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The best evidence against Evolution

Lion Hearted Man

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LHM, by way of a trivia question:

Who did Jesus say sick people needed?

A doctor. But I'm surprised why Jesus didn't call in an infectious disease consult with all those lepers. Or maybe he could have sped up modern medicine by showing the locals how to make dapsone, rifampin, or thalidomide (yes, our friend thalidomide is used in treating leprosy ;))
 
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sfs

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By law they are allowed to keep 85% of the money to cover the cost of raising money. I hate that. I will give $20 to what looks like a good cause. Then they start sending me junk mail every month. Spending my money trying to get me to give them more money. I want 100% of my money to go toward helping people and not to fill up my mail box with junk.
Here's the fraction of money that goes to fundraising and to their work for three major charities I picked off the top of my head:

Oxfam America: 79.5% program / 14.4% fundraising
Catholic Relief Services: 94.4% program / 3.1% fundraising
World Vision: 88.3% program / 7.5% fundraising

Maybe you should do a little more research before picking a charity to give to. Try charitynavigator.org.
 
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sfs

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Germ cells - h
Born and breathing - f

It's just h for born and breathing. There are ~120 million births per year, each with ~50 new mutations. That's 6 billion new mutations per year, or more than a hundred million per week. (It's possible the number of new mutations is more like thirty, in which case it would take closer to two weeks.) With a large population, there are a lot of mutations. But I think good brother has lost interest in this line of argument.
 
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Norman321

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A doctor. But I'm surprised why Jesus didn't call in an infectious disease consult with all those lepers.
Doctors help the people that go to them for help. The church helps the people that go to them for help. Everyone is doing what they can to help the people that are asking them for help. Doctors respect what the church is able to do and the church respects what doctors are able to do. Why do people think that there is a problem when there clearly is no problem and no conflict?
 
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mzungu

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Doctors help the people that go to them for help. The church helps the people that go to them for help. Everyone is doing what they can to help the people that are asking them for help. Doctors respect what the church is able to do and the church respects what doctors are able to do. Why do people think that there is a problem when there clearly is no problem and no conflict?
The problem arises when creationists want to get rid of ToE ans supplant it with creationism. Do that and you will end up in the dark ages. Creationists have tried again and again with lawsuits. So far they have partial success. Also home schooled children are being indoctrinated into hating ToE. The Creation Museum will do more harm to our young by giving them a totally unscientific view of life.

God help us all if creationists have their way!
 
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Norman321

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The problem arises when creationists want to get rid of ToE ans supplant it with creationism. Do that and you will end up in the dark ages.
So your paranoid? Relax, perfect love casts out all fear.

1 John 4:18(NKJV) 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

Also home schooled children
I do not really believe in Home Schooling. Because I do not think that they learn the social skills needed to get by in this world. Some people may not have an option though because of the sacrifice involved with sending your children to a private school. Your point is mute though because home schooled children test higher and know "ToE" better then public school children. If you have a problem with the education that our young people are required by the state to receive. Then you need to get involved and do something about it. Perhaps you could start with the PTA. Or volunteer in some other way working with our young people.
 
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mzungu

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So your paranoid? Relax, perfect love casts out all fear.
When creationists manage to interfere with the teaching of
ToE in schools then Yes I do have fear! The very fear that I have when I see in this day and age the Bible literals adhering to the letter to the commandment of "Let not a sorceress live".
 
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Astridhere

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'Evolution' refers to both the fact of evolution (a change in allele frequency over time) and the theory of evolution (the theory that all life is descended from a common ancestor, and variation is due to evolution by natural selection).

So, with that established, what's the best evidence or rationale against one or both?

The best evidence against anything evolution has to offer is that none of these experts can make up their mind which scenario is the more credible. These below cannot both be right but they can both be wrong. This is what should be taught in schools as opposed to the glossy version with no warts.

pone.0007062.g001.jpg
 
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mkatzwork

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The best evidence against anything evolution has to offer is that none of these experts can make up their mind which scenario is the more credible. These below cannot both be right but they can both be wrong. This is what should be taught in schools as opposed to the glossy version with no warts.

pone.0007062.g001.jpg

If that's the best evidence you've got...oh dear for you. I mean really, because that's stunningly feeble.

The fact that there is disagreement about which is the best fit to the evidence we have doesn't actually mean that a) the evidence somehow doesn't exist (because clearly, there is some argument over the evidence, so it doesn't not exist and b) any form of disagreement must mean the entire thing is wrong. What you've found evidence of is really the very thing that is welcomed in science and shunned in religion - discussion about which conclusion best fits the facts, as opposed to which facts best fit the Biblically (or other holy book etc.) presupposed conclusion.

Whereas - whilst not all religions can be right, every one of them can be wrong, and there's no evidence for ANY of them so they're not looking too strong.

What really matters is at what level any issues in evolution are taught, because the theory has been shown sound time and time again. You wouldn't teach kids in elementary school that Newton's laws break down on the quantum level. Children don't start out at university level, you do realize?
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Doctors help the people that go to them for help. The church helps the people that go to them for help. Everyone is doing what they can to help the people that are asking them for help. Doctors respect what the church is able to do and the church respects what doctors are able to do. Why do people think that there is a problem when there clearly is no problem and no conflict?
Because people go to the church for medical problems, eschewing actual medicine for superstitious hocum.
 
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jpcedotal

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How is evolution different from real science?

One must deny God first or at least revise what He has revealed to us for evolution to be able to grab hold. Real science does not require this. Sure other sciences do not mention God literally but one can still believe exactly what His Word tells us and believe in the science as well.

Evolution does not allow this...
 
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sfs

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How is evolution different from real science?

One must deny God first or at least revise what He has revealed to us for evolution to be able to grab hold. Real science does not require this. Sure other sciences do not mention God literally but one can still believe exactly what His Word tells us and believe in the science as well.

Evolution does not allow this...
I guess astronomy and geology aren't real sciences either.
 
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Norman321

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Because people go to the church for medical problems, eschewing actual medicine for superstitious hocum.
You can not accuse mainstream christianity for the non confirmists and what mainstream christianity clearly does not believe in or endorse. As you atheists love to say that would be a false accusation. Actually if a pastor were to advise against seeking medical advise that could be considered a criminal offense. Although I am not so sure they should advise people to go to doctors either. Doctors are considered to be the third leading cause of death and there are plenty of times they do more harm then good. Either way it is up to the individual to decide if they want to seek medical treatment or not.

You could look at: "Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services". If you want to see what the Catholic Church says about this. I am sure they have a well balanced approach.
 
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mzungu

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You can not accuse mainstream christianity for the non confirmists and what mainstream christianity clearly does not believe in or endorse. As you atheists love to say that would be a false accusation. Actually if a pastor were to advise against seeking medical advise that could be considered a criminal offense. Although I am not so sure they should advise people to go to doctors either. Doctors are considered to be the third leading cause of death and there are plenty of times they do more harm then good. Either way it is up to the individual to decide if they want to seek medical treatment or not.

You could look at: "Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services". If you want to see what the Catholic Church says about this. I am sure they have a well balanced approach.
I hope neither you nor any of your beloved ones ever get into a serious life threatening accident! Perhaps if you were to carry with you a card that specifically warned anyone not to give you any medical assistance if you were ever to need any then and only then will I believe you are not being hypocritical!
 
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mzungu

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How is evolution different from real science?

One must deny God first or at least revise what He has revealed to us for evolution to be able to grab hold. Real science does not require this. Sure other sciences do not mention God literally but one can still believe exactly what His Word tells us and believe in the science as well.

Evolution does not allow this...
First of all Evolution is a PROCESS and Science is a TOOL. Science formulated ToE based on empirical evidences in order to explain evolution. There is no mention of God anywhere.

Secondly (assuming you have read this far) one does not need to be in conflict with science if one sees religion as a spiritual guide rather than a textbook guide.

You can enjoy watching Star Trek without having to criticize the bad science involved.

Likewise you can enjoy a Biblical film without having to be a Christian.
 
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Norman321

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I hope neither you nor any of your beloved ones ever get into a serious life threatening accident! Perhaps if you were to carry with you a card that specifically warned anyone not to give you any medical assistance if you were ever to need any then and only then will I believe you are not being hypocritical!
That is a conversation my wife and I have all the time. I actually do not believe in living wills because the Bible says to choose life. Same with abortion, the Bible says to choose life, not death. Although you are free to make your choice if you want to choose life or death.

Deu 30 19 New International Version (©1984)
This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live

I would be a hyprcritical if I made a choice for death when the Bible says to choose life. In fact christians tend to believe that we will live forever. It is the non christians that have made a choice not to live forever.

● Do not give professional legal, financial, medical, or other counseling. Do not direct, imply, or suggest that others should disregard doctors' orders regarding medical diagnosis and/or treatment.

● Those who do not adhere to the Statement of Faith are welcome as members and participants in discussions, but you are required to respect these beliefs, even if you do not share them.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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How is evolution different from real science?

One must deny God first or at least revise what He has revealed to us for evolution to be able to grab hold.
When God's Creation contradicts your interpretation of God's word, isn't it more rational to question your interpretation, than what God himself has created?

Real science does not require this.
On the contrary, science steams ahead with no regard to religious beliefs. Early scientists were Creationists going out to find physical proof of the Flood - and came back believers in an old Earth and a metaphorical Bible.

Science has always challenged religious beliefs. The Church believed in geocentrism, and pointed to various passages in the Bible to support this - but then science came along and showed it all to be wrong. The Bible needed to be reinterpreted - even if you think the new interpretation is the right one, the fact remains that the science of heliocentrism caused believers to re-evaluated God's word.

Sure other sciences do not mention God literally but one can still believe exactly what His Word tells us and believe in the science as well.
Every science, not just biology, contradicts a literal interpretation of the Bible. Archaeology does not support Exodus. Genetics and geology do not support Noah's Flood. Astronomy does not support geocentrism. Biology does not support rabbits chewing cud, nor grasshoppers having four feet.

Evolution does not allow this...
Like all other sciences, evolution contradicts a literal interpretation of the Bible - but not a metaphorical one. Singling evolution out is just special pleading.
 
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