Savior of the World, or Eternal Failure?

[nolidad]

No such animal in Abba's Barnyard!

Aionios kolasis is NOT aidios kolasis.

Furthermore: there is no time contraints on the love & mercy of the God of Glory. ZERO!

Greetings again Dr. Barclay.

“The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God’s punishment is always for man’s cure.”

So then if aionios kolasis is not aidios kolasis, then aionios zoe is not aidios zoe!

And as nowhere does god promise anyone aidios zoe- then you believe that life in heaven is only temprary like the punishment in the lake of fire is!

Finally you have seen what the Word of God is saying (though of course you are wrong because aionios is synonymous with aidios, but you cannot acknowlege that for whatever reason.)

 

[JacksBratt]

Dear Bratt: The great and mighty purposes of the Lord go far beyond what any of us are capable of imagining. It is not just a matter of going to heaven, but of coming Home to the One from whom we have become estranged as a result of being born into sin as a child of Adam 1.

His Kingdom is many faceted & many dimensioned.

In My Father's House are many dwelling places..

So, no answer.. You have no explanation.


If your theory is the truth... then we can all do as we wish... hold to no rules... hold to no morals or standards.. Because.. in the end.. we're all together anyway..

I pity people who believe this.

 

[nolidad]

I hang my head in shame for the wonderful things I believe!

I Believe

I believe that Jesus is “able to subdue all things to himself.” -Phil. 3:21-

I believe that Jesus came “that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are in earth in Him. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His own will.” -Eph. 1:10,11-

I believe “the Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering towards us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” -2 Peter 3:9-

I Believe

I believe “God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors as though God was making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: be reconciled to God.” -2 Cor. 5:19, 20-

I believe that “all nations shall be blessed.” -Gal. 3:8-

I believe that “the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” -John 6:33-

I believe that Jesus commanded us to be like himself: “Love your enemies, bless those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.” -Matt. 5:44,45

I believe Jesus when he said: “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw [Greek=draw, drag, impel] all mankind unto myself.”

I believe that “creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but by reason of Him who subjected it in hope, because creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.” -Romans 8:20,21-

AS DO I BELIEVE IN ALL THESE THINGS AS WELL!

But I also believe in Gods Word which you refuse to believe!

Matthew 25:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

aionios punishment and aionios life.

Matthew 7:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You accuse Jesus of lying because you say they shall enter into the kingdom!

John 3:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 King James Version (KJV)
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Once again you accuse Jesus of lying! Jesus said they shall not see life, you say they will!

Revelation 14:10-11 King James Version (KJV)
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Here forever and ever is aion- which is the noun that the adjective aionios is derived from! Once again reread Matt. 25:46. aionios kolasis =aionios zoe in time!

 

[nolidad]

Paul is saying that the same people who will be saved by fire, are the same group that will be destroyed. What are you even on about?

No he is not!

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 King James Version (KJV)
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

This is for saved people only! The word judgment here is bema. It was not a judgment seat for criminality but for awarding in the roman games or for soldiers after a battle.

The subject here is God judging a believers works done in His name!

Now the rest of the chapter:

17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's;

22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's;

23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

The English can give one cause to believe that oneself could defile his own body and god will destroy Him ( make him lose His salvation) this is not true.

The word defile and the word destroy are the exact same word phtheiro which is not damnation but corruption or defiling! When taken together with the rest of Pauls writings, especially Timothy, we know that if one defiles themselves (and defiling is to make one ceremonially unclean not an abomination) then theyu are not used for noble purposes but ignoble purposes.

It clearly says that Sodom will return to it's former estate. What are you talking about here? Are you trying to say that he's talking about the city itself, but not the people? Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if you are. Nothing surprises me around here, anymore.

No I am talking about people. But we know that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed and lost . God would not allow them to be returned to their life of debauchery! So when he says their former estate- it is referring to something else!

 

[nolidad]

I am actually in total awe.. that Christians would have even a sniff of a belief that nobody goes to eternal damnation.... It's just out right baffling.

Well when people are taught badly and reasonable sounding human philosophy is mixed with only part of Gods Word- all sorts of mischief occurs!

But let us remember they are still family! crippled by the enemy and taken captive in this area, but family nonetheless. I need to learn how to word things better. I got an official warning because someone had a snit when I called one out for being stubborn in an area.

But this forum models nearly all the false doctrines that Christians get decieved by! I enjoy the intensity of the debates. It is iron sharpening iron, and forces me to go back to teh word and th eoriginal languages and how th elanguage was used to learn and gorw and defend the true faith against believers as Paul said:
2 Timothy 2:26
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

[Saint Steven]

Due to the simple fact that you said that your life was much less stressful now that you ignore the fact that there is eternal damnation... Well.. I never had any of that stress... even though I have full knowledge of the fact that there will be eternal separation from God for some.

Didn't you say that your life is just as miserable as the lost? (something to that effect)

 

[Saint Steven]

Dear Bratt...

That's funny. - lol

 

[Saint Steven]

I am actually in total awe.. that Christians would have even a sniff of a belief that nobody goes to eternal damnation.... It's just out right baffling.

Right.
Like being told your whole life that the sky is red, and then someone claims it is blue. Baffling... - lol

 

[Der Alte]

AS DO I BELIEVE IN ALL THESE THINGS AS WELL!
But I also believe in Gods Word which you refuse to believe!
Matthew 25:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
aionios punishment and aionios life.
Matthew 7:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
You accuse Jesus of lying because you say they shall enter into the kingdom!
John 3:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:36 King James Version (KJV)
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Once again you accuse Jesus of lying! Jesus said they shall not see life, you say they will!
Revelation 14:10-11 King James Version (KJV)
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Here forever and ever is aion- which is the noun that the adjective aionios is derived from! Once again reread Matt. 25:46. aionios kolasis =aionios zoe in time!

Greek is now and has always been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking EOB translators, knows the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “aionios” and “kolasis?”
Note, in the EOB, Paul uses “αιωνιως/aionios,” in 1 Tim 1:17 synonymous with “αιδιος/aidios” in Rom 1:20, see below.

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.
___________
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
____________
1 Timothy 1:17 Now, to the eternal [των αιωνων/tōn aiōnōn] King. immortal. invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory unto ages of ages. Amen.
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf​

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. If anyone chooses to consult the EOB version I suggest they read the preface which summarizes the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.
In 1 Tim 1:17 Paul not only uses "aionios" synonymous with "aidios," in Rom 1:20, but also defines it by pairing it with "immortal" in the same verse.

 

[Der Alte]

Right.
Like being told your whole life that the sky is red, and then someone claims it is blue. Baffling... - lol

Let's flip that around, all one's life they are told that the sky is blue then one day, on a forum like this, someone says the sky is red because Ilaria Ramelli and J. Preston Eby said it was.

 

[Saint Steven]

Nobody has attempted to answer my question.....

If there is no eternal separation from God. No damnation. No eternal death.. No hell.. for those that don't accept Christ...

What are we all doing then? Why the missionaries?... Why the evangelical churches?.. Why the testimonies?.. Why the witnessing to the lost? Why pray for your lost family members living in sin? Why? Why? Why?


They're just going to be with us in heaven anyway.... According to your theory.

Since when is human religious activity the gauge of truth?

By that measure, I suppose Buddhism would probably be the winner.
Why build temples all over Asia and monasteries in the mountains of Tibet if it isn't true?
What a waste of effort, right?


I know this is hard to understand. (I can empathize) I appreciate that you are at least asking questions. Thanks.

I have only been looking into all this for about nine months, if I remember correctly. I had to hit the books. It has required a lot of study.

 

[Saint Steven]

Any thinking person should clearly see that if you translate the word AION which means an age by the word eternal, which has nothing to do with time, you immediately get the wrong idea. The same thing applies when the word AION is translated by the word world. It is incorrect and brings nothing but confusion. That is why so many Christians have been worrying about "the end of the world" when they should have been understanding God's special dealing here at "the end of the age." There is a great deal of difference between the expression, "He shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever," and the expression, "He shall be tormented day and night unto the ages of the ages." For ever and ever has no end. The ages of the ages do have an end, and their end will see every knee bowing and every tongue confessing that Jesus Christ is the Lord to the glory of God the Father. (Phil. 2:10; Rom. 14:10-11). The first expression forebodes complete hopelessness for billions and makes the faith of God of none effect. The second expression, which is completely correct, not only offers hope but expresses the ultimate fulfillment of the purpose which was purposed in Christ Jesus before the world began or before the ages were framed.

Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

 

[Der Alte]

Any thinking person should clearly see that if you translate the word AION which means an age by the word eternal, which has nothing to do with time, you immediately get the wrong idea. The same thing applies when the word AION is translated by the word world. It is incorrect and brings nothing but confusion. That is why so many Christians have been worrying about "the end of the world" when they should have been understanding God's special dealing here at "the end of the age." There is a great deal of difference between the expression, "He shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever," and the expression, "He shall be tormented day and night unto the ages of the ages." For ever and ever has no end. The ages of the ages do have an end, and their end will see every knee bowing and every tongue confessing that Jesus Christ is the Lord to the glory of God the Father. (Phil. 2:10; Rom. 14:10-11). The first expression forebodes complete hopelessness for billions and makes the faith of God of none effect. The second expression, which is completely correct, not only offers hope but expresses the ultimate fulfillment of the purpose which was purposed in Christ Jesus before the world began or before the ages were framed.
Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby

About 100 years ago E.W. Bullinger wrote a book titles Figures of Speech Used in the Bible." He documented more than 200 figures of speech. One of those is called Epizeuxes, the repetition of words for emphasis. Hebrew didn't have superlatives so to emphasize a word they would repeat it. One of the earliest examples is in Genesis 2:17 where God is quoted as saying "In the day that you eat of the fruit you will surely die." In Hebrew that is muth t'muth, dying you will die. So when one sees "for ever and ever" that is for emphasis it does not indicate that "aionios" does not mean "eternal."
Greek is now and has always been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking EOB translators, knows the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “aionios” and “kolasis?”
Note, in the EOB, Paul uses “αιωνιως/aionios,” in 1 Tim 1:17 synonymous with “αιδιος/aidios” in Rom 1:20, see below.

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.
___________
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
____________
1 Timothy 1:17 Now, to the eternal [των αιωνων/tōn aiōnōn] King. immortal. invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory unto ages of ages. Amen.
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf​

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. If anyone chooses to consult the EOB version I suggest they read the preface which summarizes the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.
In 1 Tim 1:17 Paul not only uses "aionios" synonymous with "aidios," in Rom 1:20, but also defines it by pairing it with "immortal" in the same verse.
In ten verses Jesus defines "aionios" as "eternal."
In 9 verses, Jesus defines “aionios” as “eternal.” Jesus used the word “aionios” 29 times, Jesus never used “aionios” to refer to something which cannot be eternal.
[1]John 6:58

(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[αἰώνιος/aionios] ​

In this verse Jesus contrasts “aionios life” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[2]John 10:28

(28) I give them eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, and they shall never [ου μη/ou mé] [αἰών/aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. ​

In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
[3]John 3:15

(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [αιωνιον] life.​

In this verse Jesus pairs “aionion” with “shall not perish.” Believers could perish in a finite period, “aionion life” by definition here means eternal life.
[4]John 3:16

(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [αιωνιον] life. ​

In this verse Jesus pairs “aionion” with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.
[5]John 5:24

(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [αἰώνιος] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. ​

In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.

[6]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.​

In this verse Jesus contrasts aionios life with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.
[7]John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.

In this verse Jesus contrasts aionios with “shall never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal.​

[8]John 6:27

(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. ​

In this verse Jesus contrasts “aionios meat” with “meat that perishes.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.
[9]John 8:51

(51) Very truly [αμην αμην/amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiōna] see death."​

According to noted Greek scholar Marvin Vincent,

The double negative [ου μη/ou mé] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally.​

 

[Saint Steven]

With a world population of 7 billion and the number of Christians worldwide at 2.5 billion, the vast majority of the world population is not Christian. And that term "Christian" is probably anyone who claims to be Christian, be it religiously or politically. (non-Muslim)

So, 7 billion minus 2.5 billion gives us 4.5 billion. If a generation is 40 years, how many billions would there be back to the first century? (50.5 x 4.5 = 227 billion) Countless billions seems like a pretty safe statement. Who can say?

So, over 200 billion "lost souls" in a forever burning hell with no hope of escape. Most of whom had never heard the name of Jesus.

Is this the plan of the God of love? NOT POSSIBLE !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Shrewd Manager]

This is usually what draws us to God.. an emptiness that we cannot fill without Him. And, a heart that wants to do as He did..



For what purpose? So you can feel good about yourself? All the people are going to heaven anyway... whats the Sense?


You're still... not answering the question....


What about little Johnny stealing cars and taking them for joy rides.. selling beer to teenagers.... breaking in to houses for fun, just a little rip... living life the way he wants... What does he have to worry.. he's going to heaven anyway..

OR...

Fred... Shyster.... gives you a quote on the new deck you want.. shows up and put up the frame.. asks for 1/2 the money.. you never see him again.... no worries.. he's going to heaven some day.

OR

Teddy.. has a used car lot.. sells cars with broken parts, worn out engines... fake safety checks.. warranted till you drive them off the lot...

Bob.. Doesn't like his neighbor... so.. he takes him fishing and drowns the guy... dumps his body in the lake... Still..........going to heaven.




SO..... again.... what ... is the point of any of this that we do? Why preach, Why witness, why evangelize? Why do missions?

All the people are going to heaven anyway.. you too...... so... why?

I have good news for you JB: NOBODY IS GOING TO HEAVEN IN OUR CURRENT STATE.

Despite what many self-professing Christians like to believe, saying that sinner's prayer and talking up Jesus isn't enough. We need to be CLEANSED and HEALED - in truth, not just as an intellectual exercise by way of magic incantations. This is real!

So everyone is on a scale of brokenness. Certainly those who have heard and done Jesus' words for many years will need less correction/ remediation, and will welcome it in faith that God has ordained the best outcome. Ever been in hospital and had a bone reset? It hurts, but it's necessary. For a child though, who doesn't understand what's happening, they'd think the doctor was torturing them.

So Shyster Fred will confront the truth of his sin, and be forgiven for it. In that moment where his sin is exposed to the pure light of truth, he realises his absolute shame and folly, his conscience laid bare. But God in His mercy forgives him, shows him the error of his ways, and reconciles him with a changed heart, repentant. Then you meet Fred in the Kingdom, he's a new man - he seeks you out and humbly apologises to you, begging your forgiveness and asking how he can make it up to you. How beautiful is that? Let the healing process begin!

We also have the chance to do that with our sins in this world, here and now. This is Jesus' teaching method, he goes back over the failures of Israel and corrects them, eg the temptations in the desert, the Garden of Gethsemane, the destruction of the temple...the list goes on.

 

[Saint Steven]

THE AGES OF THE AGES

The best way to arrive at the true meaning of a word is to study carefully the way it has been used. If we are to study a Greek word, we must go to the Greek text and not to a translation, nor to a definition which has been derived from an interpretative translation. If, in the original text, the word appears in different forms, surely these forms must have some special significance. A singular form cannot have the same meaning as the plural. Since both forms are used they should be distinguished when they are translated. Yet in certain places the singular form is translated by exactly the same words as the plural form and thereby the true import of the words is hidden. For example, compare the following passages: Heb. 1:8 Your throne, O God, is forever and ever (Gr: for the aion of the aion); Rev. 1:6 To Him be glory ... for ever and ever (Gr: for the aions of the aions); Eph. 3:21 Unto all generations for ever and ever (Gr: for the aion of the aions). In I Cor. 10:11 we have the expression, "The ends of the aions." In Heb. 9:26 we have "The end of the aions." How can a period that is definitely said to come to an end be endless? How can a group of such periods, each said to come to an end, be forever?

Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

 

[JacksBratt]

AS DO I BELIEVE IN ALL THESE THINGS AS WELL!

But I also believe in Gods Word which you refuse to believe!

Matthew 25:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

aionios punishment and aionios life.

Matthew 7:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You accuse Jesus of lying because you say they shall enter into the kingdom!

John 3:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 King James Version (KJV)
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Once again you accuse Jesus of lying! Jesus said they shall not see life, you say they will!

Revelation 14:10-11 King James Version (KJV)
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Here forever and ever is aion- which is the noun that the adjective aionios is derived from! Once again reread Matt. 25:46. aionios kolasis =aionios zoe in time!

Nice post

 

[JacksBratt]

Well when people are taught badly and reasonable sounding human philosophy is mixed with only part of Gods Word- all sorts of mischief occurs!

But let us remember they are still family! crippled by the enemy and taken captive in this area, but family nonetheless. I need to learn how to word things better. I got an official warning because someone had a snit when I called one out for being stubborn in an area.

But this forum models nearly all the false doctrines that Christians get decieved by! I enjoy the intensity of the debates. It is iron sharpening iron, and forces me to go back to teh word and th eoriginal languages and how th elanguage was used to learn and gorw and defend the true faith against believers as Paul said:
2 Timothy 2:26
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

I agree 100%. We all, at times, forget that these are brothers and sisters in Christ and I also have been guilty of ranting and venting to the point of being disrespectful of others.

Thanks for the reset.

 

[JacksBratt]

Didn't you say that your life is just as miserable as the lost? (something to that effect)

My point was that, in this life, I deal with all the same things of life... all the strife.. all the sickness and injury, all the financial trials, marital strains, dealing with others... That was my point.

However, I differ with non believers in the simple solid truth that I have been saved and will pass on to eternal paradise, by no work of my own.. only through my faith in Jesus Christ.

They.. do not have that.

 

[JacksBratt]

Let's flip that around, all one's life they are told that the sky is blue then one day, on a forum like this, someone says the sky is red because Ilaria Ramelli and J. Preston Eby said it was.

Excellent analogy.