plainly discern between the righteous and the wicked, which here sometimes it is hard to do, Mal 3:18-4:1. Christ will not bear always, Ps 50:1, &c. They shall gather out of his kingdom all wicked things that offend, and all wicked persons that do iniquity: when he begins, he will make a full end. All those corrupt doctrines, worships, and practices, which have offended, have been scandals to the church, and stumbling-blocks to men's consciences, shall be condemned by the righteous Judge in that day, and consumed by the brightness of his coming; all the wood, hay, and stubble (1Co 3:12); and then woe to them that do iniquity, that make a trade of it, and persist in it; not only those in the last age of Christ's kingdom upon earth, but those in every age. Perhaps here is an allusion to Zep 1:3, I will consume the stumbling-blocks with the wicked.

[2.] They will then be bound in bundles, Mt 13:30. Sinners of the same sort will be bundled together in the great day: a bundle of atheists, a bundle of epicures, a bundle of persecutors, and a great bundle of hypocrites. Those who have been associates in sin, will be so in shame and sorrow; and it will be an aggravation of their misery, as the society of glorified saints will add to their bliss. Let us pray, as David, Lord, gather not my soul with sinners (Ps 26:9), but let it be bound in the bundle of life, with the Lord our God, 1Sa 25:29. [3.] They will be cast into a furnace of fire; such will be the end of wicked, mischievous people, that are in the church as tares in the field; they are fit for nothing but fire; to it they shall go, it is the fittest place for them. Note, Hell is a furnace of fire, kindled by the wrath of God, and kept burning by the bundles of tares cast into it, who will be ever in the consuming, but never consumed. But he slides out of the metaphor into a description of those torments that are designed to be set forth by it: There shall be weeping, and gnashing of teeth; comfortless sorrow, and an incurable indignation at God, themselves, and one another, will be the endless torture of damned souls. Let us therefore, knowing these terrors of the Lord, be persuaded not to do iniquity.

(9.) Heaven is the barn into which all God's wheat shall be gathered in that harvest-day. But gather the wheat into my barn: so it is in the parable, Mt 13:30. Note, [1.] In the field of this world good people are the wheat, the most precious grain, and the valuable part of the field. [2.] This wheat shall shortly be gathered, gathered from among the tares and weeds: all gathered together in a general assembly, all the Old-Testament saints, all the New-Testament saints, not one missing. Gather my saints together unto me, Ps 50:5. [3.] All God's wheat shall be lodged together in God's barn: particular souls are housed at death as a shock of corn (Job 5:26), but the general in-gathering will be at the end of time: God's wheat will then be put together, and no longer scattered; there will be sheaves of corn, as well as bundles of tares: they will then be secured, and no longer exposed to wind and weather, sin and sorrow: no longer afar off, and at a great distance, in the field, but near, in the barn. Nay, heaven is a garner (Mt 3:12), in which the wheat will not only be separated from the tares of ill companions, but sifted from the chaff of their own corruptions.

In the explanation of the parable, this is gloriously represented (Mt 13:43); Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. First, It is their present honour, that God is their Father. Now are we the sons of God (1Jo 3:2); our Father in heaven is King there. Christ, when he went to heaven, went to his Father, and our Father, Joh 20:17. It is our Father's house, nay, it is our Father's palace, his throne, Re 3:21. Secondly, The honour in reserve for them is, that they shall shine forth as the sun in that kingdom. Here they are obscure and hidden (Col 3:3), their beauty is eclipsed by their poverty, and the meanness of their outward condition; their own weaknesses and infirmities, and the reproach and disgrace cast upon them, cloud them; but then they shall shine forth as the sun from behind a dark cloud; at death they shall shine forth to themselves; at the great day they will shine forth publicly before all the world, their bodies will be made like Christ's glorious body: they shall shine by reflection, with a light borrowed from the Fountain of light; their sanctification will be perfected, and their justification published; God will own them for his children, and will produce the record of all their services and sufferings for his name: they shall shine as the sun, the most glorious of all visible beings. The glory of the saints is in the Old Testament compared to that of the firmament and the stars, but here to that of the sun; for life and immortality are brought to a much clearer light by the gospel, than under the law. Those who shine as lights in this world, that God may be glorified, shall shine as the sun in the other world, that they may be glorified. Our Saviour concludes, as before, with a demand of attention; Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. These are things which it is our happiness to hear of, and our duty to hearken to.

 

[Edmond Smith]

I would partially disagree. You are correct, that the main point of the passage is not about the completion of the ages, but about the putting away of sin. However, the writer of Hebrews is giving us a time frame. Christ did not enter heaven over and over again on our behalf, just like the priests had to enter into the holy of holies over and over again. Otherwise, he would have had to suffer many times over since the creation of the world (kosmos), in order to enter heaven multiple times for us. BUT Christ's sacrifice was perfect and only required once for all man kind. With just the one sacrifice he took away the sins of many.

So, Christ did not have to appear and suffer multiple times throughout the ages since the creation of world for mankind, but only once, NOW (author of Hebrews lifetime), which is the completion of the ages.

This passage does explain when the consummation of the ages will occur: the appearance of Christ to put away sin by his sacrifice.

I agree wholeheartedly. If I made it sound like He did. Forgive me. Because I know He did just as you posted. Was not my intent.

 

[Edmond Smith]

"You also have to remember, Paul was convinced Christ was going to return, before He was called home. So He preached as if that was the case."

This is interesting. Do you think if Paul knew Christ wouldn't comeback for 2000+ years that he would have preached differently?

You know, from what I gather of Paul's personality...NAH!!!...LOL...He would have preached like Christ was standing at the door. As we should.