the Covid Vaccine and the Christian thing to do

[Bobber]

I've read a particular believer say we are NOT being Christian if we dont take the vaccine. Because we MIGHT save someone's life. Is that scriptural?

What say you?

I say you're on a road to nowhere by asking the question. Some people think a Christian shouldn't take the vaccine for they should be interested in saving other people from doing so as well thinking they'll be physically compromised if they do so.

So one side can claim all they want you're not being loving people. Their claim isn't going to make the other side feel that they're not.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I think we've strayed from the topic a bit. Let's get back on track.

Jesus told us to love people. Love them as we love ourselves. Would Jesus said no greater love exists other than to lay your life down for a friend. This would all seem to imply that we should sacrifice our rights for others, even to our own detriment.

Or does it? Are we in disobedience to these principles in sscripture for not taking the vaccine? Or does the scripture teach any sort of thing?

I've read a particular believer say we are NOT being Christian if we dont take the vaccine. Because we MIGHT save someone's life. Is that scriptural?

What say you?

I share a house with a friend who has some health issues and is 69. If she gets COVID, I'm not sure she would survive. I've had the first jab. I thought and prayed for a long time first. I react badly to the old style flu vaccines. I had only mild side effects with the COVID vaccine. She is not keen on vaccination and I'm not pushing her. I hope she does as it will put my mind at ease.

It's a matter of conscience, but I would hate to pass on COVID to a friend who then died. I'm 70, so I could be in trouble myself. Some say that only 1% of victims die. I find it hard to imagine how people could be so cold hearted. These are real people, not statistics.

 

[Job 33:6]

I think that if someone goes around spreading covid, or doesn't take precautions to prevent themselves from getting covid, or goes out in public when they have covid and is in close proximity to or breathing on other people, these are all actions that I would consider to be counter scriptural because they could feasibly result in the death of someone else.

Getting vaccinated could be viewed as an effort to protect others or to do a service to others more vulnerable. But if someone feels uncomfortable with vaccination, they could still be a good Christian and try to social distance and make efforts not to spread covid, should they be infected.

I think the real Christian thing to do is to be mindful of the health and wellbeing of others, and to seek out ways to serve others.

 

[hislegacy]

Despite ones concern about the safety or their rights being violated regarding getting the vaccine, isn't getting the vaccine more Christ centric. Jesus gave up his rights for us. Shouldn't we give up our rights and our freedom for the benefit of others? It seems we would be in a bit of trouble if Christ was overly concerned about his own safety and rights. (I'm not interested in the "this is not a serious disease" or "the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease itself" as these are topics for another debate.

Why would Jesus not just heal them?

 

[Bobber]

Vaccine passports may or may not be the mark of the beast, ....

They're not. There doesn't need to be ANY question mark left about that.

....it becomes abundantly clear that the mark is at least dangerously close to these passports, and they will likely evolve over time.

Perhaps but vaccine passports could be cancelled in some countries in the days ahead too. Or maybe not. But the idea something COULD evolve over time into something else well true...but then maybe not. Let's say paper currency and coinage was phased out and everything went digital. Some could say the mark of the beast will appear any time but it could be another 100 years before it actually would.

Bonus topic... By thy sorceries was the rest of the world deceived. Sorcery is the english word for the greek, pharmakeia, which is drugs, specifically of the medical variety.

Where are you getting this "specificallly of the medical variety"?? And really how is it fair to even call a vaccine a drug? Surely you would have to admit it not. And if you're going to stand against what we consider pharmaceutical today then you can't pick and choose right? Pharmaceutical today provide saving medicines YES many of them have warning labels even like heart medicines or a whole host of other things...but are you saying one should never take them? Would you deny they've saved lives and have you always turned down all medicines a doctor has prescribed you? I'm guessing you haven't

I think the link below provides a more balanced look at what pharmakeia means.

Galatians 5:19 has the word pharmakeia which means the use and administration of drugs. Why does the NIV translate it as witchcraft? – Evidence for Christianity

 

[rjs330]

I share a house with a friend who has some health issues and is 69. If she gets COVID, I'm not sure she would survive. I've had the first jab. I thought and prayed for a long time first. I react badly to the old style flu vaccines. I had only mild side effects with the COVID vaccine. She is not keen on vaccination and I'm not pushing her. I hope she does as it will put my mind at ease.

It's a matter of conscience, but I would hate to pass on COVID to a friend who then died. I'm 70, so I could be in trouble myself. Some say that only 1% of victims die. I find it hard to imagine how people could be so cold hearted. These are real people, not statistics.

Yes they are real people. And I believe the statistics for your age group is pretty significant. In the US I believe the older folks are pretty much all vaccinated. At least those who really wanted it. I am sure there are some that didn't want it and a tiny minority who couldn't get it, due to other issues.

So, if you don't want to get it, it have a better chance at recovery, get vaccinated. As we have seen though this vaccine doesn't keep you from spreading it, cause you can still be a carrier with the same viral load.

I don't really know what Jesus would say about this. Love your neighbor. Is it unloving for a Christian not to get vaccinated? Is it sinful?

 

[power1]

Despite ones concern about the safety or their rights being violated regarding getting the vaccine, isn't getting the vaccine more Christ centric. Jesus gave up his rights for us. Shouldn't we give up our rights and our freedom for the benefit of others? It seems we would be in a bit of trouble if Christ was overly concerned about his own safety and rights. (I'm not interested in the "this is not a serious disease" or "the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease itself" as these are topics for another debate.

No. The stats are bogus. Reporting is not honest. The deaths and serious injuries are not reported honestly, far as I can see either. The Christian thing is to trust Christ.

 

[Job 33:6]

Yes they are real people. And I believe the statistics for your age group is pretty significant. In the US I believe the older folks are pretty much all vaccinated. At least those who really wanted it. I am sure there are some that didn't want it and a tiny minority who couldn't get it, due to other issues.

So, if you don't want to get it, it have a better chance at recovery, get vaccinated. As we have seen though this vaccine doesn't keep you from spreading it, cause you can still be a carrier with the same viral load.

I don't really know what Jesus would say about this. Love your neighbor. Is it unloving for a Christian not to get vaccinated? Is it sinful?

A. These vaccines do prevent people from getting covid-19 at rates between 60-80% depending on the vaccine.
B. Viral loads are shed faster and by those vaccinated, meaning that vaccinated people slow transmission of the virus both by not getting covid-19 and if by chance they do get the virus, they shed less viral particles.

The confusion in point B comes when anti-vaxxers confused "peak viral load" with "total viral load". At a point in time, a breakthrough case may have a similar viral load as a non breakthrough case, but in the total duration of transmissibility, the vaccinated shed less viral particles.

Please stop spreading misinformation.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Yes they are real people. And I believe the statistics for your age group is pretty significant. In the US I believe the older folks are pretty much all vaccinated. At least those who really wanted it. I am sure there are some that didn't want it and a tiny minority who couldn't get it, due to other issues.

So, if you don't want to get it, it have a better chance at recovery, get vaccinated. As we have seen though this vaccine doesn't keep you from spreading it, cause you can still be a carrier with the same viral load.

I don't really know what Jesus would say about this. Love your neighbor. Is it unloving for a Christian not to get vaccinated? Is it sinful?

Well it is sinful for me, because my conscience says so. I'm keen for my friend to get the jab, but she is one who cannot be rushed.

 

[lismore]

Shouldn't we give up our rights and our freedom for the benefit of others? I

After a family situation my viewpoint on this is solidifying. To make a long story short, some relatives, anti-vaxxers into what I would term conspiracy theories, ignoring all the requirements, caught covid, one nearly died. But because even after receiving a positive covid test they ignored the requirements, they passed it onto others, another elderly vulnerable relative who was (PTL) vaccinated but didn't know that they were covid positive had met with them, a prayer meeting and displayed symptoms for several weeks.

I think the stakes here are too high for people to play Russian roulette with other people's lives.

But I'm not advocating here anything other than sadness. How many lives have been lost because some narcissistic people would not follow the rules. It's heart-breaking. God Bless All

 

[Aussie Pete]

After a family situation my viewpoint on this is solidifying. To make a long story short, some relatives, anti-vaxxers into what I would term conspiracy theories, ignoring all the requirements, caught covid, one nearly died. But because even after receiving a positive covid test they ignored the requirements, they passed it onto others, another elderly vulnerable relative who was (PTL) vaccinated but didn't know that they were covid positive had met with them, a prayer meeting and displayed symptoms for several weeks.

I think the stakes here are too high for people to play Russian roulette with other people's lives.

But I'm not advocating here anything other than sadness. How many lives have been lost because some narcissistic people would not follow the rules. It's heart-breaking. God Bless All

Yes. My primary reason for getting vaccinated is to protect my 69 yo old friend who is not and may not get vaccinated. She has her own reasons and I am not keen to push the issue. She hardly leaves her home, so it is not a problem for now.

 

[Bobber]

I think the stakes here are too high for people to play Russian roulette with other people's lives.

But I'm not advocating here anything other than sadness. How many lives have been lost because some narcissistic people would not follow the rules. It's heart-breaking. God Bless All

But then it's known vaccinated now can still get Covid and spread it and yet sports events are allowed to have stadiums full again with only vaccinated (passports at the doors) many of them not wearing masks. So isn't this playing Russian roulette with people's lives too?

 

[Aussie Pete]

But then it's known vaccinated now can still get Covid and spread it and yet sports events are allowed to have stadiums full again with only vaccinated (passports at the doors) many of them not wearing masks. So isn't this playing Russian roulette with people's lives too?

There is a limit to the restrictions that people will accept in a democracy. The risks for vaccinated people are much lower than unvaccinated. Not zero, but what is the alternative? Russian roulette with 99 out of 100 unloaded chambers is far safer than with 5 out 6.

 

[Bobber]

There is a limit to the restrictions that people will accept in a democracy. The risks for vaccinated people are much lower than unvaccinated. Not zero, but what is the alternative? Russian roulette with 99 out of 100 unloaded chambers is far safer than with 5 out 6.

But you don't think that's extremely, extremely optimistic saying 99 chances out of a 100 they'll all be fine if they can still catch covid and spread it? I'm thinking the jury is still out to even begin to make such an assessment. One thing for certain though. The unvaccinated will be blamed and wouldn't even have been at these massive what was once called spreader events. I wonder if we could be headed for the most unjust accusation in human history.

 

[Aussie Pete]

But you don't think that's extremely, extremely optimistic saying 99 chances out of a 100 they'll all be fine if they can still catch covid and spread it? I'm thinking the jury is still out to even begin to make such an assessment. One thing for certain though. The unvaccinated will be blamed and wouldn't even have been at these massive what was once called spreader events. I wonder if we could be headed for the most unjust accusation in human history.

The "99/100" figure is is just an example."5/6" is the typical revolver load.

There is no zero risk, as the unfortunate Colin Powell case demonstrates. People have died from ordinary flu. But surely when there is a way to mitigate the problem, it should be taken.

COVID has been around long enough for some reasonable observations to be made. The greatest risk for the unvaccinated is to themselves. Australia's experience is that family interactions are more likely to spread COVID than large scale events. If the vaccination rate is sufficient, eventually the pandemic will die out. People will be immune or deceased. I think that the attitude that deaths are inevitable is pretty sad. I suspect if it was spouse, parent, loved one, friend or someone admired and respected, some people would rethink that attitude


Sceptics also seem to forget the load on the health system. We have a reasonable and affordable system in Australia. It is crumbling under the load of COVID patients. Elective treatments are being deferred indefinitely and ICU's are struggling to cope. People worry about long term effects of the vaccine, which is unwarranted. However, some COVID sufferers do not fully recover and struggle with every day life. Hopefully some of the new medications will help.

About 5 years ago, I had a minor procedure that effectively gave my my life back. If I was in the same position now, I would be stuck with the problem, which was making my life miserable.

 

[rjs330]

A. These vaccines do prevent people from getting covid-19 at rates between 60-80% depending on the vaccine.
B. Viral loads are shed faster and by those vaccinated, meaning that vaccinated people slow transmission of the virus both by not getting covid-19 and if by chance they do get the virus, they shed less viral particles.

The confusion in point B comes when anti-vaxxers confused "peak viral load" with "total viral load". At a point in time, a breakthrough case may have a similar viral load as a non breakthrough case, but in the total duration of transmissibility, the vaccinated shed less viral particles.

Please stop spreading misinformation.

A. We can agree in this. That's why I said if you're don't want to get it, get vaccinated. I didn't like the risks unvolved of not being vaccinated and got the shots.
But I am not going demand that everyone else do it too. If you are concerned protect yourself. Don't demand I protect you by getting vaccinated. You don't need me to be vaccinated if you can be.

B. There are studies that counter this. That being vaccinated does not prevent transmission or even lessen it.

The Big Question: If COVID vax doesn't stop the spread, why do we need vax mandates?

The new study showed that protection against transmission seemed to wane over time, however. After three months, people who had breakthrough infections after being vaccinated with AstraZeneca were just as likely to spread the delta variant as the unvaccinated. While protection against transmission decreased in people who had received the Pfizer vaccine, there was still a benefit when compared with people who were unvaccinated.

So, while vaccines help you a lot with prevention of contracting the disease and with the symptoms if you catch it. It certainly is not the protection people thought.

Being unvaccinated you are more of a danger to other unvaccinated people. So get vaccinated to protect yourself. It doesn't really protect others.
New Data on COVID-19 Transmission by Vaccinated Individuals | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

 

[rjs330]

But then it's known vaccinated now can still get Covid and spread it and yet sports events are allowed to have stadiums full again with only vaccinated (passports at the doors) many of them not wearing masks. So isn't this playing Russian roulette with people's lives too?

Yes it is if the vaccine mandatory supporters logic is taken to it's conclusion. Since you can spread the disease even when vaccinated it isnt really helping with that.

Vaccination is more about protecting yourself rather than others. Because these vaccines are not the same as other vaccines and don't have the same effects. The unvaccinated are at more risk to themselves because another unvaccinated person AND a vaccinated person can transmit the disease to them, which ultimately could kill them. What they should do is get vaccinated which will help them recover.

 

[lismore]

But then it's known vaccinated now can still get Covid and spread it and yet sports events are allowed to have stadiums full again with only vaccinated (passports at the doors) many of them not wearing masks. So isn't this playing Russian roulette with people's lives too?

You're right. Sadly this is a situation with no ideal choices, only perhaps the least worst choice. God Bless You

 

[rjs330]

Another benefit to the vaccine is because it helps protect you it helps your family. Because if you get covid your family has to quarantine. It keeps you and them out of work and out of school and out of life for a few weeks. And heaven forbid you get a severe case and die your family is without you.

So I believe being vaccinated is the best choice, but the decision is yours. I'm not going to mandate it or demand mandates.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Yes it is if the vaccine mandatory supporters logic is taken to it's conclusion. Since you can spread the
disease even when vaccinated it isnt really helping with that.

Wrong. If your logic is taken to its conclusion then it's like saying since you can still get injured or die in a car accident even when wearing a seat belt then clearly seat belts aren't really helping with that. Nonsensical and ridiculous.