Sexual Immorality In The Church

[SharonQld]

I go to a small Pentecostal Church - about 20-23 attending most weeks. I came out of Jehovah's Witnesses in the mid-90s and after a year just getting over all the legalism I ended up going to a conservative Baptist Church (KJV, ties, wearing pants frowned on) kind of Baptist Church. I got saved, Hubby also and our teenage daughter.

Fast forward and I've attended Pentecostal Churches. I've been going to my current Church for nearly 10 years. I'm struggling with sexual immorality - not me - but the allowing of it. I was chatting to a lady who got saved about 5 months ago (an older lady around perhaps 50) and she was telling me has moved in with her boyfriend.

In the past we have had on 3 different occasions Christians living in sexual immorality. Our music leaders daughter being one of them. Attending Church, known by everyone, asked to step down from the music team. Another person before her not attending anymore and another person after her also now not attending.

It concerns me. One of the things that concerns me is am I being unloving and judgmental or am I concerned because it's valid to be wondering what kind of Church is this that it is just ignored. I am struggling with what to do. After the last time it happened I said to my Husband that the next time it happens and nothing is done I will leave, and here it is again and I'm conflicted. Am I just a wrong Christian for thinking they should be put out of the Church (1 Cor 5), or am I some graceless condescending person who is forgetting that I sin just as much.

I feel sick about it all. The Pastor says we are living in the age of grace and not the age of judgment and I think that is why he has not felt it necessary to expel anyone who is living in sexual immorality and confessing to be a Christian.

What should my correct attitude be about this situation?

Secondly, we are under domination called INC. The Pastors are considering leaving it and closing the Church (we rent) and having the Church run out of their home. Not so much like a home Church but just a transferring to having Church at home with things being the same as now. We have just enough money coming in to pay rent and utilities, insurance, the Pastor's wage, phone, car, fringe benefits, internet with little left over. The Pastors need a new car but the Church can not afford it for them. The paperwork the organisation asks the Pastors to supply is also very time consuming for them to do. The Pastor has a full time job to supplement the monies the Church gives for their pastoring.

I'm concerned about this too as sometimes when you become your own little law to yourselves it can create a Church different to what it should be. I have no idea it will happen but at the moment there is a lot of talk of food storing, having gold or silver put aside, water etc and I wonder if we will become more obsessed with this once we are isolated into our little group at their house.

I struggle with these 2 issues and we are praying about them but not knowing what God wants us to do. It is on my mind a lot and I'm kind of scared about what might or might not happen in the next few months.

 

[SkyWriting]

I go to a small Pentecostal Church - about 20-23 attending most weeks. I came out of Jehovah's Witnesses in the mid-90s and after a year just getting over all the legalism I ended up going to a conservative Baptist Church (KJV, ties, wearing pants frowned on) kind of Baptist Church. I got saved, Hubby also and our teenage daughter.

Fast forward and I've attended Pentecostal Churches. I've been going to my current Church for nearly 10 years. I'm struggling with sexual immorality - not me - but the allowing of it. I was chatting to a lady who got saved about 5 months ago (an older lady around perhaps 50) and she was telling me has moved in with her boyfriend.

In the past we have had on 3 different occasions Christians living in sexual immorality. Our music leaders daughter being one of them. Attending Church, known by everyone, asked to step down from the music team. Another person before her not attending anymore and another person after her also now not attending.

It concerns me. One of the things that concerns me is am I being unloving and judgmental or am I concerned because it's valid to be wondering what kind of Church is this that it is just ignored. I am struggling with what to do. After the last time it happened I said to my Husband that the next time it happens and nothing is done I will leave, and here it is again and I'm conflicted. Am I just a wrong Christian for thinking they should be put out of the Church (1 Cor 5), or am I some graceless condescending person who is forgetting that I sin just as much.

I feel sick about it all. The Pastor says we are living in the age of grace and not the age of judgment and I think that is why he has not felt it necessary to expel anyone who is living in sexual immorality and confessing to be a Christian.

What should my correct attitude be about this situation?

Secondly, we are under domination called INC. The Pastors are considering leaving it and closing the Church (we rent) and having the Church run out of their home. Not so much like a home Church but just a transferring to having Church at home with things being the same as now. We have just enough money coming in to pay rent and utilities, insurance, the Pastor's wage, phone, car, fringe benefits, internet with little left over. The Pastors need a new car but the Church can not afford it for them. The paperwork the organisation asks the Pastors to supply is also very time consuming for them to do. The Pastor has a full time job to supplement the monies the Church gives for their pastoring.

I'm concerned about this too as sometimes when you become your own little law to yourselves it can create a Church different to what it should be. I have no idea it will happen but at the moment there is a lot of talk of food storing, having gold or silver put aside, water etc and I wonder if we will become more obsessed with this once we are isolated into our little group at their house.

I struggle with these 2 issues and we are praying about them but not knowing what God wants us to do. It is on my mind a lot and I'm kind of scared about what might or might not happen in the next few months.

The issue is that we don't have the time to consider actions regarding the sins of others.

Romans 12:12
Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer.

1 Thessalonians 5:16-18
Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

Philippians 4:6
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

Ephesians 6:18
Praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,

Colossians 4:2
Continue steadfastly in prayer, being watchful in it with thanksgiving.

Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

Matthew 21:22
And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”

1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

Revelation 1:7
Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

Titus 2:13
Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

 

[Carl Emerson]

Paul took sexual immorality very seriously and expelled folks who were unrepentant.

Sadly may churches today are embracing 'inclusiveness' and compromise on these issues.

I think the modern church has journeyed away from the spiritual family principles that made it spiritually potent initially.

If we return to the first chapters in Acts and get serious about such sins maybe God will again visit us with His mighty Holy presence.

 

[Anthony2019]

I spent a lot of time judging people in the church (and outside it) and inevitably the only person that left it was me. For about five years, I was without a Christian fellowship. I became bitter, critical, and the constant comparing of myself others seemed to spoil my entire character. Fortunately I did return, but it took me a very long time.

Given my life expectancy, five years is a massive chunk out of my life. Five years that could have been spent loving others and showing them I care. Welcoming them, sharing my common humanity with them, rather than rejecting ordinarily kind and decent people because I do not agree with one aspect of their lives.

I need to be pressing on towards the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward. But time is running short. When I read about the fruits of the Holy Spirit: love, joy, peace, forebearance, kindness, goodness, gentleness and self-control, it makes me realise how far I have left have to go.

Many years ago, I had a situation at work where I made a mistake and I had a meeting with my manager to discuss the problem. During the meeting, I tried to discuss the things other staff had done, or failed to do, but I was stood corrected when he told me that the meeting was not about them. It was about me.

I could find hundreds of reasons why I should continue judging my brothers and sisters, but one day when I come face to face with Christ, our most Holy and Perfect Judge, and complain about other's lack of faith or progress, I expect his answer to me will be "What about you?"

Not one of us is perfect, but I have come to believe that our lives are far better spent seeing and bringing out the best in people, as very often this brings out the very best in us.

 

[splish- splash]

Some of these pastors rely entirely on the congregation's financial contributions as a means of survival. As you might have already noticed, some don't actually have jobs outside of their ministries so, it wld feel like biting the hand that feeds them if they condemned sexual immorality.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Sharon, we live in a day and time in our society and in the church, largely, which is teaching a cheap grace gospel absent of true repentance, obedience to Christ, and submission to Christ as Lord, and yet they call it grace. But, that is not the grace of God taught in the scriptures. For, his grace, which brings salvation, instructs us to say "NO!" to ungodliness and fleshly lusts (worldly passions), and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives while we wait for Christ's return (Titus 2:11-14; Eph. 4:17-24; Rom. 6:1-23).

The church, at large, is teaching a watered-down gospel of grace which makes no requirements for repentance, obedience and submission to Christ, although the scriptures are heavy on these subjects, in particular with regard to the hope of salvation from sin and eternal life with God. We must die with Christ to sin and live with Christ to his righteousness if we want to be saved from our sins and have eternal life with God (Lu. 9:23-26; Rom. 6:1-23; Rom. 8:1-17; Eph. 4:17-24; 1 Jn. 1:5-9; Gal. 6:7-8).

1 Corinthians 5 makes it quite clear, as do other scriptures, that we are to grieve over such sins as mentioned there that are allowed to go on within the gatherings of the church with nothing being done to stop them. And, we are not to tolerate willful, habitual, defiant sin within the church, because it can grow like gangrene and impact the whole body of Christ, which is what we see happening today.

So, my advice to you is to follow the scriptures, and do what they say to do. Believe God and his word, and keep on caring about others the way you do, and the way Jesus did and does, which is why he preached the way that he did, and which is why he died on that cross, to deliver us out of our slavery (bondage, addiction) to sin so that we can now walk in holiness and righteousness, living godly lives pleasing to God, empowered by the Holy Spirit. So, listen to the Word of God and the Holy Spirit within you.

Sue Love

 

[Lost4words]

Who are we to judge?

We dont go to church to judge what other people look like or what they do. If you do, then you are there for the wrong reason.

Jesus mingled with sinners. He welcomed them. Loved them.

Stop judging others and concentrate on Jesus.

God bless

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Who are we to judge?

We dont go to church to judge what other people look like or what they do. If you do, then you are there for the wrong reason.

Jesus mingled with sinners. He welcomed them. Loved them.

Stop judging others and concentrate on Jesus.

God bless

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 says this: I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Judging others, in and of itself, is not wrong. There are plenty of scriptures which encourage us to judge others, but with a right judgment, based on scripture, not comparing others to ourselves, not hypocritically, not pointing out a speck in one person's eye while we have a log in our own, and not by human standards or culture or traditions of men. But, we are to judge with a right judgment, in love, for the purpose of helping others to walk faithfully with their Lord, and according to God's Holy Word.

Judging Others

(See: Gal. 6:1-5; James 5:19-20; 1 Co. 5:1-13, esp. v. 12; Matt. 7:1-5; Jn. 7:24; Jn. 7:51; Jn. 8:15-16; Rom. 2:3; 2 Co. 10:12)

Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor. For each will have to bear his own load. Gal. 6:1-5

My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. Jas. 5:19-20

It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.

For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.” 1 Corinthians 5:1-13

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.” Matt. 7:1-5

“Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.” Jn. 7:24

“Does our law judge a man without first giving him a hearing and learning what he does?” Jn. 7:51

“You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is true, for it is not I alone who judge, but I and the Father who sent me.” Jn. 8:15-16 (Jesus speaking)

“Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?” Rom. 2:3

“Not that we dare to classify or compare ourselves with some of those who are commending themselves. But when they measure themselves by one another and compare themselves with one another, they are without understanding.” 2 Co. 10:12

When we love others with Jesus' love, we will care enough about a brother or a sister in Christ who has fallen into a hole to go and to help pull them up out of that hole. Jesus didn't die for our sins merely to forgive us our sins, but he died to free us from our slavery to sin so that we might walk in his holiness and righteousness for the glory and praise of God. So, if we love others like Jesus loves us, we are going to tell people the truth about sin, about judgment, about righteousness, and of Jesus' righteous requirements of those who would want to be his followers (See: Luke 9:23-26; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-17; Ephesians 4:17-24; 1 John 1:5-9; Titus 2:11-14; Galatians 6:7-8).

 

[Sketcher]

In the past we have had on 3 different occasions Christians living in sexual immorality. Our music leaders daughter being one of them. Attending Church, known by everyone, asked to step down from the music team. Another person before her not attending anymore and another person after her also now not attending.

Please clarify: Was the music leader's daughter asked to step down from the music team, or did she herself ask to step down from the music team? And is she still both attending the church and living in sexual immorality now?

Secondly, we are under domination called INC. The Pastors are considering leaving it and closing the Church (we rent) and having the Church run out of their home. Not so much like a home Church but just a transferring to having Church at home with things being the same as now. We have just enough money coming in to pay rent and utilities, insurance, the Pastor's wage, phone, car, fringe benefits, internet with little left over. The Pastors need a new car but the Church can not afford it for them. The paperwork the organisation asks the Pastors to supply is also very time consuming for them to do. The Pastor has a full time job to supplement the monies the Church gives for their pastoring.

I'm concerned about this too as sometimes when you become your own little law to yourselves it can create a Church different to what it should be. I have no idea it will happen but at the moment there is a lot of talk of food storing, having gold or silver put aside, water etc and I wonder if we will become more obsessed with this once we are isolated into our little group at their house.

I struggle with these 2 issues and we are praying about them but not knowing what God wants us to do. It is on my mind a lot and I'm kind of scared about what might or might not happen in the next few months.

Is this the denomination? About – International Network of Churches Australia

Is the reason for wanting to leave purely financial, or are there other reasons? If there are other reasons, what are they?

 

[ViaCrucis]

When the Apostle spoke against the abuses and problems in the Corinthian church, he was dealing with a lot more than simply two people living together who weren't married; but with some pretty serious issues. For example, a man was sleeping with his father's wife, something even the Pagans found unacceptable. When the Apostle talks about "fornication", the word he uses is inappropriate contenteia, a word that generally meant prostitution, but could be used in other contexts.

Some background about Corinth: Corinth was a major port city in the ancient world, a center of trade, and thus had a lot of people coming and going. The city also was famous for the number of temples it contained, and many of those temples operated with temple prostitution--priests and priestesses using sacred prostitution as a form of worship and service to their patron god/goddess, and as a means of bringing in income to the temple. It's why the Apostle talks about the eating of food sacrificed to idols, and mentions idolatry throughout the text, often in the same places he talks about sexual problems.

Keep in mind, in the ancient world, Pagan practice was not just something people did on special occasions, but rather it ran throughout the ordinary, mundane, civil life of the populace. The fact that Jews and Christians didn't participate in these things is what made many suspicious of them, they were seen as civil dissidents, deviants. They were "weird", because both household offerings to the gods and temple offerings were regular, ordinary, mundane activities for the ancient Greco-Roman people of the Empire.

What seems to have been going on, among other problems, is that many of the Christians in Corinth, who had converted from Paganism, were still participating and engaging in Pagan practices. Remember, they had gone their entire lives living a certain way, but now they were being told not to do these things. It's a very different set of problems and circumstances then we see elsewhere, for example in other mixed communities or primarily Jewish communities Paul addresses other problems, such as the Judaizers in the churches of Galatia and Colossae. But here in Corinth we don't see the problem of the Judaizers, but rather the Christians forming factions, and then returning to their former Pagan ways--sleeping with temple prostitutes, and participating in Pagan temple rites. It's why the Apostle says in 1 Corinthians 10, "Flee from idolatry" and "You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons." Paganism has no place in the Church, one cannot spend the week celebrating and participating in Pagan rites and then, on Sunday, come to the Lord's Supper--these things are incompatible. No one can serve two masters.

So, yes, Paul does level harshness in certain circumstances. He specifically has the man sleeping with his father's wife instructed to be removed from the community, no longer welcome to celebrate the Lord's Supper with the rest of the community, "Do not even eat with such a person" (1 Corinthians 5:11).

What the Apostle is not advocating for, however, is a kind of judgmental, tyrannical moralism. But rather he is advocating pastoral oversight, unity among the Corinthian community, and taking seriously the calling of being Christians that they should. They were proud, and the Apostle is astonished at this, what did they have to be so proud over? A man sleeping with his father's wife, in-fighting, creating factions claiming "I am of Paul", "I am of Apollos", "I am of Christ" etc. So he says, "And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn?!" (1 Corinthians 5:2)

There are two kinds of problems that can happen: Legalism/Moralism and Hedonism. The problem in Corinth is clearly a problem of hedonism--self indulgence to the point of shamefulness. Whereas in other places the clear problem is legalism and moralism. The answer to hedonism is not moralism. Rather, a proper distinction between Law and Gospel, and preaching both faithfully. And the Apostle does this masterfully throughout his epistles. Preaching the Law against lawlessness and sin, and preaching the Gospel to sinners.

That's why pastoral care has to be administered to people and their situations. Not moralistic attack, nor hedonistic permissiveness--but rather always the call to come and be Christ's disciple.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[lismore]

The Pastors need a new car but the Church can not afford it for them. The paperwork the organisation asks the Pastors to supply is also very time consuming for them to do. The Pastor has a full time job to supplement the monies the Church gives for their pastoring.

Hello Sharon.

Corporately I think the church has a duty to reprove, rebuke and restore those caught in what the bible clearly calls sin. However I think you have hit the nail on the head, the church now (I know I'm painting with a broad brush) seems reluctant to risk alienating people and loosing a source of revenue, so things have been getting more woolly for a long time now. Allowing just about everything in order to keep 'Millennials' there. The problem is that nothing exists in a vacuum, ignoring biblical standards on one issue will ultimately spread through every aspect of church life, a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.

We are in the last days, our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ is coming soon. It's a call to holiness, a call to readiness. To be ready when the Lord returns. 2 Timothy 3:1-5 tells us that immorality will increase in our day, what will the response of God's people be to it? Will we lower the bar so that anyone can get over it, or go with God's standards and encourage the people to Holiness. Are we on the broad road to destruction or the narrow way to life? (Matthew 7:13-14).

It's an issue for me too, I have a relative in this boat, has a child with her atheist boyfriend. Is she saved? No-one knows, her parents and siblings won't broach the issue for fear of stopping the twice a year she goes to a Charismatic church.

I can only encourage you to pray and seek the Lord as to what he wishes you to do. In my own experience, I was Pentecostal for eight years, I found it to be superficially hip, no substance.

God Bless

 

[Arbown]

In the past we have had on 3 different occasions Christians living in sexual immorality. Our music leaders daughter being one of them. Attending Church, known by everyone, asked to step down from the music team. Another person before her not attending anymore and another person after her also now not attending.

It concerns me. One of the things that concerns me is am I being unloving and judgmental or am I concerned because it's valid to be wondering what kind of Church is this that it is just ignored.

You aren't wrong, though the leadership may not know what's going on with all these folks. The scripture is clear on not letting folks who call themselves Christians be allowed to remain in the local body if they are involved in certain sin. The leadership of the church needs to address these issues, and Christians, especially new ones, need to be made aware of this up front. Allowing other immature Christians to see folks living this way and suffering no consequences is a bad witness.

This is a valid concern, particularly with the Laodicean attitude permeating much of modern church.

I am struggling with what to do. After the last time it happened I said to my Husband that the next time it happens and nothing is done I will leave, and here it is again and I'm conflicted. Am I just a wrong Christian for thinking they should be put out of the Church (1 Cor 5), or am I some graceless condescending person who is forgetting that I sin just as much.
...
What should my correct attitude be about this situation?

No you are not wrong, and scripture backs you up. Many today are not true Christians in the church, and the biggest sign is their lack of desire to obey God. This lifestyle is 100% unacceptable to Christ. The fact this concerns you points toward you actually caring about what God cares about, which is the right starting point.

You do need to guard against being self-righteous or arrogant (which is easy to do when you see Christians obviously screwing up). Tact is always appropriate when bringing up the issue, which you need to do with the church leadership. You have concerns, which they need to address. These are legitimate concerns about their competency and commitment in leading a body of believers; they are accountable to Christ for it. It isn't fair not to point out what you see as an area of significant iniquity in the body that isn't being addressed by the elders. Also pray, both for these people and for the church leadership to have their eyes opened and realize what they are doing.

A church elder can deal with these sins with the member one on one, without having to kick them out, provided the member is receptive to changing their lifestyle. Sometimes they just need to be confronted about it. Other times, they need to be kicked out. But just ignoring it is unacceptable. However, you need to speak with the leadership to find out if that is indeed happening or if they are doing something, and you just don't know about it (that to is a possibility).

The Pastor says we are living in the age of grace and not the age of judgment and I think that is why he has not felt it necessary to expel anyone who is living in sexual immorality and confessing to be a Christian.

It's also a red flag that the real issue is less with the sinning individuals and more with leadership that isn't leading or is leading it's own agenda rather than God's. Too many men want to be pop-star employees in organized church, but don't want to do the uncomfortable work that's a necessary part of the job.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

You aren't wrong, though the leadership may not know what's going on with all these folks. The scripture is clear on not letting folks who call themselves Christians be allowed to remain in the local body if they are involved in certain sin. The leadership of the church needs to address these issues, and Christians, especially new ones, need to be made aware of this up front. Allowing other immature Christians to see folks living this way and suffering no consequences is a bad witness.

This is a valid concern, particularly with the Laodicean attitude permeating much of modern church.



No you are not wrong, and scripture backs you up. Many today are not true Christians in the church, and the biggest sign is their lack of desire to obey God. This lifestyle is 100% unacceptable to Christ. The fact this concerns you points toward you actually caring about what God cares about, which is the right starting point.

You do need to guard against being self-righteous or arrogant (which is easy to do when you see Christians obviously screwing up). Tact is always appropriate when bringing up the issue, which you need to do with the church leadership. You have concerns, which they need to address. These are legitimate concerns about their competency and commitment in leading a body of believers; they are accountable to Christ for it. It isn't fair not to point out what you see as an area of significant iniquity in the body that isn't being addressed by the elders. Also pray, both for these people and for the church leadership to have their eyes opened and realize what they are doing.

A church elder can deal with these sins with the member one on one, without having to kick them out, provided the member is receptive to changing their lifestyle. Sometimes they just need to be confronted about it. Other times, they need to be kicked out. But just ignoring it is unacceptable. However, you need to speak with the leadership to find out if that is indeed happening or if they are doing something, and you just don't know about it (that to is a possibility).



It's also a red flag that the real issue is less with the sinning individuals and more with leadership that isn't leading or is leading it's own agenda rather than God's. Too many men want to be pop-star employees in organized church, but don't want to do the uncomfortable work that's a necessary part of the job.

OH, Amen and Amen!! I so agree! Good counsel here, too!!

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I feel sick about it all. The Pastor says we are living in the age of grace and not the age of judgment and I think that is why he has not felt it necessary to expel anyone who is living in sexual immorality and confessing to be a Christian.

There are a few ways to look at this, it may not be a heart sin on the part of your pastor, he may be hoping that by keeping (as an example the Worship Leaders daughter) in the church, he may hope they will be drawn to change.

As a person in general, I think I would find it hard to expel a persons daughter, young people are often fickle, and go through stages of rebellion against church and God. To expel every young person would not be wise.

However if it was a mature person, who knew better, some one with some experience in life, then there may be a place for it.

If you were to find that the pastor did overlook sexual sin, in his heart, then it would be time to leave. But you should not assume, based upon a thought, ask and investigate the motives.

 

[NWGeorgiaguy]

I go to a small Pentecostal Church - about 20-23 attending most weeks. I came out of Jehovah's Witnesses in the mid-90s and after a year just getting over all the legalism I ended up going to a conservative Baptist Church (KJV, ties, wearing pants frowned on) kind of Baptist Church. I got saved, Hubby also and our teenage daughter.

Fast forward and I've attended Pentecostal Churches. I've been going to my current Church for nearly 10 years. I'm struggling with sexual immorality - not me - but the allowing of it. I was chatting to a lady who got saved about 5 months ago (an older lady around perhaps 50) and she was telling me has moved in with her boyfriend.

In the past we have had on 3 different occasions Christians living in sexual immorality. Our music leaders daughter being one of them. Attending Church, known by everyone, asked to step down from the music team. Another person before her not attending anymore and another person after her also now not attending.

It concerns me. One of the things that concerns me is am I being unloving and judgmental or am I concerned because it's valid to be wondering what kind of Church is this that it is just ignored. I am struggling with what to do. After the last time it happened I said to my Husband that the next time it happens and nothing is done I will leave, and here it is again and I'm conflicted. Am I just a wrong Christian for thinking they should be put out of the Church (1 Cor 5), or am I some graceless condescending person who is forgetting that I sin just as much.

I feel sick about it all. The Pastor says we are living in the age of grace and not the age of judgment and I think that is why he has not felt it necessary to expel anyone who is living in sexual immorality and confessing to be a Christian.

What should my correct attitude be about this situation?

Secondly, we are under domination called INC. The Pastors are considering leaving it and closing the Church (we rent) and having the Church run out of their home. Not so much like a home Church but just a transferring to having Church at home with things being the same as now. We have just enough money coming in to pay rent and utilities, insurance, the Pastor's wage, phone, car, fringe benefits, internet with little left over. The Pastors need a new car but the Church can not afford it for them. The paperwork the organisation asks the Pastors to supply is also very time consuming for them to do. The Pastor has a full time job to supplement the monies the Church gives for their pastoring.

I'm concerned about this too as sometimes when you become your own little law to yourselves it can create a Church different to what it should be. I have no idea it will happen but at the moment there is a lot of talk of food storing, having gold or silver put aside, water etc and I wonder if we will become more obsessed with this once we are isolated into our little group at their house.

I struggle with these 2 issues and we are praying about them but not knowing what God wants us to do. It is on my mind a lot and I'm kind of scared about what might or might not happen in the next few months.

First we can make assumptions couples living together we assume sex is involved. Also what if marriage is in the horizon like in a few weeks??? we don't know. So and so slipped up gave in sexual once or twice nobody knows because they keep it to themselves. Couples sitting close together in church holding hands not married oh no they gotta be doing the deed. I say this to say just an average church goer seeing this you're not affliated or on staff at this church but you just can't be an outsider coming off the streets and micro manage this. But let's say you are associated with the church in some fashion and there is some shady stuff going on with well known members or staff then I see nothing wrong bringing such matters to elders or pastors. There is a line that can be crossed on this issue but it comes down to elders or pastor to make a disernment.
Now let's flip this let's say this guy or girl just went to a church with couple of hundred or so attendees. They see stuff they don't agree with maybe it's the wrong bible, doctrine, tithing, dress code, music, speaking in tongues and we can put sex immorality. Would you feel the need to address this?
If It was me I worry about me there will always be others doing stuff I don't agree with. This responsibility falls on the pastor and elders.

 

[Rebecca4Christ]

Who are we to judge?

We dont go to church to judge what other people look like or what they do. If you do, then you are there for the wrong reason.

Jesus mingled with sinners. He welcomed them. Loved them.

Stop judging others and concentrate on Jesus.

God bless

Jesus didn't "mingle" with sinners. He told them the truth, and to repent .

 

[Lost4words]

Jesus didn't "mingle" with sinners. He told them the truth, and to repent .

He did. He eat with them.

He preached to them.