The condemnation of Bibliomancy and or seeking an answer by randomly pointing within His Word.

[NeedyFollower]

I recently encountered Bibliomancy and or randomly opening and pointing to a point within the Bible so as to get an answer from God. This to me was something new to me that I did not really know about before. I did not know that this was an occult practice or a practice used in the occult. When I started to partake of this method for just one day via by learning about it, God warned me by using life circumstances and with Him silently bringing up His Word to me. I encountered smoke and fire two times within a span of two days. The second time the fire happened in another place and by another method, I was thinking of the first fire. I decided to seek what that meant in the Scriptures, and God just talked to my heart.... "danger." Then a verse came up in my mind. It was 2 Peter 1:20. Peter says in 2 Peter 1:20, "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." Earlier that day, I prayed and asked for an answer from God, and I landed in Revelation. Revelation is clearly prophetic. Yet, I was using it for private interpretation by wanting an answer on a life situation. Clearly this was wrong, and at the time I did not realize it was until I researched more about this kind of thing.

Anyways, I now know Bibliomancy or randomly opening the Bible to get an answer from GOD is wrong. We should not try to force an answer out of GOD. God will answer in His timing and way. For He is GOD, and not us. So Bibliomancy and all its forms should be a condemned practice. Nowhere do we see God's people partake of this method in desiring an answer from the Lord.

I believe it is often the case where we do not communicate as clearly as we wish . I often open the bible somewhat randomly ( verses starting at Genesis and reading through to revelation . ) I will read the minor prophets for weeks on end in addition to the gospels and psalms and proverbs and Paul's letters .
What I believe the brother is counseling against is asking God a question and then opening the bible randomly and potentially taking a verse out of context and assuming that it is a direct answer from the Lord . For there have been cases where the Lord even changed His mind regarding what he initially told a prophet . For example in Isaiah 38:1 , Isaiah told Hezekiah thus sayeth the Lord , put your house in order for thou shall die and not live ..but afterwards , the Lord had mercy on Hezekiah's tears and gave him more years . I think it may show wisdom to not rush to judgment utilizing the method which the brother described ...Whether it is an occult practice , I do not know but I do not believe we posses enough wisdom to always perceive the will of God . We are told to rightly divide the word of truth .
I do read that the wisdom that is from above is first peaceable , gentle and easily entreated . I also have experienced the earthly wisdom that is devilish and sensual ...full of envy , strife and debate . I call it being "in the flesh " . I hope to be free from it but I often fall short of the glory of God . I am thankful to have an advocate with the Father who maketh intercession .
May we seek to be wise in the days in which we live .

 

[Heavenhome]

Years ago I attended a church where the pastor held to just randomly opening the Bible and whatever verse you read was your message. I truly believe that is more occultic than anything else and what went on there further proved this.
That is not Gods way.
The Bible tells us of the Bereans who when they heard preaching they read the Scripture to make sure it was according to Gods word.
Exactly as we should do.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Reminds me of the person who used the closed eyes and the pin method of getting guidance from the Bible. He opened to a page at random and stuck his pin down. The verse he got was, "And Judas went out and hanged himself". He thought that wasn't quite right, so he did it again, and got, "And go and do thou likewise!"

 

[packermann]

Francis of Assisi used that technique, and so did others in Christian history, so I hardly think it is "an occult practice." And the term Bibliomancy is certainly inaccurate.

I don't think it's a good practice, but that's about all that needs to be said.

I would agree with you for anyone who who does not believe in sola scriptura, who sees that God reveals His truth in tradition as well as the Bible. But one who relies on the Bible alone this can be extremely dangerous. Augustine knew the value of tradition, and that served as an anchor for him. Otherwise, this technique can lead to dangerous ideas. One must always judge this technique against what the Church teaches. Otherwise, this can lead him into joining a cult. The devil can masquerade himself as an angel of light.

To tell you the truth, I am very skeptical of any method of where God supposedly leads an individual to the truth. If the Lord does that, why does He not lead every Christian to the right church? Or why does He not lead every Christian to vote the same way? I do not think He created us to be like zombies. I think He enjoys us to use our creativity and our reasoning to make our own choices. Of course, our choices must be within the parameters of His will. We should definitely pray that our decisions be within His will. But within His will we have the freedom to make our own decisions.

 

[charsan]

Why have you added "force" to this subject when it is not part of it? And as for there being no Biblical basis for the practice, that doesn't prove that this is an occult practice.

With some everything must be i the Bible or it is bad, it is almost or even using the Bible as an idol.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Another mistake some believers make is to use verses like magic spells, thinking that merely saying the verse has some kind of power in of itself.

Well, this is where we will depart ways, my friend. The Word of God (When spoken) has power to change people's lives. The Word of God works in those who believe it.

"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe." (1 Thessalonians 2:13).

"This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened me."
(Psalms 119:50).

"Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you."
(John 15:3).

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." (Romans 1:16).

We learn of the gospel by Scripture (See 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

In other words, the gospel is Scripture and it is the power of God.

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
(Romans 10:17).

Acts 20:32 says, "And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified."

"Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee."
(Psalms 119:11).

1 Peter 1:23 says, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."

Note: The context of 1 Peter 1:23 is the communicated "word of God"
For the context says,

"As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby" (1 Peter 2:2).

"But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." (1 Peter 1:25).

Jesus says you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free (John 8:32). Yes, Jesus is the truth (John 14:6), but Jesus also says that God's Word is the truth, too (John 17:17).

"If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you." (John 15:7).

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Years ago I attended a church where the pastor held to just randomly opening the Bible and whatever verse you read was your message. I truly believe that is more occultic than anything else and what went on there further proved this.

zyjsy od mpy mrvrddrtsu sppv;rov /
oops, key board shifted ! IS THAT A SIGN!?
What you mention is not occultic, NOR is it "more" occultic than a lot of other things done, let alone more than anything else.
Maybe what went on there proved something, but we don't know what went on there, so we don't know what it proved OTHER THAN THEY READ THE BIBLE _ MAYBE THE SAME WAY AS THE BEREANS! ?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Another mistake some believers make is to use verses like magic spells, thinking that merely saying the verse has some kind of power in of itself.

Also, Jesus quoted Scripture to the enemy to defeat him (See Matthew 4). Surely God's Word has power. The sword of the Spirit is the communicated Word of God according to Ephesians 6. For surely swords are not powerless devices. Our daily bread is the communicated Word of God put into practice. For man shall not live by bread alone but by every Word of God (Matthew 4:4). We can live by physical food like bread, but our true living is by living by what the communicated Word of God says. For Jesus agrees with the lawyer on the truth that to you love God and love your neighbor, is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28). These are the two greatest commandments that are a part of Scripture. The purpose and reason Christ died for us was so as to sanctify and cleanse us with the washing of the water of the Word (Scripture) so that He may present to Himself a church that is holy and blameless (See: Ephesians 5:25-27). If Scripture was powerless when spoken, then we would all be dead. The gospel would have no power to save, and those verses on Sanctification could not really help us to obey God and abide in His Spirit in order to live righteously. For all Scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Also, Jesus quoted Scripture to the enemy to defeat him (See Matthew 4). Surely God's Word has power. The sword of the Spirit is the communicated Word of God according to Ephesians 6. For surely swords are not powerless devices. Our daily bread is the communicated Word of God put into practice. For man shall not live by bread alone but by every Word of God (Matthew 4:4). We can live by physical food like bread, but our true living is by living by what the communicated Word of God says. Jesus agrees with the lawyer on the truth that to you love God and love your neighbor, is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28). These are the two greatest commandments that are a part of Scripture. The purpose and reason Christ died for us was so as to sanctify and cleanse us with the washing of the water of the Word (Scripture) so that He may present to Himself a church that is holy and blameless (See: Ephesians 5:25-27).

So Jesus QUOTED... hmmm..... INSTEAD of just putting a 'reference' for someone to look up if they could ? Jesus DID GOOD. Let's all do as JESUS DID - QUOTE - PUT THE WORDS, not just the reference which means nothing without the WORDS !

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So Jesus QUOTED... hmmm..... INSTEAD of just putting a 'reference' for someone to look up if they could ? Jesus DID GOOD. Let's all do as JESUS DID - QUOTE - PUT THE WORDS, not just the reference which means nothing without the WORDS !

There are times that Jesus paraphrased Scripture instead of quoting it directly word for word.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

There are times that Jesus paraphrased Scripture instead of quoting it directly word for word.

Go ahead then and paraphrase Scripture. Otherwise it is like this: 2, 18, 2532, 34

i.e. a reference without words is like a body without breath.....


p.s. yes, I am guilty also , I used to do just that.... but just that does not work and is not right..... so paraphrase or quote, putting the text in the post is best....

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe it is often the case where we do not communicate as clearly as we wish . I often open the bible somewhat randomly ( verses starting at Genesis and reading through to revelation . ) I will read the minor prophets for weeks on end in addition to the gospels and psalms and proverbs and Paul's letters .
What I believe the brother is counseling against is asking God a question and then opening the bible randomly and potentially taking a verse out of context and assuming that it is a direct answer from the Lord . For there have been cases where the Lord even changed His mind regarding what he initially told a prophet . For example in Isaiah 38:1 , Isaiah told Hezekiah thus sayeth the Lord , put your house in order for thou shall die and not live ..but afterwards , the Lord had mercy on Hezekiah's tears and gave him more years . I think it may show wisdom to not rush to judgment utilizing the method which the brother described ...Whether it is an occult practice , I do not know but I do not believe we posses enough wisdom to always perceive the will of God . We are told to rightly divide the word of truth .
I do read that the wisdom that is from above is first peaceable , gentle and easily entreated . I also have experienced the earthly wisdom that is devilish and sensual ...full of envy , strife and debate . I call it being "in the flesh " . I hope to be free from it but I often fall short of the glory of God . I am thankful to have an advocate with the Father who maketh intercession .
May we seek to be wise in the days in which we live .

Again, there is a clear difference between doing a study and asking God to help you to understand it, vs. asking God to answer a prayer via by pointing randomly to a point in the Bible (and thereby taking it out of context). Taking the Bible out of context to suit our own purposes and plans is wrong. God has an intended message within His Word and it is not for us to just to choose your own adventure by pointing randomly within it so as to guide our lives. Life is not always that easy. One of the fruits of the Spirit is patience. Our we being patient in wanting a quick answer? 2 Peter 1:20 says no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation. If I pray to God and then seek an answer by randomly opening to Revelation (A prophetic book), or some other prophetic Scripture verse or passage, then I am making prophecy of Scripture of my own private interpretation (Which is a violation of 2 Peter 1:20).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Go ahead then and paraphrase Scripture. Otherwise it is like this: 2, 18, 2532, 34

i.e. a reference without words is like a body without breath.....


p.s. yes, I am guilty also , I used to do just that.... but just that does not work and is not right..... so paraphrase or quote, putting the text in the post is best....

I said Jesus sometimes paraphrased Scripture, which is what I did and I provided a verse number for you to check it out. Is it wrong to quote verse numbers because Jesus and His followers did not have them? I do not believe so. God's Word is progressive to the time it exists in. They did not have printed whole complete Bibles back then and neither did they have Bibles on smartphones, either. The verse numbers, and printed forms of the Bible, and phones on our smartphones are just tools to access the communicated Word of God better. It is not exclusive spiritual practice like praying and then seeking an answer by randomly pointing to a point in the Bible. Not the same thing. You are comparing helpful tools in accessing the content of information with a spiritual practice. They are not the same thing.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Taking the Bible out of context to suit our own purposes and plans is wrong.

Again, SO WHAT!? You have not shown ANYONE DOING THIS, so far, (or did you?) ...

Btw, MANY posters MAY have been doing that same thing for years.... (I think), .... but perhaps they do not tell their motives or purposes?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Not the same thing. You are comparing helpful tools in accessing the content of information with a spiritual practice. They are not the same thing.

Are you comparing within this whole thread what some people including Bereans or Berean like people seeknig God's Kingdom might use or like "in accessing the content of information", same as you do in every or most posts ? ?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Again, SO WHAT!? You have not shown ANYONE DOING THIS, so far, (or did you?) ...

You are acting now like Bibliomancy does not exist or that no believer practices it. That makes no sense. You can simply do a Google search and see Christians defending Bibliomancy. I mean, just look at the poll. Somebody said... "no." You can even see folks defending it in this thread. You also appear to had no problem with it in the beginning of this thread, as well.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

See this is a good way to put the quotes as you did in an earlier post:
"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe." (1 Thessalonians 2:13).

"This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened me."
(Psalms 119:50).

"Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you."
(John 15:3).

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." (Romans 1:16).

We learn of the gospel by Scripture (See 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

In other words, the gospel is Scripture and it is the power of God.

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
(Romans 10:17).

Acts 20:32 says, "And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified."

"Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee."
(Psalms 119:11).

1 Peter 1:23 says, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."

Note: The context of 1 Peter 1:23 is the communicated "word of God"
For the context says,

"As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby" (1 Peter 2:2).

"But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." (1 Peter 1:25).

Jesus says you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free (John 8:32). Yes, Jesus is the truth (John 14:6), but Jesus also says that God's Word is the truth, too (John 17:17).

"If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you." (John 15:7).
==================================================

Then, in another post, this is what was done, NOT as good as not clearly showing the words , not even paraphrased... that go with the references.... >>>

Also, Jesus quoted Scripture to the enemy to defeat him (See Matthew 4). Surely God's Word has power. The sword of the Spirit is the communicated Word of God according to Ephesians 6. For surely swords are not powerless devices. Our daily bread is the communicated Word of God put into practice. For man shall not live by bread alone but by every Word of God (Matthew 4:4). We can live by physical food like bread, but our true living is by living by what the communicated Word of God says. Jesus agrees with the lawyer on the truth that to you love God and love your neighbor, is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28). These are the two greatest commandments that are a part of Scripture. The purpose and reason Christ died for us was so as to sanctify and cleanse us with the washing of the water of the Word (Scripture) so that He may present to Himself a church that is holy and blameless (See: Ephesians 5:25-27). If Scripture was powerless when spoken, then we would all be dead. The gospel would have no power to save, and those verses on Sanctification could not really help us to obey God and abide in His Spirit in order to live righteously. For all Scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Are you comparing within this whole thread what some people including Bereans or Berean like people seeknig God's Kingdom might use or like "in accessing the content of information", same as you do in every or most posts ? ?

So you believe the Bereans were praying and they were then randomly pointing in the Torah for an answer?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You are acting now like Bibliomancy does not exist or that no believer practices it. That makes no sense. You can simply do a Google search and see Christians defending Bibliomancy. I mean, just look at the poll. Somebody said... "no." You can even see folks defending it in this thread. You also appear to had no problem with it in the beginning of this thread, as well.

IF your topic is that, then show that. Show SOMEONE, show ANYONE , QUOTE THEM, who is doing that.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

See this is a good way to put the quotes as you did in an earlier post:
"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe." (1 Thessalonians 2:13).

"This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened me."
(Psalms 119:50).

"Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you."
(John 15:3).

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." (Romans 1:16).

We learn of the gospel by Scripture (See 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

In other words, the gospel is Scripture and it is the power of God.

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
(Romans 10:17).

Acts 20:32 says, "And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified."

"Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee."
(Psalms 119:11).

1 Peter 1:23 says, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."

Note: The context of 1 Peter 1:23 is the communicated "word of God"
For the context says,

"As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby" (1 Peter 2:2).

"But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." (1 Peter 1:25).

Jesus says you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free (John 8:32). Yes, Jesus is the truth (John 14:6), but Jesus also says that God's Word is the truth, too (John 17:17).

"If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you." (John 15:7).
==================================================

Then, in another post, this is what was done, NOT as good as not clearly showing the words , not even paraphrased... that go with the references.... >>>

Also, Jesus quoted Scripture to the enemy to defeat him (See Matthew 4). Surely God's Word has power. The sword of the Spirit is the communicated Word of God according to Ephesians 6. For surely swords are not powerless devices. Our daily bread is the communicated Word of God put into practice. For man shall not live by bread alone but by every Word of God (Matthew 4:4). We can live by physical food like bread, but our true living is by living by what the communicated Word of God says. Jesus agrees with the lawyer on the truth that to you love God and love your neighbor, is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28). These are the two greatest commandments that are a part of Scripture. The purpose and reason Christ died for us was so as to sanctify and cleanse us with the washing of the water of the Word (Scripture) so that He may present to Himself a church that is holy and blameless (See: Ephesians 5:25-27). If Scripture was powerless when spoken, then we would all be dead. The gospel would have no power to save, and those verses on Sanctification could not really help us to obey God and abide in His Spirit in order to live righteously. For all Scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness.

I really do not understand what you are trying to say. You are not speaking clearly.