The 10 Commandments are done away!

[Leroy D]

I read it wrong, sorry.

That is the problem with public places and not speaking in person.

For the next sentence, I'm going to redefine you and I, because this is why I don't do forums much.

You = you or most everyone
I = me or some one else

You assume that I want to put you down and/or prove you wrong.

Normal definitions restored.

People read with evil in their minds and think the worst when it should not be that way. These aren't Christian beliefs/thoughts/actions, they are of the Satan. Let's think the best of what each other writes and when I want to call you a turd, then I'll do that and you can do likewise.


You believe that I want to proselytize (your word). Maybe originally because a friend of mine asked me too, but I'll tell you Bob, I do NOT want to be right. It would make me very happy to be wrong. I want to be wrong Bob.

Even though you took shots at me again, I'll not do that Bob. I'm gonna turn the other cheek and tell you I love you and forgive you and just forget it.

So all of the law is dead except what Jesus said was HIS commandment as you mentioned. Maybe there are other things as well that He said that would count as something we should "do", not for being able to go to heaven lest works get us there, but might get us an "at a boy" or a bigger house or crown.

Would you please tell me why there are over 700 commandments, statutes, and judgments in the OT and every one of those, except one was repeated in the NT? I mean, what is the point of repeating all of those, aren't they nailed to his cross according to Paul?
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
(IF, "handwriting of ordinances" doesn't mean 'law' but in Greek means the debt that must be paid for breaking the law, the the debt for breaking the law was against us and Jesus paid that debt for every one who believes forever). The law was never against us, but the penalty for breaking it was.

I'm not against you Bob. (BTW, I was raised independent baptist)

 

[2 know him]

I just read your post and your statement "if one doesn't understand that the 10 commandments are done away they can not understand what Christ came to do."

In my opinion your statement is a ignorant one and I am stating this respectfully, I am not on this site to call names, nor to disrespect anyone. I can refute your argument with one question .... why Christ came? Christ came to fulfill everything that was spoken of him and to die on the cross, not to abolish the law, but to fulfill. Fulfill what? It does not say ;fulfill the law, it say just fulfill and you can see him throughout his life fulfilling everything that was spoken of Him. I can elaborate more on this, but I will have to write a long page. I wrote a book titled "SEEK GOD!" In this book I have a small section on the Law, hope one day you pick it up and read that section.

I am Sephardic Jew, I believe that though we keep the Law of God, they are now stored in my mind and engraved in my heart and it I sin against God he will bring them to my remembrance convicted me through the law, bringing me to repentance so God can give me of my sin and cleanse me from all my unrighteousness with the blood of Yeshua. Now, the law does not justify a man, it just allows man to walk rightly and blameless, nothing to do with us being made God's righteousness through the law, we are made his righteousness in Yeshua.

As for stoning the woman, I can also explain that, but at this time I do not want to write a page on this forum.

Respectfully,

What do you do with this scripture:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Why reference the Old Covenant not being a part of the new one, if it is going to be a part of the new one and clearly state that it will not be: if the new covenant was going to reaffirm the old one and just place that same covenant in men's hearts? The old Covenant did not allow for forgiveness of sin, when one was aware of it's being wrong before doing the sin, and so if Christ did not do away with that, then there is no forgiveness for one who ever does wrong and knows what he is doing is wrong. You can't just take the parts you want and do away with the parts you don't.

 

[Leroy D]

It is good to present the other side before they get so brainwashed into someone's belief system that they refuse to see new light.

We should all be so blessed that we do not refuse to see new light.

Jews do not make a distinction between the 10 and the book. The book contained the 10.

The reason I asked about being from the tribe of Judah is that Jews are from the tribe of Judah and Levites from the tribe of Levi. People who practice Judaism are called Jews today but practicing Judaism and being a Jew are two different things...just semantics, but it always bothers me. Just because, according to you, those who practice the religion don't see the 10 and the rest of the law as two things does not mean it isn't so.

Oh, How about some scripture to back up your thoughts. I know you would like for scripture to explain it your way because of your preconceived Idea that we must observe the Sabbath because it was part of the 10 and is universal. Proof my friend proof.

This may not be good enough for you Bob, but here is a scripture for you.
Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Now, Abraham was a long time before the Mosaic Law. If I believe scripture there were commandments, statutes, laws, etc. before Mt. Sinai. We have circumcision for instance with Abraham and the Creator before the writing of the Mosaic Law. The creator wasn't too pleased with Cain for killing Abel either and Cain knew it was wrong, didn't he. Seems like there were commandments before there were ceremonial laws, health laws, land laws, etc.

John 13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

I love that one too Bob.

Why would you want to enter your theory into the debate when you cannot prove what you write?

You my friend are the one that took my original post and started quoting from it (before I deleted it) but i did not see your post until after I deleted it. So you see my friend, I didn't need the aggravation, but we are in it, and I WANT TO BE WRONG.

Sorry about that. Would you like to elaborate?

I could write a book Bob. This one is apt, because were are talking about covenants. The 13 original states got together and created a covenant called the Constitution for the United States of America. It was (in part)a document to limit the power of the federal govt, but also had some limitations on the states. Like Article 1, Section 10
"No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility."
The states failed (at least) this part, "make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts", since the money is not backed by either anymore, so there are actually no states of the union and the feds have no limits on their power either BTW. And, the USoA can not enter into war except in 3 instances (To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;) and we did that in WW I, Vietnam, Korea, and Iraq, etc. It is a contract without participants...null and void as you would say. It is just one of the myriad of things that are backwards from what we are taught. What is so funny is that everyone acts like everything is the same as it used to be here in the USoA, but it is all just a sham and so are a lot of other things.

Those are the reasons is why I questioned my religious upbringing in the first place...almost everything is a lie, Bob. If all the "christian" churches believe one thing and "many are called and few chosen", then what those millions upon millions of people believe could be wrong.

What is wrong, what do they all say, what do they all believe?

You know....talking about "few", 8 people were saved from the millions that were around in Noah's time. 5 were saved from Sodom and Gomorrah (S&G) and there were a lot of people there. That is a few, that is darn few.

Now, you are gonna say...prove in scripture that there were a lot of people in S&G. Well, Lot and Abraham had a ton of cattle Genesis 13:2, where did they sell that beef, the closest place, S&G.

You may be asking yourself...why do I want what i believe to be wrong? I love and have loved many individuals Bob. The ones who are gone didn't believe what I have come to believe and that is horrible Bob...just horrible if I am correct.

 

[bugkiller]

That is the problem with public places and not speaking in person.

For the next sentence, I'm going to redefine you and I, because this is why I don't do forums much.

You = you or most everyone
I = me or some one else

You assume that I want to put you down and/or prove you wrong.

Normal definitions restored.

People read with evil in their minds and think the worst when it should not be that way. These aren't Christian beliefs/thoughts/actions, they are of the Satan. Let's think the best of what each other writes and when I want to call you a turd, then I'll do that and you can do likewise.


You believe that I want to proselytize (your word). Maybe originally because a friend of mine asked me too, but I'll tell you Bob, I do NOT want to be right. It would make me very happy to be wrong. I want to be wrong Bob.

Even though you took shots at me again, I'll not do that Bob. I'm gonna turn the other cheek and tell you I love you and forgive you and just forget it.

So all of the law is dead except what Jesus said was HIS commandment as you mentioned. Maybe there are other things as well that He said that would count as something we should "do", not for being able to go to heaven lest works get us there, but might get us an "at a boy" or a bigger house or crown.

Would you please tell me why there are over 700 commandments, statutes, and judgments in the OT and every one of those, except one was repeated in the NT? I mean, what is the point of repeating all of those, aren't they nailed to his cross according to Paul?
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
(IF, "handwriting of ordinances" doesn't mean 'law' but in Greek means the debt that must be paid for breaking the law, the the debt for breaking the law was against us and Jesus paid that debt for every one who believes forever). The law was never against us, but the penalty for breaking it was.

I'm not against you Bob. (BTW, I was raised independent baptist)

You misunderstand ordinances. Ordinances aren't enforce only when they violated.

You should know how many laws there are before posting misinformation.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

We should all be so blessed that we do not refuse to see new light.

The reason I asked about being from the tribe of Judah is that Jews are from the tribe of Judah and Levites from the tribe of Levi. People who practice Judaism are called Jews today but practicing Judaism and being a Jew are two different things...just semantics, but it always bothers me. Just because, according to you, those who practice the religion don't see the 10 and the rest of the law as two things does not mean it isn't so.

This may not be good enough for you Bob, but here is a scripture for you.
Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Now, Abraham was a long time before the Mosaic Law. If I believe scripture there were commandments, statutes, laws, etc. before Mt. Sinai. We have circumcision for instance with Abraham and the Creator before the writing of the Mosaic Law. The creator wasn't too pleased with Cain for killing Abel either and Cain knew it was wrong, didn't he. Seems like there were commandments before there were ceremonial laws, health laws, land laws, etc.

But what about Deut 5:1-3 which is part of the Book of the Law? It disagrees with your idea Abraham had the law.

bugkiller

 

[Leroy D]

But what about Deut 5:1-3 which is part of the Book of the Law? It disagrees with your idea Abraham had the law.

Quite the contrary. There are different laws and different covenants that were made at different times with different people(s). The particular verse I quoted may not definitely say that the 10Cs were around, but there were commandments, laws, statutes, etc. Some of those could have been included in the Mosaic law, some of them not, but Abraham was not under Mosaic law because Moses hadn't even been born.

A covenant was being made with the Hebrews in Deut and the law of that covenant being given. That was the 10Cs, circumcision, plus a lot of other stuff which is what is typically called Mosaic Law. I'm only concerned about the 10Cs, not the rest of the law although it isn't bad law.

Abraham was definitely not under the Mosaic law, his covenant with the Creator was different. The Creator spoke directly to Abraham, we don't know everything that they talked about. He didn't need to write the 10Cs on a stone tablet for Abraham, but He needed to for the people of Moses' time, they built an idol to worship before Moses got down off the mountain. The Creator didn't leave the writing of those to Moses, HE wrote them with his own finger....TWICE.

The 10Cs were so important that the Creator spoke them aloud to the Hebrews. Deuteronomy 4:36 36 Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire. Deut 5:22 These words the Lord spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

This is really about the Sabbath, I think. That can be the only real push back, because the other 9 make perfect sense to most folks. Who is going to say that the other 9 are null and void. Who thinks that you can worship idols and get away with that one? Murder, stealing, bearing false witness, coveting, etc...are those things fine? That is why you think I'm SDA, because of the Sabbath thing....I don't know what they believe in total, because I've never been to an SDA service/whatever.

I was listening to a well known pastor preaching the other day and he said, "We need to observe the Sabbath". He is Baptist and he actually believes that he is observing the Sabbath by going to church on Sunday....so there are others who believe it is required, and don't even know when the day is. This is the kind of deception that smacks of the evil one.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Quite the contrary. There are different laws and different covenants that were made at different times with different people(s). The particular verse I quoted may not definitely say that the 10Cs were around, but there were commandments, laws, statutes, etc. Some of those could have been included in the Mosaic law, some of them not, but Abraham was not under Mosaic law because Moses hadn't even been born.

A covenant was being made with the Hebrews in Deut and the law of that covenant being given. That was the 10Cs, circumcision, plus a lot of other stuff which is what is typically called Mosaic Law. I'm only concerned about the 10Cs, not the rest of the law although it isn't bad law.

Abraham was definitely not under the Mosaic law, his covenant with the Creator was different. The Creator spoke directly to Abraham, we don't know everything that they talked about. He didn't need to write the 10Cs on a stone tablet for Abraham, but He needed to for the people of Moses' time, they built an idol to worship before Moses got down off the mountain. The Creator didn't leave the writing of those to Moses, HE wrote them with his own finger....TWICE.

The 10Cs were so important that the Creator spoke them aloud to the Hebrews. Deuteronomy 4:36 36 Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire. Deut 5:22 These words the Lord spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

This is really about the Sabbath, I think. That can be the only real push back, because the other 9 make perfect sense to most folks. Who is going to say that the other 9 are null and void. Who thinks that you can worship idols and get away with that one? Murder, stealing, bearing false witness, coveting, etc...are those things fine? That is why you think I'm SDA, because of the Sabbath thing....I don't know what they believe in total, because I've never been to an SDA service/whatever.

I was listening to a well known pastor preaching the other day and he said, "We need to observe the Sabbath". He is Baptist and he actually believes that he is observing the Sabbath by going to church on Sunday....so there are others who believe it is required, and don't even know when the day is. This is the kind of deception that smacks of the evil one.

You really need to study what the Sabbath Day is a lot more. I think you will find almost all of the pro grace crowd here agree that 9 of the 10 commandments are "good" for Christians as Jesus himself reiterated them personally in the New Testament for us. It isn't as much about the 10 commandments that we have the SDA folks here but almost ALL about the Sabbath for them and about works based righteousness. Too often even pastors get drawn into "doing" things to "feel right" with God and then turn around and equate that on a level of righteousness proclaiming it is a "law" and everyone must do this thing and when they feel that way they try and find verses in the Bible to back them up and either they find them or they study very diligently and discover there is no precedent for demanding compliance and then they have to decide if it is a personal thing or try and twist things to suit themselves. Once people start twisting things to suit themselves often that isn't enough to make them feel "right" they also have to convince others to follow in their twisted ways even to the point of demanding them to "do as they do" and most often this comes down to statements by their "group" that your salvation REQUIRES you to "do as we do". The SDA is one such group as their "prophetess" of whom they blindly believe in equates the Sabbath as mandatory for "Christians" and those who refuse to keep it are damned to hell etc.

We have no problem at all with a preacher who decides to keep a sort of Sabbath on Sunday.... or even a more proper one on Saturday until he starts to teach others to keep it and doesn't teach them that there is NO requirement or NEED for them to keep it as far as being a "good" Christian whatsoever. It is when one deceptively leaves out information that you do NOT have to do something to be right with God and encourages everyone around them to "do it" and then condemns them for not doing it that I get my ire up and proclaim that these people aren't your "friends" in their pushing their beliefs upon you and others.

 

[Leroy D]

You really need to study what the Sabbath Day is a lot more.

This is why it is pointless to type something simple, because you get ragged on by people that think that is all you meant...it is pointless to be here. I know the Sabbath is a lot more than going to temple/church....duh. I didn't get off the boat yesterday.

You may have said something worthwhile, when I have the time to read it and think about it...I will.

 

[Sophrosyne]

This is why it is pointless to type something simple, because you get ragged on by people that think that is all you meant...it is pointless to be here. I know the Sabbath is a lot more than going to temple/church....duh. I didn't get off the boat yesterday.

You may have said something worthwhile, when I have the time to read it and think about it...I will.

If I get people to think instead of blindly trusting others here as to what they post (say) then I've done all I can hope for.

 

[Leroy D]

It is when one deceptively leaves out information that you do NOT have to do something to be right with God and encourages everyone around them to "do it" and then condemns them for not doing it that I get my ire up and proclaim that these people aren't your "friends" in their pushing their beliefs upon you and others.

Would you kindly reword this so I can actually understand what it means....I guess I'm to dense to figure it out the way it is written.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Would you kindly reword this so I can actually understand what it means....I guess I'm to dense to figure it out the way it is written.

The fact is the Sabbath Day was given ONLY to Israel and the fact that to be "part of Israel" one had to become fully a Jew which starts at circumcision and that the Sabbath Day is not mentioned as important to Christianity at all... is NOT commanded of Gentiles AT ALL in any way, form, or fashion. These facts are left out by those who promote Sabbath Keeping and in place of the facts there is no choice given with emphasis that you are fine to keep or not keep the Sabbath instead you get condemnation. A friend will want you to decide for yourself and give you all the facts, while someone who purposely doesn't want you to know the facts and pressures you in ways that are deceptive isn't a friend at all. You can read the arguments long enough and either you are pro Sabbath and see through their "glasses" or you are pro grace and don't or are neutral and need to watch how facts are presented and how the debate goes and the arguments made. You will see debate tricks used to avoid points made instead of refuting them.

 

[Leroy D]

.

 

[Dkh587]

The fact is the Sabbath Day was given ONLY to Israel and the fact that to be "part of Israel" one had to become fully a Jew which starts at circumcision and that the Sabbath Day is not mentioned as important to Christianity at all... is NOT commanded of Gentiles AT ALL in any way, form, or fashion. These facts are left out by those who promote Sabbath Keeping and in place of the facts there is no choice given with emphasis that you are fine to keep or not keep the Sabbath instead you get condemnation. A friend will want you to decide for yourself and give you all the facts, while someone who purposely doesn't want you to know the facts and pressures you in ways that are deceptive isn't a friend at all. You can read the arguments long enough and either you are pro Sabbath and see through their "glasses" or you are pro grace and don't or are neutral and need to watch how facts are presented and how the debate goes and the arguments made. You will see debate tricks used to avoid points made instead of refuting them.

You have no scriptural evidence to back up any of these erroneous and lawless claims. The New Testament fully supports keeping the Sabbath

The New Testament, which includes all of Paul's epistles, teaches keeping the Sabbath 100%

It's only when one takes Paul's epistles out of context that one could think the 4th COMMANDMENT to keep the Sabbath is not for followers of Christ

Peter warned that people would like you would twist and distort Paul's epistles to their destruction

Btw, all of the commandments were given to Israel. So, if we use your horrible logic, none of the commandments matter, therefore making it permissible to have sex with animals and perform child sacrifices, as these commandments were only given to Israel.

 

[Sophrosyne]

You have no scriptural evidence to back up any of these erroneous and lawless claims. The New Testament fully supports keeping the Sabbath

The New Testament, which includes all of Paul's epistles, teaches keeping the Sabbath 100%

It's only when one takes Paul's epistles out of context that one could think the 4th COMMANDMENT to keep the Sabbath is not for followers of Christ

Peter warned that people would like you would twist and distort Paul's epistles to their destruction

Btw, all of the commandments were given to Israel. So, if we use your horrible logic, none of the commandments matter, therefore making it permissible to have sex with animals and perform child sacrifices, as these commandments were only given to Israel.

LOL, how can I prove there is no scripture to prove that the Sabbath wasn't commanded in the New Testament by anyone without quoting the ENTIRE NEW TESTAMENT in posts one after another and have you READ them all and find... no such rule exists?
The onus is upon Sabbath promoters to prove the Sabbath is binding on anyone but Jews who were already under the Law of Moses. ALL scripture that has been used to attempt such proof only infer keeping of the Law OR are scripture from the Old Testament and a very very lame attempt at insisting foreigners who bind themselves to Israel (become Jews) are still not Jews (Gentiles) to try and insist Gentiles (who are not Jews or bound to Israel through circumcision) have to keep the Sabbath.
Paul NEVER teaches Sabbath keeping.... show me the verses I've seen claim after claim here of such utter nonsense with a hack job of his writings that still prove NOTHING.

 

[Dkh587]

LOL, how can I prove there is no scripture to prove that the Sabbath wasn't commanded in the New Testament by anyone without quoting the ENTIRE NEW TESTAMENT in posts one after another and have you READ them all and find... no such rule exists?
The onus is upon Sabbath promoters to prove the Sabbath is binding on anyone but Jews who were already under the Law of Moses. ALL scripture that has been used to attempt such proof only infer keeping of the Law OR are scripture from the Old Testament and a very very lame attempt at insisting foreigners who bind themselves to Israel (become Jews) are still not Jews (Gentiles) to try and insist Gentiles (who are not Jews or bound to Israel through circumcision) have to keep the Sabbath.
Paul NEVER teaches Sabbath keeping.... show me the verses I've seen claim after claim here of such utter nonsense with a hack job of his writings that still prove NOTHING.

Just like I said, you have absolutely no scriptural evidence from the entire New Testament that believers aren't supposed to keep the Sabbath

The only thing you'll post is scriptures from Paul, OUT OF CONTEXT like most believers do

The Old and New Testament; which includes ALL of Paul's letters support keeping the Torah, which part of is the sabbath

God wrote the 4th command to keep the Sabbath in stone. If Paul or any teacher of Torah ever said that the Sabbath is not supposed to Be kept, then that makes them a false teacher

You, by your own distortion of scripture, are accusing Paul of being a false teacher

Paul was actually falsely accused of teaching against the Torah in the book of Acts. Funny how people like you are making the same false claims 2000
Years later!

 

[Sophrosyne]

Just like I said, you have absolutely no scriptural evidence from the entire New Testament that believers aren't supposed to keep the Sabbath

The only thing you'll post is scriptures from Paul, OUT OF CONTEXT like most believers do

The Old and New Testament; which includes ALL of Paul's letters support keeping the Torah, which part of is the sabbath

God wrote the 4th command to keep the Sabbath in stone. If Paul or any teacher of Torah ever said that the Sabbath is not supposed to Be kept, then that makes them a false teacher

You, by your own distortion of scripture, are accusing Paul of being a false teacher

Paul was actually falsely accused of teaching against the Torah in the book of Acts. Funny how people like you are making the same false claims 2000
Years later!

Actually I do have evidence that the Sabbath is VOLUNTARY from Paul... no evidence that it is MANDATORY.... NONE.
It is up to you to prove that something specifically given to Israel ONLY is to be "given" to NON Israel
To put it bluntly it is up to you to prove that we are to keep the Sabbath with it in mind that demanding the Sabbath ties into the WHOLE Law.... not just the 10 commandments.

 

[bugkiller]

Quite the contrary. There are different laws and different covenants that were made at different times with different people(s). The particular verse I quoted may not definitely say that the 10Cs were around, but there were commandments, laws, statutes, etc. Some of those could have been included in the Mosaic law, some of them not, but Abraham was not under Mosaic law because Moses hadn't even been born.

A covenant was being made with the Hebrews in Deut and the law of that covenant being given. That was the 10Cs, circumcision, plus a lot of other stuff which is what is typically called Mosaic Law. I'm only concerned about the 10Cs, not the rest of the law although it isn't bad law.

Abraham was definitely not under the Mosaic law, his covenant with the Creator was different. The Creator spoke directly to Abraham, we don't know everything that they talked about. He didn't need to write the 10Cs on a stone tablet for Abraham, but He needed to for the people of Moses' time, they built an idol to worship before Moses got down off the mountain. The Creator didn't leave the writing of those to Moses, HE wrote them with his own finger....TWICE.

The 10Cs were so important that the Creator spoke them aloud to the Hebrews. Deuteronomy 4:36 36 Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire. Deut 5:22 These words the Lord spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

This is really about the Sabbath, I think. That can be the only real push back, because the other 9 make perfect sense to most folks. Who is going to say that the other 9 are null and void. Who thinks that you can worship idols and get away with that one? Murder, stealing, bearing false witness, coveting, etc...are those things fine? That is why you think I'm SDA, because of the Sabbath thing....I don't know what they believe in total, because I've never been to an SDA service/whatever.

I was listening to a well known pastor preaching the other day and he said, "We need to observe the Sabbath". He is Baptist and he actually believes that he is observing the Sabbath by going to church on Sunday....so there are others who believe it is required, and don't even know when the day is. This is the kind of deception that smacks of the evil one.

You're simply amazing.

73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee. Do you not know the same thing still works today?

I would like to know why you're appealing to law in a general fashion when that isn't the subject of this forum. It must be obvious to others as well that you can't make/prove your point with the law (specifically the 10 Cs). You need some general vague term to confuse the issue. Better luck next time.

As Christians here, who is worshipping an idol?

So you don't understand what that pastor was doing, rather refuse to admit that well known pastor is careless or ignorant in his use of the word Sabbath. There's a thread in GT about fear in which I made a post.

Any Christian who has studied the Bible for themselves will tell you those other nine also don't apply to Christians. Before you try and force something that is untrue, let me ask how one can violate those other nine while loving themselves and others? We simply don't promote sin which existed before and without the law (law of Moses for you).

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

This is why it is pointless to type something simple, because you get ragged on by people that think that is all you meant...it is pointless to be here. I know the Sabbath is a lot more than going to temple/church....duh. I didn't get off the boat yesterday.

You may have said something worthwhile, when I have the time to read it and think about it...I will.

Don't rightly know what boat you got off but you're trying to get others on the wrong boat.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

If I get people to think instead of blindly trusting others here as to what they post (say) then I've done all I can hope for.

ditto for me.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

The fact is the Sabbath Day was given ONLY to Israel and the fact that to be "part of Israel" one had to become fully a Jew which starts at circumcision and that the Sabbath Day is not mentioned as important to Christianity at all... is NOT commanded of Gentiles AT ALL in any way, form, or fashion. These facts are left out by those who promote Sabbath Keeping and in place of the facts there is no choice given with emphasis that you are fine to keep or not keep the Sabbath instead you get condemnation. A friend will want you to decide for yourself and give you all the facts, while someone who purposely doesn't want you to know the facts and pressures you in ways that are deceptive isn't a friend at all. You can read the arguments long enough and either you are pro Sabbath and see through their "glasses" or you are pro grace and don't or are neutral and need to watch how facts are presented and how the debate goes and the arguments made. You will see debate tricks used to avoid points made instead of refuting them.

Its called incremental deception.

bugkiller