The 10 Commandments are done away!

[Leroy D]

guys the 10 commands were apart of 618 commands that were only giving to Israel.Gentiles were not under the law. Act 15:5

For my edification, does this mean that the gentiles all went to heaven, because they could not sin if there was no law?

 

[SayaOtonashi]

No they did not all go to Heaven. there is still sin. They were not judged on Moses laws. Roman 2:12-16.

 

[Leroy D]

...we have most of Christianity blindly believing that they are a standard for us out of ignorance even defending against the removal of them from public places as an attack on Christians.

WHAT main stream Christian faith believes Sabbath keeping other than SDAs and a a few other people like me? To believe what Christ said, you MUST believe in at least 9, because they love the Creator and your fellow man. Post #410 is so real, why can't you understand he didn't destroy the 10Cs, but explained that the real purpose is to be even more strict, even more moral, even more "legal", even more GOD like. We should strive to be like Him. HE is the way the truth and the life. You seem to want to destroy what God wrote (why?), and Jesus is expounding on what His Father wrote with his OWN finger, not destroying it. He is saying....do more, do better, go above and beyond, follow me into eternity.

 

[Leroy D]

No they did not all go to Heaven. there is still sin. They were not judged on Moses laws. Roman 2:12-16.

The what laws where they subject too? If they did not know there was a law to follow, how can they be condemned?

 

[Leroy D]

No they did not all go to Heaven. there is still sin. They were not judged on Moses laws. Roman 2:12-16.

I appreciate you so much....thank you.

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness....

The law is known to ALL, or should be. The 10Cs don't include things just given to the Hebrews. Like...circumcision, like not eating unclean things, etc. The law of Liberty, the 10Cs, were known to all that knew the Creator.

The gentiles were not held to the MOSAIC law, of course they were NOT. It was only for the Hebrew people. The 10Cs, were the perfect law, everyone should be able to see that from these versus. It was written in their hearts (some gentiles)....as God said he would do, before he said he would do it.

 

[Leroy D]

.

 

[Sophrosyne]

WHAT main stream Christian faith believes Sabbath keeping other than SDAs and a a few other people like me? To believe what Christ said, you MUST believe in at least 9, because they love the Creator and your fellow man. Post #410 is so real, why can't you understand he didn't destroy the 10Cs, but explained that the real purpose is to be even more strict, even more moral, even more "legal", even more GOD like. We should strive to be like Him. HE is the way the truth and the life. You seem to want to destroy what God wrote (why?), and Jesus is expounding on what His Father wrote with his OWN finger, not destroying it. He is saying....do more, do better, go above and beyond, follow me into eternity.

First off I don't really think Sabbath keeping is "mainstream". Secondly I don't buy the argument "do as Jesus did" because those who parrot the idea don't do as he did but rather use it to do a few things that he did while ignoring things that they find too difficult or that is against their agenda to promote using him as advertisement. I don't believe Jesus came to destroy the 10 commandments at all, I've never said that but I do believe that the purpose they now serve is for those who choose not to rely on faith in Jesus so they can have things that they can or cannot do. The "written with God's finger bit is front and center expression used entirely by SDA's here as far as I have seen but they conclude it was Jesus finger. If you consider it wasn't Jesus finger then you should try and decide what the bible meant when it said this:
John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Now if these two persons are not the same person then truly then there must be two differing sets of commandments. I ask you which commandments are included in each two sets if you think they differ.

 

[Leroy D]

First off I don't really think Sabbath keeping is "mainstream". Secondly I don't buy the argument "do as Jesus did" because those who parrot the idea don't do as he did but rather use it to do a few things that he did while ignoring things that they find too difficult or that is against their agenda to promote using him as advertisement. I don't believe Jesus came to destroy the 10 commandments at all, I've never said that but I do believe that the purpose they now serve is for those who choose not to rely on faith in Jesus so they can have things that they can or cannot do. The "written with God's finger bit is front and center expression used entirely by SDA's here as far as I have seen but they conclude it was Jesus finger. If you consider it wasn't Jesus finger then you should try and decide what the bible meant when it said this:
John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Now if these two persons are not the same person then truly then there must be two differing sets of commandments. I ask you which commandments are included in each two sets if you think they differ.

Now, that is golden....that is worth consideration and pondering.

 

[Leroy D]

First off I don't really think Sabbath keeping is "mainstream". Secondly I don't buy the argument "do as Jesus did" because those who parrot the idea don't do as he did but rather use it to do a few things that he did while ignoring things that they find too difficult or that is against their agenda to promote using him as advertisement. I don't believe Jesus came to destroy the 10 commandments at all, I've never said that but I do believe that the purpose they now serve is for those who choose not to rely on faith in Jesus so they can have things that they can or cannot do. The "written with God's finger bit is front and center expression used entirely by SDA's here as far as I have seen but they conclude it was Jesus finger. If you consider it wasn't Jesus finger then you should try and decide what the bible meant when it said this:
John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Now if these two persons are not the same person then truly then there must be two differing sets of commandments. I ask you which commandments are included in each two sets if you think they differ.

I think the whole point is that Sabbath keeping is NOT mainstream.
I should probably think on this more, as this is a good thing to think upon. If the Father and the Son are ONE, then they can not be against each other, they must be simpatico. The must think alike, act alike, be alike. They must want the same thing, they cannot be against each other, because a house divided can not stand. The Son can explain what the Father says, because they are one and they know our understanding of the Father is so misunderstood that we need the Son to understand what the Father has said.

 

[Leroy D]

I think the whole point is that Sabbath keeping is NOT mainstream. I 100% guarantee that I am NOT a SDA.
I should probably think on this more, as this is a good thing to think upon. If the Father and the Son are ONE, then they can not be against each other, they must be simpatico. The must think alike, act alike, be alike. They must want the same thing, they cannot be against each other, because a house divided can not stand. The Son can explain what the Father says, because they are one and they know our understanding of the Father is so misunderstood that we need the Son to understand what the Father has said.

Should have edited, sorry. The point I was trying to make was, "I 100% guarantee that I am NOT a SDA".

 

[Sophrosyne]

I think the whole point is that Sabbath keeping is NOT mainstream.
I should probably think on this more, as this is a good thing to think upon. If the Father and the Son are ONE, then they can not be against each other, they must be simpatico. The must think alike, act alike, be alike. They must want the same thing, they cannot be against each other, because a house divided can not stand. The Son can explain what the Father says, because they are one and they know our understanding of the Father is so misunderstood that we need the Son to understand what the Father has said.

The scripture the Father and Son are ONE doesn't mean they are the SAME just as the scripture where Jesus says if you have seen me you have seen the Father. The fact is Jesus and the Father are different and thus there are 2 sets of different commands not because they agree or disagree but because until Jesus came all of "God's People" were under the Father's commandments given through Moses. At the cross those commandments were fulfilled and instead of going through priests to get to the Father Jesus is our way and Jesus rules/commandments apply. If you want to use the 10 commandments then you are trying to go to the Father NOT through Jesus thus his commandments are IGNORED for the Fathers.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Should have edited, sorry. The point I was trying to make was, "I 100% guarantee that I am NOT a SDA".

I didn't say you were, but I see influence of their thinking and doctrine in your writing, and see some of the same arguments and thinking that they use to convince people that their theology is right. I can see from some of your posts that you could buy into their arguments the more you desire to be "right" because they do put up a good facade.

 

[Leroy D]

The scripture the Father and Son are ONE doesn't mean they are the SAME just as the scripture where Jesus says if you have seen me you have seen the Father. The fact is Jesus and the Father are different and thus there are 2 sets of different commands not because they agree or disagree but because until Jesus came all were under the Father's commandments given through Moses. At the cross those commandments were fulfilled and instead of going through priests to get to the Father Jesus is our way and Jesus rules/commandments apply. If you want to use the 10 commandments then you are trying to go to the Father NOT through Jesus thus his commandments are IGNORED for the Fathers.

At the cross, the "law" was fulfilled, I "think" you can agree with me on that? I am not trying to use the 10 Cs. to go to the Father, because Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. The Son would NOT nullify what his Father had done, he would exemplify, he would fulfill, he would SHOW the way. Now, his commandment was heavier than the Father's because he explained it more than the Father did. His commandment required you love me even when you hate me...as you rightly do (in the physical) because I disagree with you. But, we are in the same camp, you just don't see that yet.

 

[Tree of Life]

Unfortunately those words don't appear in the text.

bugkiller

Most of them do. The rest of them may as well. It's what Jesus means.

 

[Leroy D]

I didn't say you were, but I see influence of their thinking and doctrine in your writing, and see some of the same arguments and thinking that they use to convince people that their theology is right. I can see from some of your posts that you could buy into their arguments the more you desire to be "right" because they do put up a good facade.

Nice. My "doctrine" is from my understanding, not from the SDAs. I can only be logical and know that the bible is not confusing and does not contradict. Maybe the logic is wrong, that is what needs to be determined, but if there is ANY contradiction, then there is doubt. Any discourse on the Zechariah verses?

 

[Leroy D]

Most of them do. The rest of them may as well. It's what Jesus means.

To whom do you reply?

 

[Bob S]

So you don't believe in sabbath worship.

I do not believe Christians are called to keep the covenant given only to Israel. That covenant was broken by the Israelites many many times until God in the form of Jesus came and rescued mankind from the curse. He ushered in a new and better covenant. We Christians are certainly blessed with Jesus covenant to all mankind. By the way, some Methodists are just as confused as the 7th day people are. We had a retired pastor that would not buy on Sunday. Of course that is a tradition and not scriptural.

 

[Bob S]

Probably should post no more, but I love you guys too much!

Keep posting Leroy, we learn from each other and it is a great way to keep the brain active.

I believe in the new convenant, just not that ALL of the law is gone, or bad.

I don't believe any of the Torah was bad. And I don't believe all the laws found in the old covenant have been negated. None of the laws pertaining to morality are gone. They are part of a greater law, the law of love 1Jn3:19-24

This, for instance, is what Zechariah says will happen after Jesus has returned:

Zechariah 14:
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Zechariah cannot be referring to eternity. Think about it Leroy, there will not be any plagues, heathens or smiting. We probably will all be of one nation. Those verses are similar to Isaiah's thoughts on what we will be doing on Sabbath, walking around dead bodies that are being eaten by worms and his thoughts in chapter 65 where a man will live to be over 100. All that was written for some reason, but it smacks in the face of what we know eternity will be like. We will live forever in bliss, not walking among dead bodies.

Even after Jesus comes back, the feast of tabernacles will be required. Not just of the "Jews", but of everyone. Seems a strange thing if all of "that" law is gone.

I sure wouldn't hang my hat on those verses.

 

[Leroy D]

Keep posting Leroy, we learn from each other and it is a great way to keep the brain active.
I don't believe any of the Torah was bad. And I don't believe all the laws found in the old covenant have been negated. None of the laws pertaining to morality are gone. They are part of a greater law, the law of love 1Jn3:19-24[/QUOTE}]
Wow Bob, wonderful to hear from you again, and I'm the most surprised I have ever been since getting into this throwdown/discussion.

Zechariah cannot be referring to eternity. Think about it Leroy, there will not be any plagues, heathens or smiting. We probably will all be of one nation. Those verses are similar to Isaiah's thoughts on what we will be doing on Sabbath, walking around dead bodies that are being eaten by worms and his thoughts in chapter 65 where a man will live to be over 100. All that was written for some reason, but it smacks in the face of what we know eternity will be like. We will live forever in bliss, not walking among dead bodies.
[/QUOTE}]

The 1000 year reign, is not eternity. There is a 1000 year reign, then we will have eternity/"perfection". It is the time when we have the ability to repent, the time of perfection and the lion laying with the lamb is after that. Everyone will still have a choice in the 1000 year reign as we do today, and many will chose the evil way....it is so sad, that we are so egotistical.

I sure wouldn't hang my hat on those verses.

Please tell me what Zechariah was saying, maybe I misunderstand. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

 

[Leroy D]

It screwed up my response, or I'm just a dufus (inviting supporters of the dufus part).

Keep posting Leroy, we learn from each other and it is a great way to keep the brain active.
I don't believe any of the Torah was bad. And I don't believe all the laws found in the old covenant have been negated. None of the laws pertaining to morality are gone. They are part of a greater law, the law of love 1Jn3:19-24[/QUOTE}]
Wow Bob, wonderful to hear from you again, and I'm the most surprised I have ever been since getting into this throwdown/discussion. You and I, although we seem to have been at opposite side of the chess board are now on the same side. Where in the world are we different?

Zechariah cannot be referring to eternity. Think about it Leroy, there will not be any plagues, heathens or smiting. We probably will all be of one nation. Those verses are similar to Isaiah's thoughts on what we will be doing on Sabbath, walking around dead bodies that are being eaten by worms and his thoughts in chapter 65 where a man will live to be over 100. All that was written for some reason, but it smacks in the face of what we know eternity will be like. We will live forever in bliss, not walking among dead bodies.
[/QUOTE}]

The 1000 year reign, is not eternity. There is a 1000 year reign, then we will have eternity/"perfection". It is the time when we have the ability to repent, the time of perfection and the lion laying with the lamb is after that. Everyone will still have a choice in the 1000 year reign as we do today, and many will chose the evil way....it is so sad, that we are so egotistical.

I sure wouldn't hang my hat on those verses.

Please tell me what Zechariah was saying, maybe I misunderstand. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer.