The 10 Commandments are done away!

[Sophrosyne]

Be not deceived. The title of this thread is in error and the holy scriptures tell us this. For those who are interested in reading this 19 page and counting thread, they might wish to expend far less time reading this informative article that supports the fact that the ten commandments are not abolished.
Did Paul Contradict Christ About Abolishing the Law?
Ephesians 2:15 March 17, 2015


These passages demonstrate the proof that the ten commandments are not abolished.
Matthew 22:37–40
Romans 2:14-15
Romans 13:8-10

Whoever wrote that article is a hack.... first they posit the law it abolished and then say ceremonies are not longer needed and then goes on and equates the 10 commandments are valid "on the heart" which is contradictory. I wouldn't give a wooden nickle for that site after reading that article at all.

 

[Four Angels Standing]

Whoever wrote that article is a hack.... first they posit the law it abolished and then say ceremonies are not longer needed and then goes on and equates the 10 commandments are valid "on the heart" which is contradictory. I wouldn't give a wooden nickle for that site after reading that article at all.

Maybe read the article when you're not so set in your ways and hostile toward the opposing opinion.


I would respectfully suggest others here read for themselves and do not take into account such a review. It is wholly misrepresenting the true content of the article linked.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Maybe read the article when you're not so set in your ways and hostile toward the opposing opinion.


I would respectfully suggest others here read for themselves and do not take into account such a review. It is wholly misrepresenting the true content of the article linked.

The article contradicts itself trying to prove its point, I quit reading it when I struggled to figure out why it was such a convoluted mess. I will let others read it and see if I'm correct in my assessments.

 

[bugkiller]

Maybe we can actually come together as followers of Christ on one issue. If we can quit thinking "Sabbath" for a moment or two. Just relax and think without freaking out on me.

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

I can't quote God from any other source, because, to my knowledge, we don't have any other readily available. So, you can say this is from the Torah and applies only to the Hebrews, or your could say, that God rested and sanctified the day after he finished His work and that is "His day" regardless of what limitations the Mosaic law put upon the day.

Maybe everyone can agree that God sanctified THAT day of the week. It would be sanctified if he had never chosen to make the Hebrews His people, because the Creator said so. If the Creator says something, I believe it.

Please show us where that day ended. Then please show us that God did the same the next 7th day. You can't and your argument fails.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Maybe read the article when you're not so set in your ways and hostile toward the opposing opinion.


I would respectfully suggest others here read for themselves and do not take into account such a review. It is wholly misrepresenting the true content of the article linked.

Does not being hostile in you opinion mean embracing your idea? Bet it does.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

The article contradicts itself trying to prove its point, I quit reading it when I struggled to figure out why it was such a convoluted mess. I will let others read it and see if I'm correct in my assessments.

I trust your judgment about the site and article. I won't debate either and never go to other sites to be persuaded.

bugkiller

 

[Sophrosyne]

I trust your judgment about the site and article. I won't debate either and never go to other sites to be persuaded.

bugkiller

I agree, people who haven't been on the site long that just pop in and post links to articles to me are not to be taken seriously let them post their own thoughts instead for awhile so we can truly see who they are. Too often links posted in debate to 2nd party sites are junk anyway if they can't make their point using the Bible or logic or history then it won't stand up well here under the microscope.

 

[Four Angels Standing]

I agree, people who haven't been on the site long that just pop in and post links to articles to me are not to be taken seriously let them post their own thoughts instead for awhile so we can truly see who they are. Too often links posted in debate to 2nd party sites are junk anyway if they can't make their point using the Bible or logic or history then it won't stand up well here under the microscope.

Nothing like making new members feel welcome is there.

It doesn't appear that using the scriptures alone has worked thus far in 20 pages of just that. Perhaps an independent collection of thought that is not predisposed to being judged by those who have been here for over one hundred thousand posts of their own, and others, was thought worth a try.
Either way, the scriptures are clear. Those who teach the ten commandments no longer matter wouldn't have to argue for 20 pages if they were right.

 

[Dkh587]

Then please explain it to me. I'd bet you would say I don't understand the OC either. Let's see something better than insults. I's also like very much for you to expose what I've twisted. Zactly what lawlessness am I promoting?

bugkiller

Lawlessness is living a life of sin, which is a life of breaking(not keeping) God's commandments. So, for a person to teach others that they don't have to/need to keep the commandments is teaching, promoting and encouraging lawlessness

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law(Torah), or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:17-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

According to the words of Jesus, any man who breaks and teaches others to break God's commandments(Torah, more properly translated instructions) is going to be called least in the kingdom of heaven.

Notice he also said those that keep and teach the Torah will be called great in the kingdom

By the way, I don't know if you or anybody else noticed, but heaven and earth haven't passed away yet. According to Jesus, that means the Torah hasn't gone anywhere

 

[Sophrosyne]

Nothing like making new members feel welcome is there.

It doesn't appear that using the scriptures alone has worked thus far in 20 pages of just that. Perhaps an independent collection of thought that is not predisposed to being judged by those who have been her for over one hundred thousand posts of their own, and others, was thought worth a try.
Either way, the scriptures are clear. Those who teach the ten commandments no longer matter wouldn't have to argue for 20 pages if they were right.

You are right in the scriptures seem to be ignored by the Sabbath promoters here and independent collections of thought mean nothing to them either as we have posted others stuff too so because of that we decided to IGNORE links to other sites as we aren't going to argue against people who aren't posting here. As for your "new member" claim that means little to us. I'm guessing you are another SDA adherent due to the name you chose.

 

[Four Angels Standing]

Lawlessness is living a life of sin, which is a life of breaking(not keeping) God's commandments. So, for a person to teach others that they don't have to/need to keep the commandments is teaching, promoting and encouraging lawlessness

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law(Torah), or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:17-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

According to the words of Jesus, any man who breaks and teaches others to break God's commandments(Torah, more properly translated instructions) is going to be called least in the kingdom of heaven.

Notice he also said those that keep and teach the Torah will be called great in the kingdom

By the way, I don't know if you or anybody else noticed, but heaven and earth haven't passed away yet. According to Jesus, that means the Torah hasn't gone anywhere

Galatians 1 imparts great insight to this discussion I think.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Galatians 1 imparts great insight to this discussion I think.

If you don't read all of Galations and instead read a version that someone had used for target practice with a shotgun I think a discussion with SDAs is a wasted effort.

 

[Four Angels Standing]

You are right in the scriptures seem to be ignored by the Sabbath promoters here and independent collections of thought mean nothing to them either as we have posted others stuff too so because of that we decided to IGNORE links to other sites as we aren't going to argue against people who aren't posting here.

Perhaps the links to articles off-site aren't intended to encourage argument with that sources author, but rather afford an opportunity to read independent sources outside of the drama that appears to transpire in matters such as this.
After all, the argument ensues over, in this case, the Decalogue. Therefore, whether an outside independent source is used to further the topic, the debate is still informed among the contenders.

 

[Four Angels Standing]

If you don't read all of Galations and instead read a version that someone had used for target practice with a shotgun I think a discussion with SDAs is a wasted effort.

I hope you understand I mean this in all Christian charity. I don't understand what you're saying there.
I understood this forum to be that of General Theology. How does Seventh Day Adventists come to be a point of contention or ridicule?

 

[Sophrosyne]

Perhaps the links to articles off-site aren't intended to encourage argument with that sources author, but rather afford an opportunity to read independent sources outside of the drama that appears to transpire in matters such as this.
After all, the argument ensues over, in this case, the Decalogue. Therefore, whether an outside independent source is used to further the topic, the debate is still informed among the contenders.

Well if you aren't really interested in debating in these threads then I seriously doubt anyone will pay attention to you at all.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I hope you understand I mean this in all Christian charity. I don't understand what you're saying there.
I understood this forum to be that of General Theology. How does Seventh Day Adventists come to be a point of contention or ridicule?

Christian charity isn't debate, and SDA's have pretty much earned contention here for their condemnation of other Christians and promotion of the Sabbath commandment using questionable tactics. I would say often it is the SDAs get enough charity from us IMO allowing them to continually post here calling everyone who refuses to keep the Sabbath a bunch of lawless sinners in their minds damned to hell.

 

[Dkh587]

Galatians 1 imparts great insight to this discussion I think.

How so?

 

[2 know him]

Maybe we can actually come together as followers of Christ on one issue. If we can quit thinking "Sabbath" for a moment or two. Just relax and think without freaking out on me.

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

I can't quote God from any other source, because, to my knowledge, we don't have any other readily available. So, you can say this is from the Torah and applies only to the Hebrews, or your could say, that God rested and sanctified the day after he finished His work and that is "His day" regardless of what limitations the Mosaic law put upon the day.

Maybe everyone can agree that God sanctified THAT day of the week. It would be sanctified if he had never chosen to make the Hebrews His people, because the Creator said so. If the Creator says something, I believe it.

I have not tried to make you uncomfortable, I am just trying to state what I see in the teachings of Christ.

I really appreciate that you are passionate about what you believe, as I am also and only wish more people actually cared about their faith enough to have it openly challenged the way you are allowing yours to be.

I have looked at the 2 verses you mentioned and will acknowledge that the Lord blessed and sanctified the 7th day, but did he do so also to the 14th and 21st day? Before you respond, understand that the verses don't institutionalize a weekly Sabbath, but rather only state that God blessed the 7th day: after the 6 days of Creation and nothing more; The 7 day consecutive Sabbath wasn't institutionalized until the 10 commandments where given to the children of Israel.

Can I ask you if you considered post 368 and in light of post 367 do you not see that the Old covenant provides zero hope for you: if you have sinned while you were aware of the sin before you did it. Here are the verses that damn all under the Old Covenant who have sinned with afore knowledge of the sin:

Num 15:22 And if ye have erred, and not observed all these commandments, which the LORD hath spoken unto Moses,
Num 15:23 Even all that the LORD hath commanded you by the hand of Moses, from the day that the LORD commanded Moses, and henceforward among your generations;
Num 15:24 Then it shall be, if ought be committed by ignorance without the knowledge of the congregation, that all the congregation shall offer one young bullock for a burnt offering, for a sweet savour unto the LORD, with his meat offering, and his drink offering, according to the manner, and one kid of the goats for a sin offering.
Num 15:25 And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance:
Num 15:26 And it shall be forgiven all the congregation of the children of Israel, and the stranger that sojourneth among them; seeing all the people were in ignorance.
Num 15:27 And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.
Num 15:28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
Num 15:29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
Num 15:30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Num 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

Jesus did not come to reaffirm the Old Covenant, as his teachings clearly cannot be reconciled with it: will you not now concede that?

P.S. If you have knowingly ever done wrong before you did it: you are under condemnation and have no hope or chance of forgiveness according to the verses above.

Again I ask: please show me where Christ taught obedience to the Sabbath, if you will finally concede that Christ's words are the bases of a NEW Covenant: if they are not and you have sinned with foreknowledge of that sin, you are under condemnation under the Old Covenant and you are just digging your own grave.

 

[Four Angels Standing]

How so?

It imparts there is no other gospel than that of Jesus Christ. And condemns those that would attempt to preach other than that which Jesus delivered to the world. Be it Paul or an Angel, the scripture says, let them be under a curse.

The false teachings that abound now in this world lead people from God not to God. And that includes that which attempts to state that God's moral law no longer applies.
A particular offense to God in my view when Jesus reiterated the commands as still applicable.

This is why the link to a independent source was provided in this highly charged emotional thread. An outside source not wrapped into the atmosphere here and yet that provides insight and scriptural proofs to support the fact that the ten commandments are still applicable for Christians. The scripture provided in that resource are able to be researched by the curious to their own satisfaction. While the article itself provides a foundation for support of the premise, that the ten commandments are still applicable, that has yet to be illustrated here.

The detractor that attempted to berate the content are entitled to their opinion of it. That opinion presented a false criticism of the article and I believe that was an attempt to dissuade readers of this thread from exercising independent thought and clicking the article link to find for themselves if its truth speaks to them. Also, the article avows the truth about the ten commandments being in force to this day. And that is contrary to that counter argument the detractor who criticized the article has been arguing for all these many pages.
Basically, the article proves Sophrosyne's arguments against the ten commandments wrong. Their hostility toward this new member in particular, and that they presume to speak for me when claiming I am not here for serious debate, is also an indicator that they are aware of this. And I would say, they hope their attitude dissuades participation further.

Anyone who argues the ten commandments no longer apply are responsible for speaking contrary to the scriptures and Jesus' own teachings. There really is no need to fight such a one as that which is intent on reiterating that position. God in the end shall have the final say when his word did not reach them in the first place.

I can say it is sad to encounter what I was forewarned about as relates to this particular board being a hotbed of flaming and chaos, but only due to the behavior of a minor number that appear intent on making it hell for others who enter unawares. Thank God there is a solution that allows those in Christ to avoid such fallen intentions as that.

I hope you find the article informative. And I hope the Galatians explanations inspires you to read for yourself. God Bless.

 

[bugkiller]

Nothing like making new members feel welcome is there.

It doesn't appear that using the scriptures alone has worked thus far in 20 pages of just that. Perhaps an independent collection of thought that is not predisposed to being judged by those who have been here for over one hundred thousand posts of their own, and others, was thought worth a try.
Either way, the scriptures are clear. Those who teach the ten commandments no longer matter wouldn't have to argue for 20 pages if they were right.

The pro law group wouldn't have to argue at all if they were correct. The Book of the Law, the Psalms, the prophets and the Gospels all testify against you. Notice I didn't include Paul who also testifies against you. It appears to me you're a man without a country.

bugkiller