No, I have absolutely no conflict. And neither do the rest of the world's Hebrew Catholics.
One lesson is that the entire community of Israel stands as "one man" and would be held accountable until the individual who actually sinned was identified, judged and his sentence carried out. This is similar to the NT teaching that all believers comprise one Body. When one suffers, we all suffer. When one is honored, we all rejoice. This is why we cannot allow a little leaven to corrupt the entire community of believers. Just as Achan had to be removed from Israel, false teachers, false prophets and willful sinners have to be removed from the Body of believers. Sadly, that did not always happen and false doctrines and sin have crept into the Body.
You did not read my last post carefully. I said several things:
We are obligated to obey God. If someone asks us to do something immoral, we are to obey God rather than man. But that's where it ends. If someone in authority asks us to do something stupid or unreasonable, we are to do it. I do feel fortunate to live in a democracy, where I play a part in deciding who is in authority.
Yes, exactly, danny! The example of Achan is boggling to the American mind -- we simply don't have a box to put it in. We even think it is "unfair." It really lets us know that we've forsaken the importance of community that is God's ideal.
Could it be that God didn't see Achan as an individual, but as a part of a community?
I get along fine wherever I am. The problem comes when those around me find out what I believe. When they find out it differs from them, they can't handle it and start accusing me of all manner of evil. As for that pastor, I did not go to him to correct him, but to find out why they were serving abominations at an MJ service. I had no idea what he believed. I tried to have a mutual discussion, but he wanted no discussion. So he kicked my entire family out. That is not of God.
Yeshua bucked the religious establishment. He knew the difference between right and wrong and rebuked and corrected them when necessary. He tried to get along, but the leaders would not have it. Was Yeshua corrupted? No. He was exposing and correcting corruption. He lives in me. Therefore, I walk in the same Spirit and hopefully have the same mind as he. I will buck a corrupted religious establishment if I have to. I will not conform to corruption.
For the most part. I keep Torah more strictly than they. They will eat stuff without a kosher symbol even if it has questionable ingredients. They will do things on Shabbat that I won't. Thankfully, they have become more observant over the years. I have no problem giving brethren room to learn and grow. My problem is with people who try to impose their corrupted ways on me.
Yes, He saw him as part of the community, but He was teaching the community to be their brother's keeper and to understand how much He is repulsed by sin in the camp in which He walks. Once the sinner was exposed, he was dealt with as an individual and removed from the community.
No, we didn't discuss this. And I'm not asking you to discuss your Catholic beliefs, I'm asking you to explain how an "observant Jew" can stop observing on Sunday morning.
If you want to do something stupid or unreasonable to please authority, you go right ahead.
OBEDIENCE IS A VIRTUE.
I don't
We are so on the same page. I agree 100%. God dealt with the community as a whole, and the community was expected to deal with the individual.
We can argue about this once you agree that you need to accept a community standard. One step at a time.
And you thought that maybe he didn't know or approve even though he was the pastor? Please. You were making waves. I just don't know if it was justified or not. Was he teaching that Yeshua wasn't God? Was he teaching that the crucifixion didn't atone? Was he saying adultery is okay? I mean there are very few things that are big enough issues that justify being called abominations. I'm just curious what these abominations were. Can you give me some context?
The community standard I accept is that of the Body of Messiah as revealed to us in Scripture. When those standards are set aside and new standards put in place, I have no obligation to obey them. To do so may cause me to sin.We can argue about this once you agree that you need to accept a community standard. One step at a time.
Of course he knew and approved. I was trying to find out on what grounds a believer was now permitted to eat abominations.
YHWH says we should consider aquatic creatures that don't have fins and scales as abominations to us (Leviticus 11:9-12). There was one dish that had pasta and shrimp. Other dishes had pork sausage. This is at a Messianic event were certain families only eat clean meat. The least they could have done was notify us that certain dishes were not clean by Torah standards. Several of us ate from those dishes, never suspecting that abominations would be served by a supposed Torah keeping congregation.
Because it is unfair. But, the Torah observance is not about fairness or equality or ... . Belonging or claiming membership in ANY community requires an individual to compromise. This is no different. I feel very strongly against some rabbinical rulings, yet I obey most of them because that's the price of the "membership". AND, I understand why they ruled as they did and I recognize their authority to do so. I'm not really sure why this would even be a subject for discussion. Christian denominations, too, have community rules and standards. Some are more relaxed than other, but still.... Anyway, here's the point. Anyone is free to disregard the "community standards", and in return, the community is free to disregard such individual. The proper term is to cut off(from the people).
Yeshua obeyed halakha. He was school of Hillel. God's law is always higher than man's. When God's will violated the will of the priests, then Jesus disobeyed. I thought I made that exception clear in my first post. We are talking about instances where authorities ask you to do things which are stupid and irritating and nonsensical.
