Second-chance Purgatory?

[Calvin_1985]

Jesus' work is finished, but the application of that work is ongoing. And, though you will not believe it, the application of that work includes what happens in purgatory, where sanctification is finished off.

PS. It's 'resurrection'. That is the most important event in history, with one 's' and three 'r's.

I ask this because maybe I haven't seen it in the scripture, and I've read all but a couple of the prophetic books in entirety(mainly because The Lord hasn't used it in my life yet) and have never once seen anything that would indicate a purgatory of any kind. There is Abrahams Bosom and what is known as Hell mentioned prior to the Death Burial and Resurrection of Jesus, but that isn't the same thing considering Abrahams Bosom is only spoken of once and it never says anything about further purification beyond this life. With that said, could you show any scriptures to me that directly say or demonstrate in anyway implicitly that there is a purgatory?

 

[~Zao~]

Not that I believe in purgatory, I believe that Full sanctification takes place in every believer on their time on this earth. Full sanctification is not as expansive as it is made out to be by some, but is the refinement of our entire being. We are all sanctified at different rates, but Father does accordingly to the story he had written for each of us. Individual Salvation from the moment of conversion to the moment we pass away, is a Spiritual correlative of the overall Recreation of the entire world. Just as the Gospel started as seed with Jesus Messiah being that seed in the heart of the Earth, Jerusalem, it too starts in our heart. Jesus took root in Jerusalem. From there, it spread throughout the nation of Israel, the surrounding nations, then the Gospel was taken to the uttermost regions of the Earth and has been growing ever since, thereby bringing the Creation into perfect union with Our Creator. It's the same with individual Salvation. Starts in the Heart, sprouts and spreads to your Mind, your soul, and your Life. The very History of Gods Redemptive plan is seen not only the grand scale of world History and The Gospel in History, not only written of in a completed book, but is testified also in the act of Salvation working itself out over our lives.

I don’t agree with that because to leaves out individual choice and the act of yielding to God in His way rather than our own. I think it also leaves out the individual choice of nearness to God. Even tho His Love would have us all completely surrendered to Him in all things that is never the case but rarely. I think we will all find ourselves positioned with Him in the place of our own choosing. And some choose to be in complete opposition to Him and that too is taken into account.

 

[Calvin_1985]

Does your bad choices drive you Father in Humility and Repentance like the prodigal son? Each individuals sanctification is at different speeds and tat depends on the person. Like I said, sanctification isn't as expansive as to what some make it. It's much more simplistic then that. That is why religious practices and doctrines are dangerous. They impede the progress of a believer and what they could have done in the Kingdom. The Bible is a reflection of what takes place in which God showed that he took and made it onto good despite what we humans brought upon it.
If something is of God, it can't be overthrown, even by our own decisions.

 

[Jonaitis]

Hello, I've never been on one of these forums before but have to hear some other opinions on this. I was raised to believe that if you do not accept Jesus into your heart, you go to hell... period. Well the other night this topic somehow came up with my boyfriend and he does not feel the same way (he grew up Christian as well). He believes that people across the world who did not grow up in a Christian society and who were raised by their families to believe a different religion, will not automatically go to hell, but instead go to some sort of purgatory where God will give them a second chance. He doesn't believe that God would condemn someone to hell for believing in the religion their parents taught them to. I'm not sure of anything like this being referenced in the Bible and am feeling very conflicted now. Thoughts?

First, purgatory doesn't exist, it has no support from Scripture.

Second, sinners deserve to be punished in hell for their sin, regardless if they have access to the gospel or not. We will have to give an account of our lives, with every word and thought, on judgment day. Simply saying you didn't know about Jesus will not excuse you.

 

[Devin P]

Hello, I've never been on one of these forums before but have to hear some other opinions on this. I was raised to believe that if you do not accept Jesus into your heart, you go to hell... period. Well the other night this topic somehow came up with my boyfriend and he does not feel the same way (he grew up Christian as well). He believes that people across the world who did not grow up in a Christian society and who were raised by their families to believe a different religion, will not automatically go to hell, but instead go to some sort of purgatory where God will give them a second chance. He doesn't believe that God would condemn someone to hell for believing in the religion their parents taught them to. I'm not sure of anything like this being referenced in the Bible and am feeling very conflicted now. Thoughts?

It's Catholic, but as stated before isn't really scriptural. It's just their traditional belief.

We are supposed to be a nation of kings and priests, ruling over people in the millennium, so there will have to be people we rule over. I believe these will be those that were either aborted, had no chance to accept Him or were brought up in falsehood.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Hello, I've never been on one of these forums before but have to hear some other opinions on this. I was raised to believe that if you do not accept Jesus into your heart, you go to hell... period. Well the other night this topic somehow came up with my boyfriend and he does not feel the same way (he grew up Christian as well). He believes that people across the world who did not grow up in a Christian society and who were raised by their families to believe a different religion, will not automatically go to hell, but instead go to some sort of purgatory where God will give them a second chance. He doesn't believe that God would condemn someone to hell for believing in the religion their parents taught them to. I'm not sure of anything like this being referenced in the Bible and am feeling very conflicted now. Thoughts?

Why would a good and merciful Father create children who will be sent to hell? What Catholics believe is that, if you have not accepted Jesus, through no fault of your own (such as if you've never been shown the Gospel, how could you even know to agree with it?) God, in His mercy, takes those who have never been given the opportunity for baptism, and we believe he is merciful.
That's not the same as purgatory. In the concept of sin, we believe you have to understand what a sin is, know it's a sin when you commit it, and decide to do it anyway. None of us is perfect, as Romans tells us, but we can still be in some way in friendship with God. We need our imperfections removed, and that's what purgatory is. Think of it as raw gold, removed from the ground, and heated until the imperfections are burnt up.

 

[Root of Jesse]

First, purgatory doesn't exist, it has no support from Scripture.

Second, sinners deserve to be punished in hell for their sin, regardless if they have access to the gospel or not. We will have to give an account of our lives, with every word and thought, on judgment day. Simply saying you didn't know about Jesus will not excuse you.

Maybe in YOUR Scripture, but it is in mine.

 

[Root of Jesse]

That is a catholic doctrine but has little to no support in either scripture or early Jewish tradition.

What she stated is not Catholic doctrine of Purgatory. And if it has a little support in Scripture, it's scriptural.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I was not aware that the Catholic church believed that non believers got a chance in Purgatory to become believers. Are you sure this is the doctrine of the RCC?

No, it's not. We believe in God's mercy, and purgatory is part of that mercy, but those who haven't had the opportunity to be baptized are not automatically sinners.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Not in the Jewish canon, nor the protestant canon

Jewish canon was developed after Catholic canon, to contradict Catholic canon.

 

[Root of Jesse]

That is close to saying the protestants are not christian.

As a messianic, we follow the Jewish canon on the Hebrew scriptures. Maccabees are not in Hebrew. Never were.

That doesn't make them any less Scriptural. Also, why would we decide to follow Jewish canon???

 

[Dave-W]

That doesn't make them any less Scriptural. Also, why would we decide to follow Jewish canon???

Because that was the canon our Lord recognized as talking about Him.

While it was not “formally” recognized, the Pharasaic canon consisted of 3 parts: The Torah (law of Moses) the Prohpets and the writings aka “Psalms.” Our Lord referered to those parts often.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Purgatory isn't a doctrine relating to non-believers.

Exactly,
The only term for that is "Ultimate Reconciliation" ... which is more a "Controversial Theology" topic.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I ask this because maybe I haven't seen it in the scripture, and I've read all but a couple of the prophetic books in entirety(mainly because The Lord hasn't used it in my life yet) and have never once seen anything that would indicate a purgatory of any kind. There is Abrahams Bosom and what is known as Hell mentioned prior to the Death Burial and Resurrection of Jesus, but that isn't the same thing considering Abrahams Bosom is only spoken of once and it never says anything about further purification beyond this life. With that said, could you show any scriptures to me that directly say or demonstrate in anyway implicitly that there is a purgatory?

Only after you show me that I may only believe those things that are specified in Scripture.

 

[Calvin_1985]

Only after you show me that I may only believe those things that are specified in Scripture.

All I can tell you is that the scripture, the Bible is the written word of God that gives us all the truths of every aspect of life. It shows us who Our Creator is and it shows us the fabric of life. It shows us who we are. It shows us Fathers judgements. It shows His will. It gives the example of How God works so that we may know that the Spirit we have given our lives to is not some figment of our imaginations. It is one, not the only way, but one of the ways that God speaks to us. It's there so that we can know the beginning to the end. It is the story of what Salvation looks like from the grander scale of God recreating the tainted world down to the individual reflection. The Bible gives us the story of Redemption through God himself coming into Human flesh to reconcile us and the whole creation to him. The Scriptures are the judgements of Yahweh for what is righteous and what is evil. It gives us all the solutions to life.

That said, the Bible doesn't always say something specifically in black and white, but if it's of Our Creator, Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, His Spirit I Am will demonstrate it through the many stories of The Old Testament. The Bible shows us many things and answers any and all questions or disputes people have in determining what Salvation actually is and what it involves. The number 1 thing that the Bible shows is essential in gaining Salvation is Faith. It begins and ends with Faith. It is spoken of in many places, but heavily demonstrated in the entirety of it's pages. The Bible gives us the intimate things of the Human Heart mind and soul. It only becomes dead and of no effect when the Child or Lost human puts any kind of filter over it. Father speaks through this word and he reveals it's truths in a reflective spiritual manifestation of it into our lives, showing us everything and giving us the right path to follow and to truly know our Father.

I truly hope that you take my advice and just lay aside everything you keep fighting to defend regardless of it being truth or a lie, and just go before God, empty. What have you got to lose. Just open yourself up to the written word of God seeking for him to speak to you. Father knows your heart and I don't, but I can say this about you, you have a passion for speaking what you believe, Father could really utilize that. Just let everything down and just be a child, start reading the scripture at the beginning as if you've never read or heard anything out of it.

 

[martymonster]

The lake of fire is the closest thing you'll get to purgatory.

 

[Unnamed Guy]

Hello, I've never been on one of these forums before but have to hear some other opinions on this. I was raised to believe that if you do not accept Jesus into your heart, you go to hell... period. Well the other night this topic somehow came up with my boyfriend and he does not feel the same way (he grew up Christian as well). He believes that people across the world who did not grow up in a Christian society and who were raised by their families to believe a different religion, will not automatically go to hell, but instead go to some sort of purgatory where God will give them a second chance. He doesn't believe that God would condemn someone to hell for believing in the religion their parents taught them to. I'm not sure of anything like this being referenced in the Bible and am feeling very conflicted now. Thoughts?

Hell is a hole is a grave. Check any dictionary. Everybody goes there except we who are alive when Jesus calls us to meet him in the air.

Everything you think you know about hell came from one book by an Italian guy named Dante Allighieri, based on Roman Catholic traditions.
https://smile.amazon.com/Divine-Comedy-Inferno-Purgatorio-Paradiso/dp/0451208633/ref=sr_1_3

The bible doesn't say much about heaven. There is a lake of fire, but only spirits go there.

 

[chevyontheriver]

All I can tell you is that the scripture, the Bible is the written word of God that gives us all the truths of every aspect of life. It shows us who Our Creator is and it shows us the fabric of life. It shows us who we are. It shows us Fathers judgements. It shows His will. It gives the example of How God works so that we may know that the Spirit we have given our lives to is not some figment of our imaginations. It is one, not the only way, but one of the ways that God speaks to us. It's there so that we can know the beginning to the end. It is the story of what Salvation looks like from the grander scale of God recreating the tainted world down to the individual reflection. The Bible gives us the story of Redemption through God himself coming into Human flesh to reconcile us and the whole creation to him. The Scriptures are the judgements of Yahweh for what is righteous and what is evil. It gives us all the solutions to life.

That said, the Bible doesn't always say something specifically in black and white, but if it's of Our Creator, Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, His Spirit I Am will demonstrate it through the many stories of The Old Testament. The Bible shows us many things and answers any and all questions or disputes people have in determining what Salvation actually is and what it involves. The number 1 thing that the Bible shows is essential in gaining Salvation is Faith. It begins and ends with Faith. It is spoken of in many places, but heavily demonstrated in the entirety of it's pages. The Bible gives us the intimate things of the Human Heart mind and soul. It only becomes dead and of no effect when the Child or Lost human puts any kind of filter over it. Father speaks through this word and he reveals it's truths in a reflective spiritual manifestation of it into our lives, showing us everything and giving us the right path to follow and to truly know our Father.

I truly hope that you take my advice and just lay aside everything you keep fighting to defend regardless of it being truth or a lie, and just go before God, empty. What have you got to lose. Just open yourself up to the written word of God seeking for him to speak to you. Father knows your heart and I don't, but I can say this about you, you have a passion for speaking what you believe, Father could really utilize that. Just let everything down and just be a child, start reading the scripture at the beginning as if you've never read or heard anything out of it.

You are right about several things. You don't know me. The Bible is one way, not the only way, but one way God speaks to us. And that people often filter the Bible to bad effect.

I think you may have agreed with me that the Bible does not teach that I may only belive those things that are specified in Scripture. Scripture does not specify a pattern for how a service of worship was run. Oh a few hints, but nothing like you would even be handed when walking into almost any Protestant c
Service today. And there were reasons for that. They didn't want to commit such important things to paper in an age of persecution. They passed that down orally to those ordained to lead the communities, from apostles to bishops to priests and deacons. It didn't need to be in the Bible what the liturgy was. But when Protestants came along trying to recreate worship by the Bible alone they filtered out the way of worship from the apostles and consequently had to make it up. Not always very well either.

You asked where Purgatory was in the Bible. I might ask where Sacrament or Trinity or Personal Savior are in the Bible. But at least we seem to agree that we are not Bible Only even as we use the Bible as an authority. So, you answered my question and I will answer yours. Purgatory is implied by the Books of Machabees, where some Jewish soldiers are killed in battle and the rest arrange to pray for them, after they were dead. That would make sense with purgatory and would make no sense without it. It's a Biblical instance of the Jewish tradition of praying for the dead.

You might say that isn't Scripture. But Protestants ripped that out because they didn't like the buying and selling of indulgences. They were right about that, as buying and selling of indulgences was a one time mistake by a Catholic violating Catholic rules. But the Protestants went further and threw out indulgences entirely, purgatory entirely, prayers for the dead entirely, and finally started tossing books from the Bible. If Luther had his way you would have a very truncated Bible. Philip Melenchton talked him out of sacking a chunk of the NT.

Christians used the Septuagent from the beginning. And it had all the books. When the canon of Scripture was closed it had all the books. But Judaism decided to close their canon differently. In particular, they wanted to exclude this Jesus the Messiah thing. They couldn't very well exclude Isaiah, but they managed to exclude the whole NT and all those other Greek things, figuring they could exclude Jesus if they only allowed Hebrew in their canon.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Purgatory isn't a doctrine relating to non-believers.

Thanks for making that clear.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Purgatory is for those who are saved, that they may be purged of all that is not ready to cross the threshold into heaven. The bad habits, the disordered attractions, the small-mindedness and prejudice, they all fade away there and a person is ready to live finally the way they crudely believed on earth.

It has nothing to do with a second chance. God will judge with infinite mercy and infinite justice. Who gets judged how is for God to decide, and not for us to second guess. What little we know is that purgatory is not the back door to save the unsaved.

That is what I thought. Thanks for the post.