Sons of the Devil Believe in Jesus

[Instrument150]

In John 8 we encounter a group of Jews who were believing in Jesus...



Although they believe in Jesus, they do not appear to truly be his disciples. A corrective from Jesus is needed...



Jesus then goes on to say to these believers that they are slaves of sin (John 8:34), his word finds no place in them (John 8:37), that their father is the devil and not God (John 8:44), and that they do not believe in Jesus (John 8:45).

How is it possible to be both believing and unbelieving at the same time? How is it possible to be a believer in Jesus and yet a son of the devil, as John shows us?

I love this thank you. The biggest recent truth I've discovered is that judging your sin keeps you in sin. God gave the right to judge to Jesus, and Judge not lest thee be judge goes for yourself too. Can't take that right away. So be free from even yourself, and you already know what Jesus thinks about your sin.

Finished.

 

[Thedictator]

Oh his association is not of sonship, it's worse, he IS Satan!

Ok, there comes a time in some conversations were continuing becomes an exercise in madness, because one side with it zeal to win an argument will do or say anything including heresy. So this conversation needs to come to an end. You have a Good day my Friend.

 

[Thedictator]

I love this thank you. The biggest recent truth I've discovered is that judging your sin keeps you in sin. God gave the right to judge to Jesus, and Judge not lest thee be judge goes for yourself too. Can't take that right away. So be free from even yourself, and you already know what Jesus thinks about your sin.

Finished.

He is not talking about using the Bible to judge sin, we are to use the Word of God to judge sin. What we are not to do is use self-rightness judgement ( this is not the judgement that come from the Bible) an Example: that person is not fit to work here, they are lazy. or why did they get a promotion they did not deserve it. I here this all the time from people who say we should not judge. It is not talking about the judgement coming from the Bible.

 

[-V-]

A preposition must be supplied since it's in the dative. Which would you supply?

Take some Greek courses and call me back.

If it's supposed to be "in" Him, why is εις not in there, as in John 2:23 and John 3:16?

From Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament:

"Which had believed him" (τους πεπιστευκοτας αυτωι — tous pepisteukotas autōi). Articular perfect active participle of πιστευω — pisteuō with dative αυτωι — autōi (trusted him) rather than εις αυτον — eis auton (on him) in John 8:30. They believed him (cf. John 6:30) as to his claims to being the Messiah with their own interpretation (John 6:15), but they did not commit themselves to him and may represent only one element of those in John 8:30, but see John 2:23 for πιστευω εις — pisteuō eis there.

John 8:31 - So Jesus was saying... - Verse-by-Verse Commentary

There's also well-respected translations like the NIV, NASB, NET, and CSB, to name a few, that just say "believed Him", no "in". All the translators who worked on those texts... they didn't know Greek?

 

[disciple1]

In John 8 we encounter a group of Jews who were believing in Jesus...



Although they believe in Jesus, they do not appear to truly be his disciples. A corrective from Jesus is needed...



Jesus then goes on to say to these believers that they are slaves of sin (John 8:34), his word finds no place in them (John 8:37), that their father is the devil and not God (John 8:44), and that they do not believe in Jesus (John 8:45).

How is it possible to be both believing and unbelieving at the same time? How is it possible to be a believer in Jesus and yet a son of the devil, as John shows us?

1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers a great many sins.

Keep studying the bible, if you don't you may find Jesus calls you a son of the devil.


Study these verses, instead of harassing me with your little smiley faces.


Matthew chapter 4 verse 4
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
Romans chapter 1 verse 28
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

John chapter 8 verse 31,32
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, " If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
2 John
9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
Job chapter 23 verse 12
I have not departed from the commands of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread.

Matthew 11
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Luke chapter 21
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Romans chapter 10
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
Mark chapter 13
31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
James chapter 1
25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.
James chapter 4
8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Isaiah chapter 45 verse 19
I have not spoken in secret, from somewhere in a land of darkness; I have not said to Jacob's descendants, 'Seek me in vain.' I, the LORD, speak the truth; I declare what is right.
Jeremiah chapter 9
24 but let the one who boasts boast about this:
that they have the understanding to know me,
that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness,
justice and righteousness on earth,
for in these I delight,”
declares the Lord.
Jeremiah chapter 5 verse 1
5 “Go up and down the streets of Jerusalem,
look around and consider,
search through her squares.
If you can find but one person
who deals honestly and seeks the truth,
I will forgive this city.

 

[Instrument150]

He is not talking about using the Bible to judge sin, we are to use the Word of God to judge sin. What we are not to do is use self-rightness judgement ( this is not the judgement that come from the Bible) an Example: that person is not fit to work here, they are lazy. or why did they get a promotion they did not deserve it. I here this all the time from people who say we should not judge. It is not talking about the judgement coming from the Bible.

No you don't use the Bible to judge anything. Are you given the right? No, it is made very clear. You use the Bible to show the tempter that you mean business ... you ain't fooling around with him, as it were. This is what Jesus said, and did.

God gave Jesus right to judge.

He did this because He knew Jesus would choose, through God's Glory, to make the right decision and decide NOT to judge out of Love

 

[-V-]

No you don't use the Bible to judge anything. Are you given the right? No, it is made very clear. You use the Bible to show the tempter that you mean business ... you ain't fooling around with him, as it were. This is what Jesus said, and did.

God gave Jesus right to judge.

He did this because He knew Jesus would choose, through God's Glory, to make the right decision and decide NOT to judge out of Love

But Jesus talks about correcting others in Matthew 18:15-17 - "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault..." How do we do such a thing without judging sin?

 

[Instrument150]

But Jesus talks about correcting others in Matthew 18:15-17 - "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault..." How do we do such a thing without judging sin?

We ate of the tree, so the knowledge of it is already in us. We know what sin is. Speaking of its' existence does not have to involve judgement. Your avatar is scary

 

[Tree of Life]

If it's supposed to be "in" Him, why is εις not in there, as in John 2:23 and John 3:16?

From Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament:

John 8:31 - So Jesus was saying... - Verse-by-Verse Commentary

There's also well-respected translations like the NIV, NASB, NET, and CSB, to name a few, that just say "believed Him", no "in". All the translators who worked on those texts... they didn't know Greek?

Eis or en is simply unnecessary.

 

[Alithis]

In John 8 we encounter a group of Jews who were believing in Jesus...



Although they believe in Jesus, they do not appear to truly be his disciples. A corrective from Jesus is needed...



Jesus then goes on to say to these believers that they are slaves of sin (John 8:34), his word finds no place in them (John 8:37), that their father is the devil and not God (John 8:44), and that they do not believe in Jesus (John 8:45).

How is it possible to be both believing and unbelieving at the same time? How is it possible to be a believer in Jesus and yet a son of the devil, as John shows us?

True belief is made evident by obedience of love
Belief alone has NEVER saved.
So many think they can say they believe and ask forgiveness and be saved.
But without repentance there is no forgiveness of sin .

 

[-V-]

Eis or en is simply unnecessary.

So, all those professional scholars are wrong, and we should take your word instead because... why?

 

[Tree of Life]

So, all those professional scholars are wrong, and we should take your word instead because... why?

Just go with the majority opinion in scholarship. No need to take my word.

 

[-V-]

Just go with the majority opinion in scholarship. No need to take my word.

And where can I find the info that your rendering is the majority opinion?

 

[Tree of Life]

And where can I find the info that your rendering is the majority opinion?

The major commentaries.

 

[Tree of Life]

And why call it my rendering? Call it the ESV's rendering.

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

In John 8 we encounter a group of Jews who were believing in Jesus...



Although they believe in Jesus, they do not appear to truly be his disciples. A corrective from Jesus is needed...



Jesus then goes on to say to these believers that they are slaves of sin (John 8:34), his word finds no place in them (John 8:37), that their father is the devil and not God (John 8:44), and that they do not believe in Jesus (John 8:45).

How is it possible to be both believing and unbelieving at the same time? How is it possible to be a believer in Jesus and yet a son of the devil, as John shows us?

In context, you are taking two entirely different groups and mashing them together, as though it was not obvious that there were two entirely different groups there.

This is not even in anyway a challenging reading and observation exercise, the text makes it very plain that Jesus was talking to both his believers, who were with him, and severe, unfair critics.

I can not imagine how anyone could ever get confused on this, but, I have seen otherwise intelligent people (like Sagan and Dawkins) come up with the stupidest, most dishonest reading of Scripture. And plenty of others who simply take some verses, misquote them, making them into what they want to say, and just passing that on, trusting no one will even try to read the material in context.

Problem with the Gospels and criticism, is a person deeply has to be ignorant and or dishonest to come away with *anything*, because what Jesus taught, said, and did, is so virtuousness. You literally have to take a stand for religious hypocrisy, for political hypocrisy, against non-judgmentalness, against love, and so on, to be critical of Jesus.

Reality is critics and cults alike do the same thing here, twisting out these words to create someone entirely different, and have the exact opposite be said.

 

[Hank77]

Not really. You can believe someone with out believing in them. Like the demon example. They believe Jesus, but they don't believe IN Jesus.

Could we say that the demons know exactly who Jesus is but they don't love Him.

Jesus said to these Jews,
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word.

Along with loving someone comes a desire to please them.

 

[-V-]

The major commentaries.

What are the "major commentaries"?

And why call it my rendering? Call it the ESV's rendering.

I called it "yours" simply because you're the one arguing for it here. Was I supposed to just psychically know you use the ESV?

 

[-V-]

Could we say that the demons know exactly who Jesus is but they don't love Him.

I'm sure one could say that. But the topic here is the specific language used in the Biblical text of John 8 - whether or not one could say the people believed Jesus but didn't believe in Jesus.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The subject of John 8 setting free thru the Word, so what was the lesson in the woman in adultery? who learnt the lesson? What or who was set free? I'll leave you guys to that lol