The Book of Enoch

[HARK!]

The majority of translations I’ve found say “the tree of wisdom”.

sounds very esoteric and Masonic to me. They believe the serpent was trying to help us and enlighten us, and that God was trying to withhold information from us.

I seriously doubt that there were Freemasons at Qumran. The rightful Priesthood, yes, John the Baptist, could be, Freemasons, far fetched.

 

[HARK!]

The “book of Enoch” is demonic. I burned my copy of it.

I don't believe that the early "Church Fathers" were reading, and supporting, demonic books. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[HARK!]

As it written in the Torah, by the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses shall a matter be established.

Good point.

Where is Jude's first witness?

(CLV) Ju 1:6
Besides, messengers who keep not their own sovereignty, but leave their own habitation, He has kept in imperceptible bonds under gloom for the judging of the great day.


(CLV) Ju 1:7
As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner to these committing ultra-prostitution, and coming away after other flesh, are lying before us, a specimen, experiencing the justice of fire eonian.

After you answer that one; Ill presents some more examples of verses that can't be traced to a first witness, other than Enoch.

 

[Dkh587]

Good point.

Where is Jude's first witness?

(CLV) Ju 1:6
Besides, messengers who keep not their own sovereignty, but leave their own habitation, He has kept in imperceptible bonds under gloom for the judging of the great day.


(CLV) Ju 1:7
As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner to these committing ultra-prostitution, and coming away after other flesh, are lying before us, a specimen, experiencing the justice of fire eonian.

After you answer that one; Ill presents some more examples of verses that can't be traced to a first witness, other than Enoch.

Genesis 6:1-4 is what Judah is talking about.

 

[Dkh587]

I don't believe that the early "Church Fathers" were reading, and supporting, demonic books. We'll have to agree to disagree.

They were reading and supporting demonic doctrines to not keep the Sabbath holy. They didn’t exactly have the best discernment.

 

[Dkh587]

I seriously doubt that there were Freemasons at Qumran. The rightful Priesthood, yes, John the Baptist, could be, Freemasons, far fetched.

It’s not that I think that there were Freemasons at Qumran, but rather that the tree of knowledge of good and evil being called the “tree of wisdom” is in line with what Freemasons believe.

 

[timothyu]

but rather that the tree of knowledge of good and evil being called the “tree of wisdom”

God said that in eating of it we had become gods like them. If it was wisdom we would not have needed to be cast out into the world to suffer the consequences of our self serving actions. We would have had the wisdom of how to use that knowledge properly. Evidently we did not nor have we since. Otherwise Jesus wouldn't needed to have come and taught the Gospel of the coming Kingdom/governance of God over the governance of man, and told us to repent of the latter..

 

[Dkh587]

One example might be Jesus in Matthew 22:29-30. The only 'scripture' that can be related regarding the marital status of angels is in Enoch 1.

IMO, while Jesus is saying something that is somewhat similar to what the “book of Enoch” says, that’s not concrete evidence that he “quoted from the book of Enoch” or considered it Scripture, as so many are saying. It’s not conclusive.

Zac Bauer in his recent videos, first say “Jesus quotes Enoch over 100 times”, and then flips and says “quotes or alludes to”.

when you take a closer look, the “quotes” are not quotes at all.

 

[HARK!]

IMO, while Jesus is saying something that is somewhat similar to what the “book of Enoch” says, that’s not concrete evidence that he “quoted from the book of Enoch” or considered it Scripture, as so many are saying. It’s not conclusive.

Zac Bauer in his recent videos, first say “Jesus quotes Enoch over 100 times”, and then flips and says “quotes or alludes to”.

when you take a closer look, the “quotes” are not quotes at all.

(CLV) Mt 22:29
Now, answering, Jesus said to them, "You are deceived, not being acquainted with the scriptures, nor yet with the power of God.

(CLV) Mt 22:30
For in the resurrection neither are they marrying nor taking in marriage, but are as messengers of God in heaven.

What scriptures, my friend?

 

[Dkh587]

(CLV) Mt 22:29
Now, answering, Jesus said to them, "You are deceived, not being acquainted with the scriptures, nor yet with the power of God.

(CLV) Mt 22:30
For in the resurrection neither are they marrying nor taking in marriage, but are as messengers of God in heaven.

What scriptures, my friend?

As far as I know, he’s not quoting anything in the Tanach word for word.

It’s plausible that he is referencing something that’s not explicitly said in the Tanach, like in John 7:38

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

this is not in the Tanach.

It’s worth mentioning, that the gospel gospel of Luke records a longer and different response, and the reference being to being “like angels” is in regards to not dying, not marriage.

Luke 20:34-36

And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection

 

[HARK!]

As far as I know, he’s not quoting anything in the Tanach word for word.

It’s plausible that he is referencing something that’s not explicitly said in the Tanach, like in John 7:38



this is not in the Tanach.

This verse too has been attributed as a reference to Enoch.

Enoch 48:1 In that place I beheld a fountain of righteousness, which never failed, encircled by many springs of wisdom. Of these all the thirsty drank, and were filled with wisdom, having their habitation with the righteous, the elect, and the holy.

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

The Book of Enoch NT Verses

 

[Dkh587]

This verse too has been attributed as a reference to Enoch.

Enoch 48:1 In that place I beheld a fountain of righteousness, which never failed, encircled by many springs of wisdom. Of these all the thirsty drank, and were filled with wisdom, having their habitation with the righteous, the elect, and the holy.

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

The Book of Enoch NT Verses

They’re not saying the same thing. This is why it’s hard for me to buy into the whole “Jesus/Apostles quoted the book of Enoch” buzz phrase going around right now.

when you take a closer look, they’re not quoting it at all, and they’re not really alluding to it either.

 

[timothyu]

when you take a closer look, they’re not quoting it at all, and they’re not really alluding to it either.

What would they be alluding to when mentioning Enoch?

 

[Dkh587]

What would they be alluding to when mentioning Enoch?

What do you mean?

 

[timothyu]

What do you mean?

Why would they mention him if he didn't stand for something or teach something?

 

[HARK!]

What do you mean?

Example:

(CLV) Ju 1:14
Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesies to these also, saying, "Lo! the Lord came among ten thousand of His saints,

(CLV) Ju 1:15
to do judging against all, and to expose all the irreverent concerning all their irreverent acts in which they are irreverent, and concerning all the hard words which irreverent sinners speak against Him."

Direct quote of Enoch 1:9.

And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones
To execute judgement upon all, And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

 

[Dkh587]

Why would they mention him if he didn't stand for something or teach something?

Only 1 person mentioned Enoch. He didn’t mention a book.

 

[timothyu]

Only 1 person mentioned Enoch. He didn’t mention a book.

But why mention him at all if he wasn't connected to the teachings. A shout out to an old friend?

 

[HARK!]

Only 1 person mentioned Enoch. He didn’t mention a book.

Jude didn't just mention Enoch. Jude quoted Enoch. Where did Jude get the quote?

 

[Dkh587]

But why mention him at all if he wasn't connected to the teachings. A shout out to an old friend?

Him quoting Enoch was in relation to what he was writing about.