The Book of Enoch

[daq]

Indeed. Add the fact that Yahshua referenced it; and it should not be ignored.

In one place he did more than merely reference, (Matthew 22:13).

The problem, is that in cave 11, at Qumran a complete copy of the Book of Enoch was found. which does include the Parables of Enoch, all of the Messiah Yahshua talk.

Wrong again.

"No trace of the Parables of Enoch has been discovered at Qumran*, and it is widely considered today to be a composition of the latter first century C.E.. If a pre-Christain copy of the Parables were discovered, it would create a sensation"

~Michael Wise
Dead Sea Scrolls Scholar

*That he knew about at that time (Cave 11)

I've heard rumors of this but haven't yet seen any actual text: is there anything more recent on this you can point me to, perhaps with a link?

For now Enoch 10: 4-6:

4
and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world.' And again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azâzêl hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening
5
in the desert, which is in Dûdâêl, and cast him therein.

Quoted from in Matthew 22:13

The Book of Enoch NT Verses

I am a little surprised that the linked site is missing the Matthew 22:13 quote from Enoch 10:4, which is no doubt the most telling of all direct quotes from 1Enoch, because it is Meshiah who quotes it. The only thing omitted in the Matthew quote is the name Azazel, and the only thing added is the word outer, added to outer darkness, (because it is expounded in the Enoch text with the place name Dudael).

"And again the Lord said to Raphael, Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness:"

Matthew 22:13 ASV
13 Then the king said to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and cast him out into the outer darkness; there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.

 

[HARK!]

I've heard rumors of this but haven't yet seen any actual text: is there anything more recent on this you can point me to, perhaps with a link?

Aramaic Enoch Scroll - Wikipedia

 

[Ligurian]

The book of Enoch is not in harmony with the rest of Scripture. Here are some examples:

a. The story of angels having sex with women contradicts Jesus’ saying in Matthew 22:30: “For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven” (Mat 22:30 NKJV). This means angels are not sexual beings.

The "angels of God in Heaven" are not fallen angels.

 

[Torah Keeper]

The story of angels taking human wives is in Genesis as well. It is scriptural.

There are several possibilites as to how they did it:

1. They possessed men. So it was really demon-possessed men marrying demon-possessed human women, and their children were supernatural giants....hmmm. Seems unusual. Demon-possessed people don't typically have superpowered giant children.
2. They made bodies for themselves with genetic engineering/cyborg technology and then inhabited these otherwise soulless bodies. Their children may also have been genetically engineered humanoids. (I lean toward this theory).
3. Angels are physically able to have children, they just are not allowed to. (Unusual but possible).

 

[daq]

The story of angels taking human wives is in Genesis as well. It is scriptural.

There are several possibilites as to how they did it:

1. They possessed men. So it was really demon-possessed men marrying demon-possessed human women, and their children were supernatural giants....hmmm. Seems unusual. Demon-possessed people don't typically have superpowered giant children.
2. They made bodies for themselves with genetic engineering/cyborg technology and then inhabited these otherwise soulless bodies. Their children may also have been genetically engineered humanoids. (I lean toward this theory).
3. Angels are physically able to have children, they just are not allowed to. (Unusual but possible).

His Excellency (Yithrow) Reuel (Raguel) had seven daughters. The doctrine is sevenfold.

 

[Humble Penny]

Zacharey Bauer presents a series on the Book of Enoch. This is part 1. I'll be providing a review of the entire series.

Matthew Maurey discovered ocean currents; but what prompted him to search was Psalms 8:8.

This fact is used by some to demonstrate inspiration of the Bible.

The Book of Enoch similarly presents an example of inspiration.

Enoch 3:1

Observe and see how (in the winter) all the trees seem as though they had withered and shed all their leaves, except fourteen trees, which do not lose their foliage but retain the old foliage from two to three years till the new comes.

Science today confirms this.

Evergreen families
Family name Example
Araucariaceae Kauri
Cupressaceae Sequoia
Pinaceae Pine
Podocarpaceae Real yellowwood
Taxaceae Yew
Cyatheaceae Australian tree fern
Aquifoliaceae Holly
Fagaceae Live oak
Oleaceae Shamel ash
Myrtaceae Eucalyptus
Arecaceae Coconut
Lauraceae Bay
Magnoliaceae Southern magnolia
Cycadaceae Queen sago

Evergreen - Wikipedia

Enoch is the most quoted, or eluded to, book in the Bible; but it's not in the Bible. Enoch is quoted, or eluded to in the B'rit Chadasha over 100 times.

Psalms is quoted 68 times in the Bible.

So what is the objection to this book. It is purported that it is because it speaks heavily of the Angels who sinned.

(CLV) Ju 1:6
Besides, messengers who keep not their own sovereignty, but leave their own habitation, He has kept in imperceptible bonds under gloom for the judging of the great day.

(CLV) 2Pt 2:4
For if God spares not sinning messengers, but thrusting them into the gloomy caverns of Tartarus, gives them up to be kept for chastening judging;

Who's offspring were giants.

(CLV) Am 2:9
Yet I exterminated the Amorite before you, Whose loftiness was like the loftiness of the cedars, And safeguarded was he as the oaks. I exterminated his fruit from above, And his roots from beneath.

This is the introduction to this series:

Great job brother! Always love reading your thoughts and views. You really do dig deep with your research.

 

[visionary]

Ever wonder why demons need to possess bodies and devils do not? There is a difference between bad angels [devils] and demons. Take anyone who has or wanted to get involved with Satan, and it immediately gets sexual. But Satan has no desire to possess because it hampers his freedom. Demons on the other hand are not so much sexually interested as much as they are interested in possessing. So why? I believe that demons are the undead souls of rebellious angel's offspring and need the bodies to possess. Devils on the other hand are fine in their sphere and can come as a spirit but can not be holy or in the flesh which they do not want to possess.

Mary getting impregnated by God, produces an eternal being, must have upset the Devil to no end. They can not and have not been able to produce offspring that
can not keep the flesh alive like Yeshua can. Interesting dilemma. How can he out do God, when he can't even do this. This is a challenge that up to now Satan has not been able to meet. Try as the demons might, possession of a body is not the same as bring a body back to life. Yeah, Satan as a great need to produce a eternal offspring.

 

[HARK!]

Prophesy, and maybe the first. Jubilees.4:18. “And he (Enoch) was the first to write a testimony, and he testified to the sons of men among the generations of the earth, and recounted the weeks of the jubilees, and made known to them the days of the years, and set in order the months and recounted the Sabbaths of the years as we made (them) known to him. 19. And what was and what will be he saw in a vision of his sleep, as it will happen to the children of men throughout their generations until the day of judgment; he saw and understood everything, and wrote his testimony, and placed the testimony on earth for all the children of men and for their generations”.

I've presented some studies on the Book of Jubilees here:

Is the Book of Jubilees Torah?

And here:

MJ Only - Jubilees is Torah According to 4Q266

 

[daq]

Only 1 person mentioned Enoch. He didn’t mention a book.

Jude didn't just mention Enoch. Jude quoted Enoch. Where did Jude get the quote?

Him quoting Enoch was in relation to what he was writing about.

That last statement is surely true, Dkh587, it has everything to do with what Yhudah was writing about, however, that very fact overturns just about all objections. It is a direct quote and not only that but Yhudah says Henok prophesied. That statement says quite a bit more than simply stating that Henok was a Prophet: for it means that both the passage quoted, and the scroll from where it came, Yhudah considered to be scripture.

And not only this but in the wider context Yhudah is saying that Henok prophesied "of these", (or more correctly, "against these"), when he quotes from Sefer Henok, meaning that from his own context he speaks of the very same entities he himself is writing about in almost the whole epistle. Therefore, essentially, the entire Epistle of Yhudah is based on what is taught in Sefer Henok and is even speaking of the same evil entities which are gibborim of old time, anshei-men having been named, (Genesis 6:4), anthropoi-manfaced of old time, those having been written down beforehand unto this judgment, (Jude 1:4).

This genos of anthropon-manfaced can creep in unawares alongside you while you are feasting in the Word and deceive you. Yhudah is warning the reader to earnestly contend for the faith: and his warning comes from the Torah, Prophets, Writings, and surely Sefer Henok.

 

[visionary]

The story of angels taking human wives is in Genesis as well. It is scriptural.

There are several possibilites as to how they did it:

1. They possessed men. So it was really demon-possessed men marrying demon-possessed human women, and their children were supernatural giants....hmmm. Seems unusual. Demon-possessed people don't typically have superpowered giant children.
2. They made bodies for themselves with genetic engineering/cyborg technology and then inhabited these otherwise soulless bodies. Their children may also have been genetically engineered humanoids. (I lean toward this theory).
3. Angels are physically able to have children, they just are not allowed to. (Unusual but possible).

I agree with 1. Disagree with 2. and agree with 3. I am aware that the belief that fallen angels regularly have sex with humans and this belief runs deep in the Jewish and Christian traditions. Genesis says that, prior to the flood of Noah, fallen angels mated with women to produce a race of giants. In one of his letters to the Corinthians, the apostle Paul argued that women could protect themselves from being raped by demons by wearing veils over their heads.

In one of the first scenes of the gospel, Yeshua casts an unclean spirit out of a man in the synagogue at Capernaum. But here is where I differ from many in regards to demons and devils. Devils are evil angels and demons are the procreation of their mating with humans. Let me explain, those giants from the mating die but the spirit of devils live on as demons. Demons are not like devils, in that they want to inhabit bodies, even if it is into pigs running off a cliff. Devils, evil angels, on the other hand, harass, oppress, deceive, torture and torment but have no interest in inhabiting the human body.

Satanism has a variety of connotations: the renunciation and denial of God, the ascendence of evil over good, the forces of darkness, the use of ritual evocations of demons in rooms lit only by black candles, and sacrifices and sexual orgies. In the cases of sexual orgies, it is for the purpose of Satan sexually impregnating the woman with his seed.

From a book called Legends of the Jews by Louis Ginzberg (1909) which is a collection of texts from the Midrash and the Talmud there is a passage that quite clearly describes the event. When God bestowed Paradise upon the first pair of mankind, He warned them particularly against carnal intercourse with each other. But after the fall of Eve, Satan, in the guise of the serpent, approached her, and the fruit of their union was Cain, the ancestor of all the impious generations that were rebellious toward God, and rose up against Him. Cain's descent from Satan, who is the angel Samael, was revealed in his seraphic appearance. At his birth, the exclamation was wrung from Eve, "I have gotten a man through an angel of the Lord."

 

[Paul4JC]

The Apostle Jude did not know that what he regarded as scripture (1Enoch) two generations later would be disregarded by so-called church fathers.

 

[timothyu]

The Apostle Jude did not know that what he regarded as scripture (1Enoch) two generations later would be disregarded by so-called church fathers.

Gentiles know best doncha know.

 

[SuperCow]

The Apostle Jude did not know that what he regarded as scripture (1Enoch) two generations later would be disregarded by so-called church fathers.

If Jude is to be accepted as an inspired author, then the opinions of church fathers from two generations later who are not considered inspired should be irrelevant. Otherwise, your choices are that the Bible is not infallible doctrine, Jude is not an inspired author, or our current versions of the Bible were corrupted long ago.

 

[Paul4JC]

I am a little surprised that the linked site is missing the Matthew 22:13 quote from Enoch 10:4, which is no doubt the most telling of all direct quotes from 1Enoch, because it is Meshiah who quotes it. The only thing omitted in the Matthew quote is the name Azazel, and the only thing added is the word outer, added to outer darkness, (because it is expounded in the Enoch text with the place name Dudael).

"And again the Lord said to Raphael, Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness:"

Matthew 22:13 ASV
13 Then the king said to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and cast him out into the outer darkness; there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.

The Apostles Jude and Peter allude to the same event....

[Jde 1:6, 13 NIV] And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. ... 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

[2Pe 2:4 NIV] For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

 

[daq]

The Apostles Jude and Peter allude to the same event....

[Jde 1:6, 13 NIV] And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. ... 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

[2Pe 2:4 NIV] For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

Also see reply #189 above.

So then, what exactly are "the valleys of the earth" in Henok 10:12 where they are bound for seventy generations? (equal to seventy seventies, Psalms 90:10, and also likely a secondary sod understanding of the first two words in Daniel 9:24a).

 

[SuperCow]

Also see reply #189 above.

So then, what exactly are "the valleys of the earth" in Henok 10:12 where they are bound for seventy generations? (equal to seventy seventies, Psalms 90:10, and also likely a secondary sod understanding of the first two words in Daniel 9:24a).

A generation is not 70 or 80 years as per Psalms. In 70 or 80 years you can have 3 or 4 generations living simultaneously. A generation is closer to 30 years on average, and prior to the flood it was more like 100, if the genealogies in Genesis 5 were firstborn.

Now, if you're looking for a cool coincidence, count the generations from Enoch to Jesus in Luke chapter 3:23-38. It is interesting that the number of generations between Enoch and Jesus is exactly 70. (Including Enoch and Jesus. Maybe it's not a coincidence?)

 

[Paul4JC]

Also see reply #189 above.

So then, what exactly are "the valleys of the earth" in Henok 10:12 where they are bound for seventy generations? (equal to seventy seventies, Psalms 90:10, and also likely a secondary sod understanding of the first two words in Daniel 9:24a).

Literally "Under the earth." deep in a special compartment of sheol/hades 2 Peter 2:4 correctly uses the word Tartarus. The word he gets from Hesiod's Theogony reffering the bottomless pit. “725 For it is that far from earth down to misty Tartaro 730… while above it grow The roots of earth and the unharvested sea. There the Titans are concealed in the misty gloom 735 … There is no way out for them.” Hesiod Theogony.pdf The same word is used in The Septuagint version of the book of Proverbs. [NETS 24:50] “The leech has three lovingly beloved daughters,12 but these three did not satisfy her, and the fourth was not pleased to say Enough! :51 Hades and love of a woman and Tartarus and earth not filled with water, water and fire also will never say It suffices”

Probably the same is open by Abbadon/Apollyon in Rev 9

—“the huge chasm (χάσμα μέγα, Theogony v. 740) that lies between the surface of the earth (χθών) and Tartarus (cf. Theogony vv. 736–745 and 807–814). Because of its geographical location and qualitative description, χάος and ᾅδης can easily be identified with one another. Moreover, Pseudo-Apollodorus notes that Tartarus, dark as Erebos, is a region in Hades (Bibliotheca 1.1). Χάος’s voraciousness is intrinsic in its very name: the term is related to verbs such as χάσκω (to yawn, open the mouth) and χανδάνω (to contain) and is properly translated as chasm.” cast down to tartarus ("hell") - 2 Peter 2:4 - Tentmaker

This genos of anthropon-manfaced can creep in unawares alongside you while you are feasting in the Word and deceive you. Yhudah is warning the reader to earnestly contend for the faith: and his warning comes from the Torah, Prophets, Writings, and surely Sefer Henok.

I believe they leave this task to demons, aka the disembodied spirits of the first generation Nephilim. Archie T. Wright - Origin of Evil Spirits The Reception of Genesis 6 1-4 in Early Jewish Literature is a great book on this subject. [The Origin of Evil Spirits - Mohr Siebeck table of contents]

 

[daq]

A generation is not 70 or 80 years as per Psalms. In 70 or 80 years you can have 3 or 4 generations living simultaneously. A generation is closer to 30 years on average, and prior to the flood it was more like 100, if the genealogies in Genesis 5 were firstborn.

Now, if you're looking for a cool coincidence, count the generations from Enoch to Jesus in Luke chapter 3:23-38. It is interesting that the number of generations between Enoch and Jesus is exactly 70. (Including Enoch and Jesus. Maybe it's not a coincidence?)

Yeah, Luke contains the LXX genealogy, (Arphakshad produces Kainan (2)). That is the time span from the birth of Henok to 70 AD, (or at least it is in my understanding of the full chronology). Luke is basically telling you the same thing I said: seventy generations.

70*70 = 4900 = the Ten Weeks of Henok
10*490 = 4900 = the Ten Weeks of Henok

There are likewise ten weeks in one year consisting of 490 yamim, (seven yamim in a sacred calendar day), and thus, seventy weeks in ten years for a total of 4900 yamim, (Daniel 1:12, "test your servants ten days", Revelation 2:10, "you shall have tribulation ten days"). שבעים שבעים are decreed upon your people.

 

[SuperCow]

Yeah, Luke contains the LXX genealogy, (Arphakshad produces Kainan (2)). That is the time span from the birth of Henok to 70 AD, (or at least it is in my understanding of the full chronology). Luke is basically telling you the same thing I said: seventy generations.

70*70 = 4900 = the Ten Weeks of Henok
10*490 = 4900 = the Ten Weeks of Henok

There are likewise ten weeks in one year consisting of 490 yamim, (seven yamim in a sacred calendar day), and thus, seventy weeks in ten years for a total of 4900 yamim, (Daniel 1:12, "test your servants ten days", Revelation 2:10, "you shall have tribulation ten days"). שבעים שבעים are decreed upon your people.

Is "yamim" supposed to equal a year in your calculations? Because if it is, then the birth of Enoch to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD is not 4900 years. At most, it would be about 4500 years, and that is stretching the LXX chronology. If you use Masoretic the most it can be is about 3450 years.

 

[daq]

Is "yamim" supposed to equal a year in your calculations? Because if it is, then the birth of Enoch to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD is not 4900 years. At most, it would be about 4500 years, and that is stretching the LXX chronology. If you use Masoretic the most it can be is about 3450 years.

So we disagree, and I am fine with that, but I was not intending to introduce a chronology study into the thread as that would surely drive this thread off topic.

As for yamim, it is simply one of the plural forms of yom, (masculine plural). For example, in six yamim were made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is within them.