1John 3:4-6

[fli]

1 John 3:4-6 does not prove that we are under the law.

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. NKJV


Verse 6 John states whoever sins has neither seen Him nor Known Him. John was writing to those somewhere in Turkey 40 to 50 years after Jesus died. It is unlikely that anyone in that place had seen Jesus except John. How could seeing Jesus apply to them or us?

John 17:24 "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. NKJV


John 10:14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. NKJV


John 17: 24 Those the Father gave to Jesus have seen Him in His glory. John 10: 14 His sheep, the elect, have seen Him and they Know Him. Therefore, the elect does not sin while in Him. If anyone, in Jesus, violates the law they are not of the elect.


That means in 1John3: 6b John is describing a non-elect person. Therefore. 1John 3:4-6 is referring to what eventually happens to a non-elect in Jesus.


1 John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. NKJV


If a Christian sees his brother sinning a sin not leading to death offers intercessory prayer God will give the sinner life. People cannot be prayed into Jesus, they have to come in on their own. Therefore, John is talking about a Christian under discipline. If a non elect loses salvation they cannot be prayed back into salvation. That is the sin leading to death, eternal death. They no longer believe in Jesus.



John 16:8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;

NKJV



Those who do not believe in Jesus are committing lawlessness.

 

[Dan Perez]

1 John 3:4-6 does not prove that we are under the law.

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. NKJV


Verse 6 John states whoever sins has neither seen Him nor Known Him. John was writing to those somewhere in Turkey 40 to 50 years after Jesus died. It is unlikely that anyone in that place had seen Jesus except John. How could seeing Jesus apply to them or us?

John 17:24 "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. NKJV


John 10:14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. NKJV


John 17: 24 Those the Father gave to Jesus have seen Him in His glory. John 10: 14 His sheep, the elect, have seen Him and they Know Him. Therefore, the elect does not sin while in Him. If anyone, in Jesus, violates the law they are not of the elect.


That means in 1John3: 6b John is describing a non-elect person. Therefore. 1John 3:4-6 is referring to what eventually happens to a non-elect in Jesus.


1 John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. NKJV


If a Christian sees his brother sinning a sin not leading to death offers intercessory prayer God will give the sinner life. People cannot be prayed into Jesus, they have to come in on their own. Therefore, John is talking about a Christian under discipline. If a non elect loses salvation they cannot be prayed back into salvation. That is the sin leading to death, eternal death. They no longer believe in Jesus.



John 16:8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;

NKJV



Those who do not believe in Jesus are committing lawlessness.

In 1 John 5:18 is written , that WHOSOEVER , IS BORN ( ( does this means Jews and Gentiles )) SINNETH // HAMARTANO , is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , and in the INDICATIVE MOOD , in the SINGULAR .


Sinneth , NOT // OU is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE and these Greek word means that you will NEVER sin again ?

Your thoughts on this verse ?

dan p

 

[fli]

Hello Mr Dan Perez

You know a lot more about Greek and grammar that I do.

As to 1John 5: 18 it is true that those born of God will never sin again. If I ever claimed that I have not sinned, I would be a liar.

I do not like having lost one of my posts. So long and God bless.

 

[Dan Perez]

Hello Mr Dan Perez

You know a lot more about Greek and grammar that I do.

As to 1John 5: 18 it is true that those born of God will never sin again. If I ever claimed that I have not sinned, I would be a liar.

I do not like having lost one of my posts. So long and God bless.

And I use BLUE LETTER BIBLE and you can too , so do not give up and EVEN Greek scholar , make mistakes !!

dan p

 

[fli]

Thank you.

I found my post again. They moved it and didn't tell me where to look for it.
I don't have a blue letter bible in my computer course. I don't know if blue letters would even show up on a computer. I'll just stick with what I have.

 

[fli]

And I use BLUE LETTER BIBLE and you can too , so do not give up and EVEN Greek scholar , make mistakes !!

dan p

In my computer course I did a global concordance search on the phrase “born of God”. A global concordance search is a search through all the different versions that I have in the program. In the entire Bible only John uses that phrase and then, most of the time, he uses it in the epistle 1John. In a couple of versions, it is also translated in the Gospel of John. Those times it in John 1: 13 and rarely in John 8: 42.

John 1:12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. TNIV

John 8:42 If I am speaking the truth, why is it that you do not believe me? The man who is born of God can hear these words of God and the reason why you cannot hear the words of God is simply this, that you are not the sons of God." PHILLIPS


I believe that when John uses that phrase he is referring to (John 1:12) those who exercised the right to become a child of God. Not everyone born of the Spirit makes it to be a child (son) of God.

In 1 John the phrase “born of God” is used in 3:9, 4:7, 5:1, 5:4 and 5:18. I will try to explain each case with supporting scriptures.

1 John 3:9. Anyone born of God does not sin. He cannot sin because the Spirit of Jesus remains in Him.

Romans 4:5-8 as long as the person believes in Jesus for salvation, his faith is his good work(s) for righteousness. As long as the person has faith in Jesus the Spirit of Jesus remains in Him. As long as the Spirit remains in him he cannot sin because God will not impute sin to a person in Jesus. Romans 8:31-35 He cannot sin because he is of the elect. In chapter 8 verse 35 of Romans nakedness cannot separate us from the love of Jesus. Nakedness means we have no works which means we did not exercise our faith. 2Timothy 2:13 even if we are faithless, He does not deny us.

1 John 4:7 Everyone born of God knows God. Romans 4: 5 The elect have the righteousness of Jesus through their faith. To be righteous one had to obey the commandments. If God imputes righteous, He is saying they obeyed His laws, commandments and all that was necessary to be righteous.


1 John 5:1 The elect will trust Jesus for salvation till they die. That faith is what overcame the world. Those who have faith in Jesus, that same faith is their righteousness.


1 John 5:4 The elect overcame the world because they kept believing in Jesus until they died.


1 John 5:18 Romans 4: 5-8 The elect has the righteousness of Jesus through their faith. To be righteous one had to obey the commandments. If God imputes righteous, He is saying they obeyed His laws, commandments and all that was necessary to be righteous. He who has been born of God, Jesus, remains faithful even if we are not and will keep us from Satan. He cannot deny himself.

 

[fli]

How about "Everything Reproduces After It's Own Kind" ?
i.e. nothing becomes something , nothing is born, that is not like it's own kind.

• When you disagree with someone's position, you should post evidence and supporting statements for your position. This policy, sometimes referred to as "X means Y because of Z", must be followed especially when posting claims that are widely considered to be controversial.

 

[fli]

Since God does not impute sin to those in Christ, does that mean if they do wrong that there are no consequences? No! God will discipline them.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. NKJV


According to God we are dead in Christ. A dead person is not subject to the law. If we are dead, how come we are still walking around?


Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. NKJV


If we are in the Spirit, we are being obedient to Jesus' convictions and we have the Spirit of God in us. Isn't Jesus God and we have His Spirit. What is keeping us alive?


Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. NKJV


According to Galatians 1:1, and other scriptures, the Father raised Jesus from the dead. So, the Spirit of God is the Spirit the Father, who keeps us alive physically, and the Spirit of Jesus, who gives us eternal life. The reason for this is twofold.


First, God does this because a dead man is no longer subject to the law. As long as we are dead we are not subject to the law. As long as we are in Jesus we are dead that means we have to die in Jesus to keep the new spirit man in us from sinning. If we lose our saving faith we are no longer in Jesus. When a person leaves Jesus they commit an eternal sin. There is no more sacrifice for their sin. The new spirit man will go to Hades when the flesh dies.


The second reason God has developed this process is for discipline. As long as we are in the Spirit, God will fulfill the law of sin and death. If we are convicted by Jesus and we are spiritually minded, we will want to obey. Jesus will give us the power to eventually overcome the disobedience. Those who are carnally minded will choose to reject discipline and lose salvation. Those who are spiritually minded and their faith is strong enough will, with Jesus' help, be able to throw off the shackles of that convicted disobedience.


2 Timothy 2:11 This is a faithful saying: For if we died with Him, We shall also live with Him. 12 If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us. 13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself. NKJV


Those of a spiritual mind and weak faith will follow Jesus unto death.

 

[fli]

Those who are dead in this context know why they are still walking around.
The world cannot ever understand this.

The world think we are crazy if we believe it. Thank you.

 

[fli]

We are born again the moment we believe. Because of that, we were more ready than the criminal next to Him on the cross to die and go with Him. He leaves us here to do what we cannot do in heaven. The things we can do here that we cannot do in heaven is grow His kingdom by witnessing and our sanctification. It is obvious why we can't grow His kingdom from heaven. But we also have to be in the flesh to be sanctified.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. NKJV

Our new spirit is without blemish as it was born in Jesus. It is my understanding that our spirit man has to be strengthened to resist the old man while we are still in the flesh. We do need to keep him blameless while in the flesh. That means we must remain in Jesus. Therefore, we have to keep our flesh in Jesus as it's the package that contains the spirit and soul. We must put to death the sins of the flesh to stay alive physically and maintain the sanctification process. To do that we need a spiritual mind.


The soul, as I understand it, is changed the most in sanctification. Our soul contains our mind, memories and emotions. We must have a spiritual mind to make it through the sanctification process.


Paul described the spiritual mind in Chapter 7 of Romans. The spiritual mind thinks God's law is holy, just and good. The mind grows to understand that the only way to be happy and free is to obey God.

The only way to make it through the sanctification process is to have a spiritual mind. Paul, even though he persecuted Christians, started out with a spiritual mind. He just had to change the God he loved. For me, I started out with a mind that feared God being the main thing that kept me in check at first. I did agree that the only way to be happy was to obey God's laws because if I didn't, I would pay the price of sin. Now I completely agree with the spiritual mind. I love God and want to obey because it makes me happy to please Him. If you started by loving God and His laws, you were far ahead of me.


Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. NKJV


The major reason we sin is because in the flesh we are slaves to sin. If you put a spiritual mind in a spirit body, God gets a faithful, obedient and loving servant.


1 Corinthians 13:13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love. NKJV


Love is the greatest gift because it is the only gift we take into heaven with us.


Colossians 1:4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of your love for all the saints; 5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel. NKJV


We get our love for the saints and Jesus from our hope we have in Jesus. If our hope in Jesus grows, our love for Jesus and all the saints will grow.


Romans 8:24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. NKJV


Our hope ceases the minute we get to heaven. That is another reason Jesus leaves us here to be sanctified. He is giving us a chance to get to heaven with the greatest amount of the best gift, love. If we increase our hope in Jesus here on earth, we enter heaven with more love.


John 14:15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. NKJV


The more we invest in Jesus the more we lay up treasures in heaven. The more treasure we have in God's kingdom, the more our hope grows to be with Him. The more our hope in Jesus grows, the stronger our faith and love grow. The stronger our faith in Jesus and our love for Jesus grows our works put more treasures in heaven. Things will keep getting better spiritually. Trials and tribulation will increase, with Jesus, we will overcome. But all of that only increases our love for Jesus.


From the sanctification process God will get a servant with an abundance of love for Him. A servant that He can trust because he was made with God's love, by God's love, to love God and be loved by Him.

 

[fli]

As stated in my lost post one product of our sanctification is our increased love for Jesus. Christians in Muslim dominate, communist and Asian countries realize that their love for God is critical for them not to deny Christ. We in the west have had it easy. In the end times our love for Him will be essential for our salvation. During the end times there will be a great worldwide persecution against Christians. If we do not love God more than all other things it will be very hard to resist taking the mark of the beast. Only those with great faith and great love for Jesus will be able to stand.


Matthew 24:32 "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near — at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. NKJV


Modern day Israel reclaimed Jerusalem, with the temple mount, in 1967. The priests, Levites and orthodox Israelis were ready to build the temple. That generation will pass in 70 or 80 years. Most of the Christians alive today will be in the tribulation.

2 Timothy 4:8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing. NKJV


On that day meaning the day of the Lord. On that day Christians who “love His appearing” will survive through the persecutions.


James 1:12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. NKJV

The crown of life is promised to those who love Him. In the flesh Christians have three loves in competition with each other. Love of self, our egos, love of the world and love for God. Only those whose love for God is most dominate love will survive the end times.


Galatians 5:5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. NKJV


Only those whose love for God outweighs all other love will eagerly wait for Him through the great tribulation.


Philippians 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, NKJV


Only those who love God with all their heart, soul and might will eagerly wait for Jesus through persecutions.


Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. NKJV