The Book of Enoch

[steve78]

The Jews never accepted the book of Enoch into the canon of Tanakh nor into the Septuagint. That, in itself, is telling.

Can i ask why, just curious?

 

[GedaliahMaegil]

Check it out OP :

The Book of Enoch?.

Ultimately, I don't see a need for the book of Enoch. I've not read much of it. What I have read does nothing for me.

...

 

[GedaliahMaegil]

Interesting that I just spent the entire day reading it. Sounds like Revelation and even the whole Jesus saga came from this book, the writings so similar.

Even at 200 yrs prior to Jesus and 300 Revelation, that still makes it rather remarkable.

...

 

[steve78]

Interesting that I just spent the entire day reading it. Sounds like Revelation and even the whole Jesus saga came from this book, the writings so similar.

Its very interesting.

 

[GedaliahMaegil]

Can i ask why, just curious?

...

 

[HARK!]

Part 2:

Enoch is the most quoted book in your Bible, that is not in your Bible.

If you look up the most quoted book in your Bible, you will find Psalms, which is quoted, or eluded to, 68 times.

After that, Isaiah at 55 times, then Deuteronomy, and so on.

The Book of Enoch, however, is quoted, or eluded to, over 100 times in the B'rit Chadashah alone.

The Loss and Discovery of Enoch

The 1st and 2nd century church fathers held the Book of Enich in high regard.

Justin Martyr of Rome 100-165 AD
Origen of Alexandria 185-253 AD
Athenagoras of Athens (incuded Enoch among the Prophet Books)
Clement of Alexandria 150-215 AD
Irenaeus of Smyrna 130-202 AD
Tertullian of Carthage 155-240 AD - Called the book "SCRIPTURE" Wrote the Jews had rejected Enoch because it pointed to Yahshua being Messiah.

The case can also be made that, before Yahshua, many Jewish authorities held Enoch in high regard. The reason it was discounted for the same reason that many people discount Isaiah 53. They don't like all of the Yahshua Messiah talk.

THE LOSS OF ENOCH

"Some Jews accepted and some rejected the idea of a divine Messiah. The Similitudes [of the Book of Enoch] are evidence for the tradition of the interpretation of the Son of Man as such a divine person, the tradition that fed into the Jesus movement as well" ~ Daniel Boyarin The Jewish Gospels The Story of the Jewish Christ; 2012 p. 1, 5-6

"But since Enoch in the same scripture has preached likewise concerning the Lord, nothing at all must be rejected by us; as we read that "every Scripture suitable for edification as divinely inspired." [110] By the Jews it may now seem to have been rejected for that (very) reason, ~ Tertullian
(The Apparel of Women"; Fathers if the Church 3,1,1-3)

These two sources say that the Jews rejected Enoch because they didn't like the Messiah talk.

So why did the Christians reject it. They didn't like the Angel talk.

The Christian council of Laodicea in 336 AD didn't like all of the mentions of angels mating with women. The council declared the book to be discredited and thus fell out of favor.

1st and 2nd century: Church Fathers, "Enoch OK." 3rd and 4th centuries: They start throwing books out. They almost took out Jude and Revelation, and there were a couple of other books that barely made the cut.

The Book of Enoch passed away; as being in possession of it was deemed heresy, punishable by death.

Over 1000 years later, in 1773, James Bruce discovers 3 copies on Ethiopia, at a Christian monastery.

He brings them back. He drops one off in Paris, one in Oxford England; and he takes the third home to Scotland.

They sit there for about 100 years; because the people who got the books looked through them and said; "this is mostly quoting the New Testament. This is obviously post NT. This isn't worth our time." They set it aside. It wasn't a big deal, until the Qumran scrolls were discovered, which predate the NT.

So the scholars were wrong.

They found everything to support the copies that James Bruce discovered, except the Similitudes; so the scholars said the the Similitudes were added later. The problem, is that in cave 11, at Qumran a complete copy of the Book of Enoch was found. which does include the Parables of Enoch, all of the Messiah Yahshua talk.

Wrong again.

"No trace of the Parables of Enoch has been discovered at Qumran*, and it is widely considered today to be a composition of the latter first century C.E.. If a pre-Christain copy of the Parables were discovered, it would create a sensation"

~Michael Wise
Dead Sea Scrolls Scholar

*That he knew about at that time (Cave 11)

Scriptures

Where is Enoch quoted or eluded to?

The book of John, all of the Gospels, Revelation, Jude, Peter, Paul, Isaiah, Daniel, Leviticus and more, will mention scripture that is only found in the Book of Enoch.

(CLV) Ju 1:14
Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesies to these also, saying, "Lo! the Lord came among ten thousand of His saints,

(CLV) Ju 1:15
to do judging against all, and to expose all the irreverent concerning all their irreverent acts in which they are irreverent, and concerning all the hard words which irreverent sinners speak against Him."

Direct quote of Enoch 1:9.

And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones
To execute judgement upon all, And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

Critics will concede that Jude quoted Enoch; but then they will dismiss Enoch as a popular work of art, in the day of Jude.

They quote that verse; but they don't quote verses 6 and 7.

(CLV) Ju 1:6
Besides, messengers who keep not their own sovereignty, but leave their own habitation, He has kept in imperceptible bonds under gloom for the judging of the great day.

What made them leave their own habitation?

(CLV) Ju 1:7
As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner to these committing ultra-prostitution, and coming away after other flesh, are lying before us, a specimen, experiencing the justice of fire eonian.

Strange flesh? Fornication? This lines up with what Genesis 6 tells us. They came for the women. This is quoting from Enoch.

Let's go to the next verse.

(CLV) 2Pt 2:4
For if God spares not sinning messengers, but thrusting them into the gloomy caverns of Tartarus, gives them up to be kept for chastening judging;


Angels sinned? What was their sin? What is Peter referring to? Where in the Torah and the Prophets does it talk about the angels leaving their habitation and sinning? Where is that? You won't fond it except for in the Book of Enoch; and it matches up with what Genesis 6 tells us. These are not sons of Seth. These are angels who sinned, and left their first habitation to fornicate and go after strange flesh.

Let's move on to what Yahshua said.

(CLV) Mt 25:41
"Then shall He be declaring to those also at His left, `Go from Me, you cursed, into the fire eonian, made ready for the Adversary and his messengers.

Where in the Torah does it say anything about fire reserved for angels? Save some time; and start looking in Enoch first.

Let's move on to Paul:

(CLV) 1Co 6:3
Are you not aware that we shall be judging messengers, not to mention life's affairs?

How would I know that? Where is that found in the Torah and the Prophets?

Enoch 38:1

When the congregation of the righteous shall appear,
And sinners shall be judged for their sins,
And shall be driven from the face of the earth:

Paul says it. Enoch says it.

Enoch 15:2

man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. And go, say to the Watchers of heaven, who have sent thee to intercede for them: "You should intercede" for men, and not men

What's going on here?

The angels know that they messed up; so they ask Enoch to go to the Father and intercede for them; so that they might be forgiven. They know that they are in trouble; and they know that they will be judged. They want to come back. The Father tells Enoch that the angels are to intercede for men, not men for angels.

This is held up in Hebrews 1:14:

(CLV) Hb 1:14
Are they not all ministering spirits commissioned for service because of those who are about to be enjoying the allotment of salvation?

Hebrews 1:14 echos their purpose.

Here is another from Messiah:

(CLV) Mt 22:29
Now, answering, Jesus said to them, "You are deceived, not being acquainted with the scriptures, nor yet with the power of God.

(CLV) Mt 22:30
For in the resurrection neither are they marrying nor taking in marriage, but are as messengers of God in heaven.

Some will use this as a proof text that angels can't mate. We know that angels can eat. What else can they do? The angels were told not to. They were told not to fornicate with strange flesh. That doesn't mean that they can't.

Yahshua mentioned scripture.

Where in the Torah or the Prophets does it say anything about the angels and their mating abilities?

Let's save some time searching, and go straight to Enoch.

Enoch 15: 5-7

And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those also do who die 5 and perish. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget
6
children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. But you were formerly
7
spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling.

Yahshua calls Enoch scripture.

Let's go to Leviticus.

(CLV) Lv 16:8
Then Aaron will cast lots over the two hairy goats, one lot for Yahweh and one lot for the goat of departure.

What is the Hebrew word for scapegoat?

H5799`aza'zel

(CLV) Lv 16:21
Aaron will support his two hands on the head of the live hairy goat, confess over it all the depravities of the sons of Israel and all their transgressions in all their sins, and he will put them on the head of the hairy goat and send it away by the hand of a ready man to the wilderness.

Enoch 10:

8
Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted
9
through the works that were taught by Azâzêl: to him ascribe all sin.' And to Gabriel said the Lord: 'Proceed against the bastards and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy [the children of fornication and] the children of the Watchers from amongst men [and cause them to go forth]: send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in

Total coincidence.

What came first, Enoch or Leviticus? Later he will touch on the Oral Tradition.

For now Enoch 10: 4-6:

4
and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world.' And again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azâzêl hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening
5
in the desert, which is in Dûdâêl, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may 6,7 not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the


(CLV) Re 20:10
And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons.


Enoch is in your because the people who write your Bible, the people who are in your Bible, were very familiar with it.

 

[HARK!]

a. The story of angels having sex with women contradicts Jesus’ saying in Matthew 22:30: “For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven” (Mat 22:30 NKJV). This means angels are not sexual beings.

Covered in part 2:

(CLV) Mt 22:29
Now, answering, Jesus said to them, "You are deceived, not being acquainted with the scriptures, nor yet with the power of God.

(CLV) Mt 22:30
For in the resurrection neither are they marrying nor taking in marriage, but are as messengers of God in heaven.

Some will use this as a proof text that angels can't mate. We know that angels can eat. What else can they do? The angels were told not to. They were told not to fornicate with strange flesh. That doesn't mean that they can't.

Yahshua mentioned scripture.

Where in the Torah or the Prophets does it say anything about the angels and their mating abilities?

Let's save some time searching, and go straight to Enoch.

Enoch 15: 5-7

And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those also do who die 5 and perish. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget
6
children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. But you were formerly
7
spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling.

Yahshua calls Enoch scripture.

 

[HARK!]

The Jews never accepted the book of Enoch into the canon of Tanakh nor into the Septuagint. That, in itself, is telling.

The Canon wasn't developed until after the fall of the Temple. The Canon does not align with the Egyptian Septuagint.
What we can learn from the variances of scripture in the Qumran scrolls, is that different communities had different traditions.

After Onias III was assassinated, and shortly thereafter the rightful Priesthood was ousted form the the temple; the Hasmoneans would have rejected the Book of Enoch for obvious reasons.

The scrolls date to the time that the Priesthood was ousted. They speak of priestly duties; and they contain the Temple Scroll.

 

[GedaliahMaegil]

The Canon wasn't developed until after the fall of the Temple.

Incorrect. The Scriptures themselves confirm that the Jews had the "words of Elohim" (cf. Romans 3 et al.)

 

[HARK!]

Incorrect. The Scriptures themselves confirm that the Jews had the "words of Elohim" (cf. Romans 3 et al.)

In case you didn't realize it; as Paul walked the earth; the scrolls that were found at Qumran were in the hands of Yahudim; but the Pharisees didn't create their Canon until after Qumran was vacant.

 

[GedaliahMaegil]

In case you didn't realize it; as Paul walked the earth; the scrolls that were found at Qumran were in the hands of Yahudim; but the Pharisees didn't create their Canon until after Qumran was vacant.

"Y`hudim" (יְּהוּדִ֔ים). You can't just insert "Yah" anywhere you like the Hebrew roots adherents do.

The P`rushim didn't have to canonise anything. The Tanakh Scriptures were already written and available.

 

[HARK!]

"Y`hudim" (יְּהוּדִ֔ים). You can't just insert "Yah" anywhere you like the Hebrew roots adherents do.

That's Modern Hebrew. I prefer the Ancient pronunciation. That's one reason why I didn't say Jews.

The P`rushim didn't have to canonise anything. The Tanakh Scriptures were already written and available.

Enoch was available to Yahshua. He quoted it to Sadducees, who too weren't acquainted with scripture.

See post# 27.

 

[mmksparbud]

Zacharey Bauer presents a series on the Book of Enoch. This is part 1. I'll be providing a review of the entire series.

Matthew Maurey discovered ocean currents; but what prompted him to search was Psalms 8:8.

This fact is used by some to demonstrate inspiration of the Bible.

The Book of Enoch similarly presents an example of inspiration.

Enoch 3:1

Observe and see how (in the winter) all the trees seem as though they had withered and shed all their leaves, except fourteen trees, which do not lose their foliage but retain the old foliage from two to three years till the new comes.

Science today confirms this.

Evergreen families
Family name Example
Araucariaceae Kauri
Cupressaceae Sequoia
Pinaceae Pine
Podocarpaceae Real yellowwood
Taxaceae Yew
Cyatheaceae Australian tree fern
Aquifoliaceae Holly
Fagaceae Live oak
Oleaceae Shamel ash
Myrtaceae Eucalyptus
Arecaceae Coconut
Lauraceae Bay
Magnoliaceae Southern magnolia
Cycadaceae Queen sago

Evergreen - Wikipedia

Enoch is the most quoted, or eluded to, book in the Bible; but it's not in the Bible. Enoch is quoted, or eluded to in the B'rit Chadasha over 100 times.

Psalms is quoted 68 times in the Bible.

So what is the objection to this book. It is purported that it is because it speaks heavily of the Angels who sinned.

(CLV) Ju 1:6
Besides, messengers who keep not their own sovereignty, but leave their own habitation, He has kept in imperceptible bonds under gloom for the judging of the great day.

(CLV) 2Pt 2:4
For if God spares not sinning messengers, but thrusting them into the gloomy caverns of Tartarus, gives them up to be kept for chastening judging;

Who's offspring were giants.

(CLV) Am 2:9
Yet I exterminated the Amorite before you, Whose loftiness was like the loftiness of the cedars, And safeguarded was he as the oaks. I exterminated his fruit from above, And his roots from beneath.

This is the introduction to this series:

The book of Enoch is absolutely not canon and not inspired by God. This is where all this business of the Nephilim come from. It claims they are the sons of human females and fallen male angels. Which is a total piece of baloney! Jesus clearly states angels do not marry. It is also obvious throughout the bible that the angels mentioned in scripture all have male names. Please don't think me so stupid as to think that fallen angels somehow created their genitals in order to mate with human females. Angels are not our kind---at creation God said all created creatures will mate with their own kind. Angels are not our kind--We are created lower than the angels. Jesus became lower than the angels He Himself created! And that took an act of the Holy Spirit to accomplish! No way is the Holy Spirit involved with creating genitals for the fallen angels!! To give this book any kind of scriptual status is to stand on the side of Satan himself!!! This is foolishness no Christian should take any heed to!

These Nephilim are stated as being 450 ft tall!! Actually, the original said 4500 ft!! Someone decided that was an error and knocked them down to 450----The Statue of Jesus in Rio de Janeiro is 98 feet tall, the statue of liberty is 305 feet, elephants are 8 to 9 1/2 feet tall---a baby elephant weighs in at about 250 lbs and approx 3 feet tall. The smalles baby to adult ratio is the Giant Panda 300 lbs to baby at no more than 5 oz. They can be as much as 6 feet long. Now you do the math and figure out what size baby a 450 foot person would be at birth, I've put the question to several gynocologists---no way a human female could live through the pregnancy---much less the childbirth. Even a little person, carrying the child of a normal man, is considered a high risk pregancy and requires a C section.

To think that God has nothing but billiions and billions of angels, apparently all male---running around with genitalia appropriate to impregnante a human female but God gives them no mates!! That is totally ridiculous. They are His messengers, for such they are created. Nowhere is there any indication of angels mating with humans. People have taken Gen 6 and twisted its meaning. It was considered that it was men of status--high ranking men, possibly even Priests of God, who married women who were not believers in God.


Pgs. 35-47 Ch. 1-6

THE TARGUM OF ONKELOS ON THE BOOK BERESHITH

OR

GENESIS.

SECTION I.

BERESHITH BARA ELOHIM.

VI. And Noach was a son of five hundred years, and Noach begat Shem, Cham, and Japheth. And it was when the sons of men had begun to multiply upon the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of the mighty[32] saw the daughters of men that they were beautiful, and took to them wives of all whom they pleased.[33] And the Lord said, This evil generation shall not stand before me for ever, because they are flesh, and their works are evil. A term (or length) will I give them, an hundred and twenty years, if they may be converted. Giants were in the earth in those days; and also when, after that the sons of the mighty had gone in unto the daughters of men, there were born from them giants who from of old were men of name.


As for giants---yes, there were giasnts in those days---and also afterwards. Nowhere in scrip-ture doies it say Adam and Eve and theior chiodren wilol pour height! These were perfect people with operfect br5ains and bodies. Nothing state3s they6 could not have been 1`0-12 feet tall! They lived for hundreds of years, their age only plummeted after the fall, when they began to eat meat. Their longevity was slashed, and so was their height, except for pockets where like places in Africa, tribes of the very tall do exist---also tribes of the very small. Nobod6y claims that the very small are anything but genetics---it's only the very tall! It's all genetics. And one more thing---angeles are said to have anywhyere between 2 and 6 wings, yet no children born with wings?? Not one mentioned in scripture.,
The Book of Enoch is not canon for a reason. It is canon only to the Ethiopians.

 

[HARK!]

The book of Enoch is absolutely not canon and not inspired by God. This is where all this business of the Nephilim come from. It claims they are the sons of human females and fallen male angels. Which is a total piece of baloney! Jesus clearly states angels do not marry.

Who decides what's Canon? I could care less about a man made Canon. Which Canon? You speak as though there is only one. You might want to look into that. The numbers will probably surprise you.

Not inspired? Says who?

If Yahshua quotes it as scripture; I'll assume that it's inspired.

Yahshua quoted Enoch as scripture.


See post #27.

 

[HARK!]

These Nephilim are stated as being 450 ft tall!! Actually, the original said 4500 ft!! Someone decided that was an error and knocked them down to 450----The Statue of Jesus in Rio de Janeiro is 98 feet tall, the statue of liberty is 305 feet, elephants are 8 to 9 1/2 feet tall---a baby elephant weighs in at about 250 lbs and approx 3 feet tall. The smalles baby to adult ratio is the Giant Panda 300 lbs to baby at no more than 5 oz. They can be as much as 6 feet long. Now you do the math and figure out what size baby a 450 foot person would be at birth, I've put the question to several gynocologists---no way a human female could live through the pregnancy---much less the childbirth. Even a little person, carrying the child of a normal man, is considered a high risk pregancy and requires a C section.

Here is the verse in question:

Enoch 7:3

3
became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed.

Most scholars agree the the word is not "ells;" it's "Elioud."

Nickelsburg/Vanderkam translates verse 2 from a Greek text which says nothing about the height of the giants.

“And they conceived from them and bore to them great giants. And the giants begot Nephilim, and to the Nephilim were born Elioud- and they were growing in accordance with their greatness”.

 

[HARK!]

angeles are said to have anywhyere between 2 and 6 wings, yet no children born with wings??

Who is this guy?

The Pagans were worshiping these abominations.

 

[mmksparbud]

Who decides what's Canon? I could care less about a man made Canon. Which Canon? You speak as though there is only one. You might want to look into that. The numbers will probably surprise you.

Not inspired? Says who?

If Yahshua quotes it as scripture; I'll assume that it's inspired.

Yahshua quoted Enoch as scripture.


See post #27.

Who is this guy?

The Pagans were worshiping these abominations.

Here is the verse in question:

Enoch 7:3

3
became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed.

Most scholars agree the the word is not "ells;" it's "Elioud."

Nickelsburg/Vanderkam translates verse 2 from a Greek text which says nothing about the height of the giants.

“And they conceived from them and bore to them great giants. And the giants begot Nephilim, and to the Nephilim were born Elioud- and they were growing in accordance with their greatness”.

You're free to believe whatever ypu want. I will stick to my bible. and have no desire to argue over such rubbish. I've been on countless threads about this stuff=---and I'm quite fed up with it. I will block this thread. Have fun.

 

[GedaliahMaegil]

That's Modern Hebrew. I prefer the Ancient pronunciation. That's one reason why I didn't say Jews.

It's from the Masoretic text, which is in no way modern. I don't know whose teachings you've been copying-and-pasting, but you're off base.

Enoch was available to Yahshua. He quoted it to Sadducees, who too weren't acquainted with scripture.

"Yeshua (יֵשׁ֨וּעַ)". Please, stop making up names.

 

[Aussie Pete]

It may not be scripture but the book contains one of the earliest recorded examples of Alien Abduction and recorded evidence of Alien activity on Earth at that time. Its an interesting read and provides a whole new slant on why god sent the flood. The Nephalim Aliens distorted the purity of Adam's DNA. I guess God wanted his created humans pure.

Genesis does the same. I don't see any need for the book of Enoch. I agree with the idea that the flood was to wipe out the race corrupted by the "sons of God". Noah was not "blameless", he was also a sinner. But if you see it as pure physically, it makes perfect sense.

 

[timothyu]

Perhaps Enoch lessens the power given to the Moses collection, the Torah, because Enoch came first?? Or is it because like Christians don't like to relate to the Hebrew era, the Hebrew era was not interested in pre-flood Pyramids times?? Every dog has their day and apparently we have had three eras to contend with.