Sons of the Devil Believe in Jesus

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In John 8 we encounter a group of Jews who were believing in Jesus...

John 8:30-31 said:
As he was saying these things, many believed in him. So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him...

Although they believe in Jesus, they do not appear to truly be his disciples. A corrective from Jesus is needed...

John 8:32 said:
“If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Jesus then goes on to say to these believers that they are slaves of sin (John 8:34), his word finds no place in them (John 8:37), that their father is the devil and not God (John 8:44), and that they do not believe in Jesus (John 8:45).

How is it possible to be both believing and unbelieving at the same time? How is it possible to be a believer in Jesus and yet a son of the devil, as John shows us?
 

Thedictator

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They did not have saving Faith that James talks about in his book. There is two type of Faith one does not save the other does.

1. Dead faith ( faith without works ) it can not save.
2. Alive Faith (faith with works) This will save. I'm not talking about works of justification, but works of faith, the kind of works that are done by the power of God. Take water baptism for example without God your only taking a bath you must have the power of God working to be baptized. Baptism is not a work we do but a work that is done to us. All work that a Christian does with the authority and power of God is a work of faith not a work of justification.
 
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-V-

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I think part of the problem is the phrase in v.31 "who believed in Him." It may just be "believed Him", rather than "in" Him. I have two Greek texts, one is the Textus Receptus and the other is Nestle's Greek. Looking at the interlinear translations, it looks like the TR adds the word "in". Not being able to read Greek, though, I have no idea if the Greek should be translated with or without it, or if it's a case where the text could be read either way.

If it's just "believed Him", then it wouldn't necessarily mean that they had faith in Him, only that they believed He was being honest about being the Messiah, but they still didn't like what He was teaching, He wasn't the Messiah they expected or wanted.

It's similar to how demons & the devil believe who Jesus is, but they still rebel against Him.
 
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They did not have saving Faith that James talks about in his book. There is two type of Faith one does not save the other does.

1. Dead faith ( faith without works ) it can not save.
2. Alive Faith (faith with works) This will save. I'm not talking about works of justification, but works of faith, the kind of works that are done by the power of God. Take water baptism for example without God your only taking a bath you must have the power of God working to be baptized. Baptism is not a work we do but a work that is done to us. All work that a Christian does with the authority and power of God is a work of faith not a work of justification.

Careful. Are you saying Peter had a dead faith?

Matthew 16:23
23And he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's.

You probably got this "dead faith, live faith" jive from your "church", and just accepted the teaching as the Gospel truth. A little study shows it isn't true. No one can actually show examples of dead faith, as I've just demonstrated.
 
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Wouldn't the 'in' that mattered be 'abiding in His word' and would constitute belief, the doing?

31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.
 
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Thedictator

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Careful. Are you saying Peter had a dead faith?

Matthew 16:23
23And he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's.

You probably got this "dead faith, live faith" jive from your "church", and just accepted the teaching as the Gospel truth. A little study shows it isn't true. No one can actually show examples of dead faith, as I've just demonstrated.

I do not know what Matthew 16:23 has to do with what I said but ok. As for no one can show an example of Dead faith your right. James states that. Faith with out works can't be seen be anyone, because it is not real faith. It sounds like you are the one who has accepted church teaching that goes against the Word of God. James teaching does give us two types of faith one Dead ( or not real) the other Alive ( or is not dead) or real.

James 2:14-26
 
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I do not know what Matthew 16:23 has to do with what I said but ok. As for no one can show an example of Dead faith your right. James states that. Faith with out works can't be seen be anyone, because it is not real faith. It sounds like you are the one who has accepted church teaching that goes against the Word of God. James teaching does give us two types of faith one Dead ( or not real) the other Alive ( or is not dead) or real.

James 2:14-26

You claimed that the one who was a son of the devil were the people with dead faith. Was Peter's faith a dead faith?

Please give an example of someone in Scriptures with dead faith.
 
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Thedictator

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You claimed that the one who was a son of the devil were the people with dead faith. Was Peter's faith a dead faith?

Please give an example of someone in Scriptures with dead faith.

Just because the Bible does not record something in history does not mean it did not happen or it is not happing. There are a lot of examples of people who said they were followers of God but were not.
Matthew 7:21-23 Is a good example of people believing in Jesus Christ they had faith not the right kind of faith, they did not do the will of God.

Like I said in my other post James teaching in James 2: 14-26 says that there is two types of faith one that is dead and one that is not dead. Are you saying that your personal belief supersedes the teaching of James the bother of Jesus Christ, or your belief supersedes the Very words of God in the Word of God?
 
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Thedictator

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You claimed that the one who was a son of the devil were the people with dead faith. Was Peter's faith a dead faith?

No because Peter had plenty of faithful works. Peters faith was accompanied by works of faith. Like walking on water.
 
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Just because the Bible does not record something in history does not mean it did not happen or it is not happing. There are a lot of examples of people who said they were followers of God but were not.
Matthew 7:21-23 Is a good example of people believing in Jesus Christ they had faith not the right kind of faith, they did not do the will of God.

Like I said in my other post James teaching in James 2: 14-26 says that there is two types of faith one that is dead and one that is not dead. Are you saying that your personal belief supersedes the teaching of James the bother of Jesus Christ, or your belief supersedes the Very words of God in the Word of God?

James meant weak faith when he used the word dead. There are MANY examples of weak faith in Scripture. See verse 22:

Matthew 13:18-25
18“Hear then the parable of the sower. 19“When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. 20“The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21yet he has no firm root in himself, but is onlytemporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. 22“And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 23“And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.”

Jesus said he personally chose Judas based on his having faith in Him, demons even submitted to him, so great was his faith and even that was not enough to save him, because he allowed it to become weak.
 
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Thedictator

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James meant weak faith when he used the word dead. There are MANY examples of weak faith in Scripture. See verse 22:

Well could have said weak faith but he did not, he said dead. You have badly twisted the Word of God to support an unbiblical belief. Dead means dead not weak. A body is not weak when it is dead, a body must have life for it to be weak, that life is over when death takes over. Your argument make no sense.
 
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Well could have said weak faith but he did not, he said dead. You have badly twisted the Word of God to support an unbiblical belief. Dead means dead not weak. A body is not weak when it is dead, a body must have life for it to be weak, that life is over when death takes over. Your argument make no sense.

So show me an example of dead faith.
 
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I think part of the problem is the phrase in v.31 "who believed in Him." It may just be "believed Him", rather than "in" Him. I have two Greek texts, one is the Textus Receptus and the other is Nestle's Greek. Looking at the interlinear translations, it looks like the TR adds the word "in". Not being able to read Greek, though, I have no idea if the Greek should be translated with or without it, or if it's a case where the text could be read either way.

Whether or not the preposition is present in the Greek doesn't matter because "him" is in the dative case. This automatically implies "in him". In some sense they do believe in him.
 
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You claimed that the one who was a son of the devil were the people with dead faith. Was Peter's faith a dead faith?

Please give an example of someone in Scriptures with dead faith.

Judas appears to have had dead faith because he ultimately apostatized.
 
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Jesus said he personally chose Judas based on his having faith in Him, demons even submitted to him, so great was his faith and even that was not enough to save him, because he allowed it to become weak.

Yes, there was a point in Judas Life when he had true faith but he abandon his faith( 1 Timothy 4:1) for money.
 
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Yes, there was a point in Judas Life when he had true faith but he abandon his faith( 1 Timothy 4:1) for money.

Jesus seems to suggest that Judas never truly believed (John 6:70).
 
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-V-

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Whether or not the preposition is present in the Greek doesn't matter because "him" is in the dative case. This automatically implies "in him". In some sense they do believe in him.
Not really. You can believe someone without believing in them. Like the demon example. They believe Jesus, but they don't believe IN Jesus.
 
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