The condemnation of Bibliomancy and or seeking an answer by randomly pointing within His Word.

[Bible Highlighter]

Whether the term, or even the doctrine, exists was not ever in question.
There seemed there, as in this thread/ op/ to be no purpose, to be as it were empty or in vain, since no one was quoted or shown to be doing what the OP claimed.

It is not vain because there are people who believe in Hyper Dispensationalism. Why do you think they came up with the term to begin with?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No. I don't have to believe that.
Can you PROVE THEY DID NOT ?
People have testified TODAY that they read the Scripture that way sometimes. No problem for them who are seeking God.
You have NOT YET shown that ANYONE you know or have seen has been trying to twist God's Arm... not even one quote to that effect, none at all.

If God does not operate by means of Bibliomancy, and I believe He does not according to 2 Peter 1:20, then one is strong arming God for answers by such a method.

You need names of people who believe in Bibliomancy by using the Bible?

Here is a book by Valerie Love KAISI.
https://www.amazon.com/Money-Scriptures-Bibliomancy-Enlightened-Consciousness/dp/1723185949/

 

[AlexDTX]

The Word of God works in those who believe it.

As you said, for those who believe it. Simply quoting scriptures out of context and without understanding what is meant, has no power. The power comes when "rightly dividing the word of truth", not simply throwing words out.

I stand by what I said. Just as randomly picking a page and sticking your finger on a verse is wrong, so is throwing out scriptures like magic incantations.

But for those skillful in the use of the Word, it is more powerful than a two edged sword when believed as well as spoken.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If God does not operate by means of Bibliomancy, and I believe He does not according to 2 Peter 1:20, then one is strong arming God for answers by such a method.

So don't use Bibliomancy. Just read the Bible seeking God's Kingdom, as much and as often as possible daily, any way desired truthfully and hopefully and like a little child!.

Here is a book by Valerie Love KAISI.

Does she practice necromancy? It looks from the title like new age, so I wouldn't read it on any basis so far given.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Simply quoting scriptures out of context and without understanding what is meant, has no power.

What does the Bible say about the power in the tongue ? For life or death? Even if just talking, not even related to Bible verses?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

They wanted me to do it. This means they were endorsing me in doing so meant that they most likely did the same thing.

Who wanted you to do what? Someone wanted you to practice Bibliomancy!? They do the same thing!? I thought you were against Bibliomancy! (I still think so, fwiw).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As you said, for those who believe it. Simply quoting scriptures out of context and without understanding what is meant, has no power. The power comes when "rightly dividing the word of truth", not simply throwing words out.

I stand by what I said. Just as randomly picking a page and sticking your finger on a verse is wrong, so is throwing out scriptures like magic incantations.

But for those skillful in the use of the Word, it is more powerful than a two edged sword when believed as well as spoken.

Granted, a magical spell like incantation is intended to cause some kind of change in the scenario or situation. While Scripture should not exactly be compared to being akin to the dark arts, the Bible does have the power to change a person's life if they believe or have faith. To say so otherwise means that God's Word has no power to change anyone. It would be dead and useless to change anyone if spoken. Hebrews talks about how the Word of God is living active and sharper than any two edged sword (See Hebrews 4:12). Yes. We need faith. That is always the ingredient that is needed to change a person's life. God does not force the power of His Word upon people beyond their own free will so as to believe it. I don't think the majority of Protestants believe that the Word of God changes the will of a person and it forces them to believe in God. They would all agree that a person needs to exercise their own faith out of their own free will. But what you are failing to realize is that God's Word can shine out the darkness. Again, Jesus was able to defeat the devil by quoting Scripture. The devil did not need to believe in it in order to be defeated by the consistent quoting of Scripture done by faith. But again, a Pastor quotes Scripture with the hope that it will change a person's life if they believe. To suggest that Scripture has no power to change a person's life (like with saying it cannot do anything when spoken by the comparison you made with the dark arts) is simply not true. God changes people's lives by His Word every day.

Yes, I would agree with you that praying to God and then pointing to a Scripture verse at random in the Bible is wrong because 2 Peter 1:20 says no Scripture is of any private interpretation, and it is forcing an answer out of God, but it is not wrong to quote Scripture and expect a change in people who believe. We can also quote Scripture to defeat the enemy like Jesus did. So if you are tempted, you can quote Scripture as a form of protection against temptation. So yes. There is power in the Word of God. Yes, God's Word has power to change people. Not against their free will, but by them having faith. God can be very persuasive in preparing and opening their heart in order to believe, but it in the end, it is up to the individual to decide if they want to truly believe in His Word or not. But without the speaking of His Word, nobody would be changed.

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" (Romans 10:14).

 

[AlexDTX]

What does the Bible say about the power in the tongue ? For life or death? Even if just talking, not even related to Bible verses?

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

The power of words is in their understanding, not merely the sounds emitted.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So you think a small error cannot infect others? Can a little bit of rat poison in a person's glass of water not hurt them? The problem I see with your line of thinking is that you think that a small error or problem is not worth mentioning if only a few small few appear to believe in it. You seem to think that the belief needs to have a large list of names attached to it in order for it to be a valid false belief. This is simply not the case.

The public, posted, threads and topics are infecting a lot of readers, the way you put this.
So far, no posts, no statements, no quotes, none of the readers nor posters have said anything about supporting , advocating, practicing, or promoting or believing in Bibliomancy.
i.e. it does not appear to affect anyone posting, reading, visiting, or passing by, that we know of.
In Africa, there is a deadly poison made from some of the leaves of particular plants or trees.
It , likewise, affects no one here, reading, posting, member or visitor.
Thus, an analysis of the poison or the antidote is not , um... helpful it seems.
Instead, God's Purpose may very well be 'exercise' unto Godliness for those practicing Godliness.
The sport of fencing comes to mind: when they are sparring the tips of the swords have little balls on them, instead of sharp points. The goal is not to make someone bleed (usually),
but to exercise the muscles , to train the reflexes in many ways, to improve at the skill of fencing.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yes, I would agree with you that praying to God and then pointing to a Scripture verse at random in the Bible is wrong because 2 Peter 1:20 says no Scripture is of any private interpretation, and it is forcing an answer out of God

Pointing , picking, choosing, at random or otherwise, any Bible section to read
is not interpreting the Bible. Thus this argument falls down at first glance.
There are plenty of private interpretations openly taught, repeated, posted, listened to, broadcast every minute.
But so far, none of them except that one author you listed seems to be trying to force an answer out of God.
That motive just is not being revealed in your thread/op/posts in anyone except that one author, if that is what they do.

 

[AlexDTX]

Granted, a magical spell like incantation is intended to cause some kind of change in the scenario or situation. While Scripture should not exactly be compared to being akin to the dark arts, the Bible does have the power to change a person's life if they believe or have faith. To say so otherwise means that God's Word has no power to change anyone. It would be dead and useless to change anyone if spoken. Hebrews talks about how the Word of God is living active and sharper than any two edged sword (See Hebrews 4:12). Yes. We need faith. That is always the ingredient that is needed to change a person's life. God does not force the power of His Word upon people beyond their own free will so as to believe it. I don't think the majority of Protestants believe that the Word of God changes the will of a person and it forces them to believe in God. They would all agree that a person needs to exercise their own faith out of their own free will. But what you are failing to realize is that God's Word can shine out the darkness. Again, Jesus was able to defeat the devil by quoting Scripture. The devil did not need to believe in it in order to be defeated by the consistent quoting of Scripture done by faith. But again, a Pastor quotes Scripture with the hope that it will change a person's life if they believe. To suggest that Scripture has no power to change a person's life (like with saying it cannot do anything when spoken by the comparison you made with the dark arts) is simply not true. God changes people's lives by His Word every day.

Yes, I would agree with you that praying to God and then pointing to a Scripture verse at random in the Bible is wrong because 2 Peter 1:20 says no Scripture is of any private interpretation, and it is forcing an answer out of God, but it is not wrong to quote Scripture and expect a change in people who believe. We can also quote Scripture to defeat the enemy like Jesus did. So if you are tempted, you can quote Scripture as a form of protection against temptation. So yes. There is power in the Word of God. Yes, God's Word has power to change people. Not against their free will, but by them having faith. God can be very persuasive in preparing and opening their heart in order to believe, but it in the end, it is up to the individual to decide if they want to truly believe in His Word or not. But without the speaking of His Word, nobody would be changed.

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" (Romans 10:14).

We understand each other. The Bible only has power as used by God. God is the power that changes, not the printed page. When the words of Holy Writ are used according to the will of God, God is the power that then makes changes in people's lives.

I am by no means belittling the importance of the Bible. I only pointed out how it is misused by people who think that simply quoting a verse has power in of itself. The power is God using that verse, not the verse. Hebrews says what I am saying best.

Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Correctly using scriptures is a skill.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

The power of words is in their understanding, not merely the sounds emitted.

It doesn't matter if they understand it or not.
As God's Word says, when people speak , there is power of life and death in their tongue.
Most all the world is death speaking. Death dealing. On purpose or unwittingly, every day. "Pernicious" (all society), from Galatians, etc. including written in the Apocalypse.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Who wanted you to do what? Someone wanted you to practice Bibliomancy!? They do the same thing!? I thought you were against Bibliomancy! (I still think so, fwiw).

Okay. You need to go back and read the OP. But to briefly recap my story, I have recently a few days ago had been wrongfully convinced by other Christians that I need to have an immediate answer from God when I prayed. Seeing I do not believe God directly uses His audible voice anymore with man today (Note: I believe this to be primarily true by a chance of 99% and I do not discount the possibility that He could speak to some on the Earth by a 1% chance), this led me to the conclusion that He uses His Word to answer my prayers. So I had partaken of the practice of opening the Bible at random to get an answer for one day. I landed in Revelation at one point in this process. I had spoken with a Christian later that day about my practice and they were happy to hear about what I was doing. But God was warning me. He brought two real fires before me in the span of two days to warn me that something was not right. God also then brought the verse to my attention that says, "No prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation." Revelation is clearly prophecy. I prayed, and got an answer from Revelation which is prophecy. Yet, 2 Peter 1:20 says no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation. The problem was that I was seeking a private interpretation or private answer to my prayer via by prophecy in Scripture (Which is wrong), of which I did not know was wrong at the time (While I was partaking of this kind of practice). So I fell briefly for a deception. I am now warning others not to partake of this wrong practice. I don't want others to fall for the same deception that I did. Do you understand now?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

We understand each other. The Bible only has power as used by God. God is the power that changes, not the printed page. When the words of Holy Writ are used according to the will of God, God is the power that then makes changes in people's lives.

I am by no means belittling the importance of the Bible. I only pointed out how it is misused by people who think that simply quoting a verse has power in of itself. The power is God using that verse, not the verse. Hebrews says what I am saying best.

Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Correctly using scriptures is a skill.

I believe both God and the Word (Scripture) work in harmony together, and they cannot be separated from each other. For the word of God are the very thoughts of God. God's words can have a change or effect on people. For Hebrews 4:12 says, "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." The printed words on the page within the Bible are never alone without God. GOD always abides by His Word in attempt to change a person's heart by their believing those words by faith and by God moving in harmony to change their heart after they believe in His Word. Granted, there are men and women who have refused to receive to hear God's Word even when they read it, but that is because they do not believe in the whole thing or it is because they have rejected certain portions of His Word. Of course they need "faith." But the Bible is not a lifeless book. It has power to change people's lives because GOD abides with His Word, and people believe in those words by faith. David said that he hid God's Word in his heart so that he may not sin against God (See: Psalms 119:11). If God's Word or the Bible had no power in itself, then what David was doing could not be true. The words themselves would be lifeless and dead and they could not be hid in his heart so as to not sin against God.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="Bible Highlighter, post: 74520577, member: 356113"]Okay. You need to go back and read the OP. But to briefly recap my story, I have recently a few days ago had been wrongfully convinced by other Christians that I need to have an immediate answer from God when I prayed. Seeing I do not believe God directly uses His audible voice anymore with man today (Note: I believe this to be primarily true by a chance of 99% and I do not discount the possibility that He could speak to some on the Earth by a 1% chance), this led me to the conclusion that He uses His Word to answer my prayers. So I had partaken of the practice of opening the Bible at random to get an answer for one day. I landed in Revelation at one point in this process. I had spoken with a Christian later that day about my practice and they were happy to hear about what I was doing. But God was warning me. He brought two real fires before me in the span of two days to warn me that something was not right. God also then brought the verse to my attention that says, "No prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation." Revelation is clearly prophecy. I prayed, and got an answer from Revelation which is prophecy. Yet, 2 Peter 1:20 says no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation. The problem was that I was seeking a private interpretation or private answer to my prayer via by prophecy in Scripture (Which is wrong), of which I did not know was wrong at the time (While I was partaking of this kind of practice). So I fell briefly for a deception. I am now warning others not to partake of this wrong practice.[/QUOTE
===========================================
NOW THIS MAKES SENSE. (why the op/thread/topic)
It does not make it right, yet, but it makes sense.

Bibliomancy has been 'glorified', though obviously not the intent.

I would gently suggest delete the thread and start over with this (your last post).

(If you want to continue to thresh it out - to gain understanding) .... maybe not even mentioning ol' "mancy" ....

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As you said, for those who believe it. Simply quoting scriptures out of context and without understanding what is meant, has no power. The power comes when "rightly dividing the word of truth", not simply throwing words out.

I stand by what I said. Just as randomly picking a page and sticking your finger on a verse is wrong, so is throwing out scriptures like magic incantations.

But for those skillful in the use of the Word, it is more powerful than a two edged sword when believed as well as spoken.

I am curious. Do you disagree with what is said in this Christian movie trailer?

 

[AlexDTX]

It doesn't matter if they understand it or not.
As God's Word says, when people speak , there is power of life and death in their tongue.
Most all the world is death speaking. Death dealing. On purpose or unwittingly, every day. "Pernicious" (all society), from Galatians, etc. including written in the Apocalypse.

Then you misunderstood my point. In Cor 13 Paul refers to speaking in tongues of which no one understands. It becomes noise and is meaningless.

Life and death in the tongue having power is in the understanding and meaning, not merely the sounds of words.

Likewise in using Scriptures, the power is in the understanding, and as I said to another, in God's use of the words. If someone uses verses superstitiously like magic incantations it has no power.

I watched a video made by Baptists on the book of Acts. Since Baptists in general have no understanding in the matter of speaking in tongues, they did a poor job in presenting Pentecost.

They interpreted the praying in one accord of the disciples before the tongues of fire descended upon them as a recitation of the Lord's prayer.

It was an absurd scene to hear them pray over and over and over Our father in heaven.... It was a scene in direct violation of the Lord for us to not pray like the heathen with vain repetition, thinking they will be heard. The disciples did not repeat that prayer mindlessly as portrayed in that scene.

Likewise, simply quoting scriptures without faith is like superstitious recitation of "magic words".

Heb_4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

QUOTE="Bible Highlighter, post: 74520577, member: 356113"]
NOW THIS MAKES SENSE. (why the op/thread/topic)
It does not make it right, yet, but it makes sense.

Bibliomancy has been 'glorified', though obviously not the intent.

Exposing the error of Bibliomancy does not mean Bibliomancy has been glorified. Are you unaware that the Bible exposes false beliefs or other errors? Is the Bible itself glorifying wrong beliefs because it warns us against them? No. The Bible even mentions many kinds of sins that GOD does not approve of. Does that mean sin is glorified because it is mentioned in God's Word? No. Of course not. God's Word condemns sin and false beliefs as a means to warn us. That is the intent of this thread.

I would gently suggest delete the thread and start over with this (your last post).

Many understood where I was coming from. Just because you did not understand personally what I was saying until now does not change things.

(If you want to continue to thresh it out - to gain understanding) .... maybe not even mentioning ol' "mancy" ....

But that is what it is. Bibliomancy. To point in the Bible at random so as to seek an answer from God is Bibliomancy. A lady who claims to be Christian even wrote a book about it. So it is a real problem that folks should be aware of.

 

[AlexDTX]

I believe both God and the Word (Scripture) work in harmony together, and they cannot be separated from each other. For the word of God are the very thoughts of God. God's words can have a change or effect on people.

Correct, with one more needed element. The hearer has to believe, too. The word works by the power of agreement.

Getting back to the OP, it is an old joke and illustration of the folly of "Bibliomancy" in this story.

Prayer: Oh God tell me what to do.
Opens Bible randomly and puts finger on this verse:

Mat_27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

He flips the pages again to the next random verse:

Luk_10:37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Then you misunderstood my point. In Cor 13 Paul refers to speaking in tongues of which no one understands. It becomes noise and is meaningless.

Life and death in the tongue having power is in the understanding and meaning, not merely the sounds of words.

Likewise in using Scriptures, the power is in the understanding, and as I said to another, in God's use of the words. If someone uses verses superstitiously like magic incantations it has no power.

I watched a video made by Baptists on the book of Acts. Since Baptists in general have no understanding in the matter of speaking in tongues, they did a poor job in presenting Pentecost.

They interpreted the praying in one accord of the disciples before the tongues of fire descended upon them as a recitation of the Lord's prayer.

It was an absurd scene to hear them pray over and over and over Our father in heaven.... It was a scene in direct violation of the Lord for us to not pray like the heathen with vain repetition, thinking they will be heard. The disciples did not repeat that prayer mindlessly as portrayed in that scene.

Likewise, simply quoting scriptures without faith is like superstitious recitation of "magic words".

Heb_4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Yes, I agree that reciting the Lord's prayer in vain repetition is wrong. Those who partake of this practice do not have faith in what God's Word says in its entirety (Which is why they are misunderstanding and misapplying God's Word in this way). The Lord's prayer is an outline in how to pray. We are to break the prayer down into bite sized pieces so as to pray with meaning in our own words on each of the points within the Lord's prayer. I remember, when I was a child, a family member and I were in a house late at night, and we heard some horrible disturbing noises that we believed to be dark spirits. We wrongfully quoted the Lord's prayer as if it was a magical spell when that is not the intent of such Scripture. Granted, I do believe we can quote Scripture like Jesus did the correct verses in Scripture to ward off evil spirits in times of temptation or trouble, but a believer has to rightly divide by their having the Spirit of God. The words have power when correctly applied by faith. Those who truly do not believe God's Word will misapply it at some point.