Sons of the Devil Believe in Jesus

[Kyrilllos el Antony]

In John 8 we encounter a group of Jews who were believing in Jesus...



Although they believe in Jesus, they do not appear to truly be his disciples. A corrective from Jesus is needed...



Jesus then goes on to say to these believers that they are slaves of sin (John 8:34), his word finds no place in them (John 8:37), that their father is the devil and not God (John 8:44), and that they do not believe in Jesus (John 8:45).

How is it possible to be both believing and unbelieving at the same time? How is it possible to be a believer in Jesus and yet a son of the devil, as John shows us?

Just to be clear: you are not calling Jews sons of the devil, right? Because that would be quite anti-Semitic.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Not really. You can believe someone without believing in them. Like the demon example. They believe Jesus, but they don't believe IN Jesus.

Or they knew of Him.

Reminds me of this rather humorous story in Acts 19 concerning the 7 Jewish exorcists, sons of a Jewish high priest, who attempt to cast evil spirits out of someone by invoking the names of Jesus and Paul.
Note what the man did them LOL...........

Acts 19:
13 Now there were some itinerant Jewish exorcists who tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those with evil spirits. They would say, “I bind you by Jesus, whom Paul proclaims.” 14 Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this.
15 Eventually, one of the evil spirits answered them, “Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but you, who are you?”
16 Then the man with the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. The attack was so violent that they ran out of the house, naked and wounded.

 

[Wordkeeper]

I'm sure one could say that. But the topic here is the specific language used in the Biblical text of John 8 - whether or not one could say the people believed Jesus but didn't believe in Jesus.

Quote
A great rule to keep in mind is this: Faithfulness is targeted at people, belief is targeted at ideas. You can be committed to a person, or committed to an idea. But talking about faithfulness to an idea, or belief in a person is nonsense.

Theo Geek: The Patron-Client system and Hebrews 11:1

 

[Thedictator]

No you don't use the Bible to judge anything. Are you given the right? No, it is made very clear. You use the Bible to show the tempter that you mean business ... you ain't fooling around with him, as it were. This is what Jesus said, and did.

God gave Jesus right to judge.

He did this because He knew Jesus would choose, through God's Glory, to make the right decision and decide NOT to judge out of Love

I love how some Christians (if you can call them that) take one verse out of context and make a whole doctrine and ignore what the rest of the Word of God has to say on the subject because it nullifies their belief.

1 Corinthians 6:1-7 states that we are to Judge
1 Corinthians 5:1-2 States that we are to judge sin
1 Corinthians 5:9-13 We are to judge those in the Church
John 7:24 states that we are to make a right Judgement
2 Chronicles 19:6 States that we are to be careful when we judge

 

[Instrument150]

I love how some Christians (if you can call them that) take one verse out of context and make a whole doctrine and ignore what the rest of the Word of God has to say on the subject because it nullifies their belief.

1 Corinthians 6:1-7 states that we are to Judge
1 Corinthians 5:1-2 States that we are to judge sin
1 Corinthians 5:9-13 We are to judge those in the Church
John 7:24 states that we are to make a right Judgement
2 Chronicles 19:6 States that we are to be careful when we judge

Well I'm sorry you're so upset. I hope you get to the bottom of that

 

[Instrument150]

I would just like to point out that the word judgement can mean a couple different things. I can Judge your sin, I can also make a rational judgement on how to display it to you with Love

 

[Thedictator]

Well I'm sorry you're so upset. I hope you get to the bottom of that

I'm sorry if you thought I was upset with you, I was not. Have a good night.

 

[Thedictator]

I would just like to point out that the word judgement can mean a couple different things. I can Judge your sin, I can also make a rational judgement on how to display it to you with Love

Well we agree.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Romans 8:4
That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit.
Romans 1:32
Who, though fully knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do them, but also have fellow delight in those who practice them.
Galatians 5:16
But I say, Walk by the Spirit and you shall by no means fulfill the lust of the flesh.​

The righteous judgment being fulfilled in believers isn't an outward act but an inward working of the Spirit that believers yield to continuously. To constantly yield is the practise imho. To not continously yield would be like those who saw the truth, decided not to stone another but next time ignored the light that Christ had shed upon the path and instead fought to show themself right after learning the truth. If believers continued to walk in the truth (the reality of God's judgement) the Spirit within believers spontaneously fulfills all the righteous requirements of the law through believers when we walk according to Him.

Philippians 3:17-18
Brothers and sisters, join in imitating me, and observe those who live according to the example you have in us.
For many live as enemies of the cross of Christ; I have often told you of them, and now I tell you even with tears. ,
1 Peter 5:3
Do not lord it over those in your charge, but be examples to the flock.
Titus 2:7
Show yourself in all respects a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, gravity,
1 Timothy 4:12
Let no one despise your youth, but set the believers an example in speech and conduct, in love, in faith, in purity.​

 

[Oseas]

In John 8 we encounter a group of Jews who were believing in Jesus...
Although they believe in Jesus, they do not appear to truly be his disciples. A corrective from Jesus is needed...
Jesus then goes on to say to these believers that they are slaves of sin (John 8:34), his word finds no place in them (John 8:37), that their father is the devil and not God (John 8:44), and that they do not believe in Jesus (John 8:45).
How is it possible to be both believing and unbelieving at the same time? How is it possible to be a believer in Jesus and yet a son of the devil, as John shows us?

The summary of everything written on the four pages of this topic is found in James 2:19

v.19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Furthermore, for better understanding:
John 6:67to71
67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
In that time, there was 1 betrayer in 12 , today the earth is infested of betrayers.

2Corinthians 11:13-15
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

[Oseas]

The summary of everything written on the four pages of this topic is found in James 2:19

v.19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Furthermore, for better understanding:
John 6:67to71
67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
In that time, there was 1 betrayer in 12 , today the earth is infested of betrayers.

2Corinthians 11:13-15
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.


The betrayers will be cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.


The betrayers will be cast into the lake of fire.

Who's end shall be according to their works ... works are what is to be burnt. 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 . They are those who do not know that they are naked, poor and blind.

 

[1213]

...
How is it possible to be both believing and unbelieving at the same time? How is it possible to be a believer in Jesus and yet a son of the devil, as John shows us?

I think the difference is in believe that Jesus exists and believe what Jesus said. Many can believe that Jesus is, but not all of them believe what Jesus said.

 

[Wordkeeper]

In John 8 we encounter a group of Jews who were believing in Jesus...



Although they believe in Jesus, they do not appear to truly be his disciples. A corrective from Jesus is needed...



Jesus then goes on to say to these believers that they are slaves of sin (John 8:34), his word finds no place in them (John 8:37), that their father is the devil and not God (John 8:44), and that they do not believe in Jesus (John 8:45).

How is it possible to be both believing and unbelieving at the same time? How is it possible to be a believer in Jesus and yet a son of the devil, as John shows us?

Baptism is the beginning of the process of God's revelation of Himself to those who have agreed to turn from serving mammon/Egypt to serving Him. Of course this will result in difficulty in accepting a few things and some will stop following Him, whilst others, who have the impression of the full reliability of God, regarding His goodness and His ability, will continue. We see this fluctuation in belief, in Abraham, when he lied that Sarah was not his wife. However, after drinking from the Rock, being convinced about God's goodness and power, he finally committed himself fully to God. What counts at the Judgement is the final state of loyalty.

OSAS'ers teach that real faith saves. They tell you that those who fell away had dead faith, to support their view that real faith saves. The reality is that Judas had real faith, initially. As he was exposed to more requirements from God, he could not accept those requirements and stopped following God inwardly.

 

[SummaScriptura]

This problem is only possible due to a misreading of the passage. There is a mixed group of Jews with whom Jesus is interacting. Some were believing in, on, of (etc.) Jesus, some were not. John is not verbose in explaining which group is in focus at any given point leaving the reader to use common sense. But alas, common sense is often in short order when the Bible is the subject.

 

[Wordkeeper]

This problem is only possible due to a misreading of the passage. There is a mixed group of Jews with whom Jesus is interacting. Some were believing in, on, of (etc.) Jesus, some were not. John is not verbose in explaining which group is in focus at any given point leaving the reader to use common sense. But alas, common sense is often in short order when the Bible is the subject.

Conjecture. The reality is that there are people who follow fully, and some who follow half heartedly.

Numbers 14:24
24"But My servant Caleb, because he has had a different spirit and has followed Me fully, I will bring into the land which he entered, and his descendants shall take possession of it.

 

[thetruth0]

In John 8 we encounter a group of Jews who were believing in Jesus...



Although they believe in Jesus, they do not appear to truly be his disciples. A corrective from Jesus is needed...



Jesus then goes on to say to these believers that they are slaves of sin (John 8:34), his word finds no place in them (John 8:37), that their father is the devil and not God (John 8:44), and that they do not believe in Jesus (John 8:45).

How is it possible to be both believing and unbelieving at the same time? How is it possible to be a believer in Jesus and yet a son of the devil, as John shows us?

There is a simple answer to your question. See the Parable of wheats and tares. For it is those which were sown while the farmer was away that are of their father the devil.

It is revealing that belief is inferior to knowledge.

I KNOW my sheep, they KNOW my voice, and they follow me. You shall KNOW the truth and the truth shall make you free.

In other words, anyone can confess, as demons did, that GOD came in the flesh. Anyone can say they believe. But only HIS sheep KNOW HIS Voice and Follow HIM.

The ones sown while the farmer was away cannot receive the WORD. The WORD has no place in them because they are not of GOD. So no matter how much they say they believe, they can never hear and understand the WORD in their hearts, or they would be converted and HE would heal them.

Those who KNOW HIM have no need to believe because they know HIM. When they speak of the GOD, all you hear is knowledge of the GOD, and not speculation, or guesses. Because they KNOW the GOD they serve as have all the true Prophets. Look at their speech, would you doubt the existence of the GOD they are speaking of? Words like that come from knowledge, not belief.

 

[-V-]

Quote
A great rule to keep in mind is this: Faithfulness is targeted at people, belief is targeted at ideas. You can be committed to a person, or committed to an idea. But talking about faithfulness to an idea, or belief in a person is nonsense.

Theo Geek: The Patron-Client system and Hebrews 11:1

So, John 3:16 is nonsense?

 

[thetruth0]

So, John 3:16 is nonsense?

John 3:16 contradicts James 4:4

4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

And the parable of wheats and tares, and John 8:44, unless you believe that satan has salvation too. GOD forbid!

There is an elect group, children of the kingdom - Wheats
and there are the children of darkness, - tares.

So you have to question, that it is written that GOD loved the world, when the GOD HIMSELF said that HE had plucked HIS children out of the World. The Love has always been for HIS children, Wheats not tares who HE said would be rooted out like chaff for the fire.

Why? Because they are not of GOD. They were not sown by GOD. They cannot Hear the Word and understand it.

 

[-V-]

John 3:16 contradicts James 4:4

4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

And the parable of wheats and tares, and John 8:44, unless you believe that satan has salvation too. GOD forbid!

There is an elect group, children of the kingdom - Wheats
and there are the children of darkness, - tares.

So you have to question, that it is written that GOD loved the world, when the GOD HIMSELF said that HE had plucked HIS children out of the World. The Love has always been for HIS children, Wheats not tares who HE said would be rooted out like chaff for the fire.

Why? Because they are not of GOD. They were not sown by GOD. They cannot Hear the Word and understand it.

No, they don't contradict. God loves everyone, even His enemies. And I don't see where you get Satan having salvation from.