Savior of the World, or Eternal Failure?

[Saint Steven]

My point was that, in this life, I deal with all the same things of life... all the strife.. all the sickness and injury, all the financial trials, marital strains, dealing with others... That was my point.

However, I differ with non believers in the simple solid truth that I have been saved and will pass on to eternal paradise, by no work of my own.. only through my faith in Jesus Christ.

They.. do not have that.

Thanks for the clarification.
Have you had the baptism with the Holy Spirit?

 

[JacksBratt]

Since when is human religious activity the gauge of truth?

By that measure, I suppose Buddhism would probably be the winner.
Why build temples all over Asia and monasteries in the mountains of Tibet if it isn't true?
What a waste of effort, right?


I know this is hard to understand. (I can empathize) I appreciate that you are at least asking questions. Thanks.

I have only been looking into all this for about nine months, if I remember correctly. I had to hit the books. It has required a lot of study.

So..... still no answer.. just hyperbola... and philosophical drivel..

 

[JacksBratt]

With a world population of 7 billion and the number of Christians worldwide at 2.5 billion, the vast majority of the world population is not Christian. And that term "Christian" is probably anyone who claims to be Christian, be it religiously or politically. (non-Muslim)

So, 7 billion minus 2.5 billion gives us 4.5 billion. If a generation is 40 years, how many billions would there be back to the first century? (50.5 x 4.5 = 227 billion) Countless billions seems like a pretty safe statement. Who can say?

So, over 200 billion "lost souls" in a forever burning hell with no hope of escape. Most of whom had never heard the name of Jesus.

Is this the plan of the God of love? NOT POSSIBLE !!!!!!!!!!!

Not God's plan at all.... Sadly.. these people have chosen to go against God's plan... deny Him, refuse His free gift.. refuse a free pardon... not except salvation..

Yep... sad.

What's worse.. what would really be worse.. Is all the Christians who are persecuted for standing up for the name of their savior.. all their hours of prayer for the lost, hardship for the work of the body of Christ.. Listening to the words of Christ to "go into all the world and preach the gospel" or "Go and make disciples of men"... Until that end time where the gospel has been preached to all the world...

Only to find out.. everyone is going to be allowed in anyway..

What do you say to those who were recently decapitated on YouTube.. for the name of their savior... by men who will stand beside them with all the glory of paradise, with them, for eternity...

Who is sad now?

 

[JacksBratt]

I have good news for you JB: NOBODY IS GOING TO HEAVEN IN OUR CURRENT STATE.

Despite what many self-professing Christians like to believe, saying that sinner's prayer and talking up Jesus isn't enough. We need to be CLEANSED and HEALED - in truth, not just as an intellectual exercise by way of magic incantations. This is real!

So everyone is on a scale of brokenness. Certainly those who have heard and done Jesus' words for many years will need less correction/ remediation, and will welcome it in faith that God has ordained the best outcome. Ever been in hospital and had a bone reset? It hurts, but it's necessary. For a child though, who doesn't understand what's happening, they'd think the doctor was torturing them.

So Shyster Fred will confront the truth of his sin, and be forgiven for it. In that moment where his sin is exposed to the pure light of truth, he realises his absolute shame and folly, his conscience laid bare. But God in His mercy forgives him, shows him the error of his ways, and reconciles him with a changed heart, repentant. Then you meet Fred in the Kingdom, he's a new man - he seeks you out and humbly apologises to you, begging your forgiveness and asking how he can make it up to you. How beautiful is that? Let the healing process begin!

We also have the chance to do that with our sins in this world, here and now. This is Jesus' teaching method, he goes back over the failures of Israel and corrects them, eg the temptations in the desert, the Garden of Gethsemane, the destruction of the temple...the list goes on.

So.. really no benefit. We should just stop worrying about the lost and our walk with God because....

God will give all of us a good stern talking too with furrowed brows.. and then we will all be good to pass into paradise..

That would include..

Hitler, the decapitators of the Coptic Christians on the beach.., suicide bombers, serial killers, Satan worshipers, drug dealers, pedophiles, Nero, and all these others who made a hell for other innocent people, on this earth..


Gotta say it sounds good for all the lost loved ones that we lay awake at night worrying about..

But....................Not biblical.

 

[JacksBratt]

Thanks for the clarification.
Have you had the baptism with the Holy Spirit?

What on earth does that have to do with anything?


It doesn't even matter if I believe in God.. to you... Why would this be of any concern... even to this thread?

 

[Saint Steven]

So..... still no answer.. just hyperbola... and philosophical drivel..

It does matter. Just not for the reasons you think.
This is why I emphasize the importance of understanding that we are saved in the HERE AND NOW. Salvation isn't ONLY some future event that we await in order to escape this earth some day. Salvation is LIFE NOW.

JacksBratt said: ↑
Nobody has attempted to answer my question.....

If there is no eternal separation from God. No damnation. No eternal death.. No hell.. for those that don't accept Christ...

What are we all doing then? Why the missionaries?... Why the evangelical churches?.. Why the testimonies?.. Why the witnessing to the lost? Why pray for your lost family members living in sin? Why? Why? Why?


They're just going to be with us in heaven anyway.... According to your theory.

 

[Saint Steven]

Not God's plan at all.... Sadly.. these people have chosen to go against God's plan... deny Him, refuse His free gift.. refuse a free pardon... not except salvation..

Yep... sad.

What's worse.. what would really be worse.. Is all the Christians who are persecuted for standing up for the name of their savior.. all their hours of prayer for the lost, hardship for the work of the body of Christ.. Listening to the words of Christ to "go into all the world and preach the gospel" or "Go and make disciples of men"... Until that end time where the gospel has been preached to all the world...

Only to find out.. everyone is going to be allowed in anyway..

What do you say to those who were recently decapitated on YouTube.. for the name of their savior... by men who will stand beside them with all the glory of paradise, with them, for eternity...

Who is sad now?

What we are saying doesn't undo, or disrespect, any of that.

 

[Saint Steven]

What on earth does that have to do with anything?


It doesn't even matter if I believe in God.. to you... Why would this be of any concern... even to this thread?

Sorry. I didn't mean to disturb your unhappiness. - lol

 

[JacksBratt]

It does matter. Just not for the reasons you think.
This is why I emphasize the importance of understanding that we are saved in the HERE AND NOW. Salvation isn't ONLY some future event that we await in order to escape this earth some day. Salvation is LIFE NOW.

Of course we are saved now... But, that doesn't mean that we live a life of bliss.

We will be persecuted also... outside of the normal things that everyone goes through living in this world.. like hurricanes, tornadoes, mass shootings, cancer.. you name it...

However, Jesus knew and told us that we would be hated and we would face persecution.. He told us that the world would hate us because it first hated Him..

Yet.. you believe that you are going to be sitting on a bench in heaven chatting with Anton LaVey... Sure.. good luck with that.

 

[JacksBratt]

What we are saying doesn't undo, or disrespect, any of that.

That... makes no sense...

 

[JacksBratt]

Sorry. I didn't mean to disturb your unhappiness. - lol

I never said that I wasn't happy.... That is putting words in my mouth..

I said that I face the same trials, obstacles and troubles of this world... as any non believer..

AND.... I get ridiculed and persecuted for my faith...

So, you disturbed nothing.

I'm beginning to think that this is just a joke...

 

[Saint Steven]

Yet.. you believe that you are going to be sitting on a bench in heaven chatting with Anton LaVey... Sure.. good luck with that.

Hard to imagine, but what if Anton LaVey showed up at your church and got right with God? You were wary initially, which is understandable. But after months of growing in Christ, anyone could see the transformation. At what point would you receive him in fellowship as a brother in Christ? Would you sit on the bench and talk to him then? Or reject him on the basis of previous sin?

 

[Saint Steven]

I never said that I wasn't happy.... That is putting words in my mouth..

I said that I face the same trials, obstacles and troubles of this world... as any non believer..

AND.... I get ridiculed and persecuted for my faith...

So, you disturbed nothing.

I'm beginning to think that this is just a joke...

I can empathize. I get ridiculed and persecuted for my faith as well. (from other Christians) Unbelievers are much more accepting of me.

 

[JacksBratt]

Hard to imagine, but what if Anton LaVey showed up at your church and got right with God? You were wary initially, which is understandable. But after months of growing in Christ, anyone could see the transformation. At what point would you receive him in fellowship as a brother in Christ? Would you sit on the bench and talk to him then? Or reject him on the basis of previous sin?

If, Anton LaVey, came into my church and got down on his knees and renounced his relationship with Satan and gave his heart to Christ... Even if I couldn't handle that.. God would..

It doesn't happen, however, after you die.. and your standing their at the foot of Jesus in all His power and glory looking around at how wrong you were... and deciding then.

We are saved by faith... not by standing in the vast presence of truth in our faces....

 

[JacksBratt]

I can empathize. I get ridiculed and persecuted for my faith as well. (from other Christians) Unbelievers are much more accepting of me.

Ya think?...

You're basically saying that faith in Christ is a waste of time and energy.. ridicule and persecution.

The persecution that you get from Christians.... is not persecution.. it's correction...out of love.. and total flabbergasted compassion to correct your apostate view..

Another poster here, and myself, already conversed about the errors we make when we chastize fellow Christians for different views...

But, this view of the gospel is like what happens to a sock when it's in a tight wet boot and you take the boot off.. and the sock is stretched and wet and inside out....

 

[Saint Steven]

If, Anton LaVey, came into my church and got down on his knees and renounced his relationship with Satan and gave his heart to Christ... Even if I couldn't handle that.. God would..

It doesn't happen, however, after you die.. and your standing their at the foot of Jesus in all His power and glory looking around at how wrong you were... and deciding then.

We are saved by faith... not by standing in the vast presence of truth in our faces....

So you weren't saved by faith... standing in the vast presence of truth in your face?

Besides, Jesus went and proclaimed himself to those in Hades between his crucifixion and resurrection. And one day every knee will bow and tongue acknowledge him, on earth, in heaven and under the earth. How can you say it's not possible when it has already happened?

 

[Saint Steven]

Ya think?...

You're basically saying that faith in Christ is a waste of time and energy.. ridicule and persecution.

The persecution that you get from Christians.... is not persecution.. it's correction...out of love.. and total flabbergasted compassion to correct your apostate view..

Another poster here, and myself, already conversed about the errors we make when we chastize fellow Christians for different views...

But, this view of the gospel is like what happens to a sock when it's in a tight wet boot and you take the boot off.. and the sock is stretched and wet and inside out....

There are three views of the final judgment. I have chosen a different view than you and most others. Yet I am treated as if I came from another planet. Go figure.

 

[nolidad]

Greek is now and has always been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking EOB translators, knows the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “aionios” and “kolasis?”
Note, in the EOB, Paul uses “αιωνιως/aionios,” in 1 Tim 1:17 synonymous with “αιδιος/aidios” in Rom 1:20, see below.

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.
___________
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
____________
1 Timothy 1:17 Now, to the eternal [των αιωνων/tōn aiōnōn] King. immortal. invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory unto ages of ages. Amen.
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf​

The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. If anyone chooses to consult the EOB version I suggest they read the preface which summarizes the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.
In 1 Tim 1:17 Paul not only uses "aionios" synonymous with "aidios," in Rom 1:20, but also defines it by pairing it with "immortal" in the same verse.

Thank you for deending my position against Fine Linen and St. Stephen. Now if they would only recognize these truths, all would be well!

 

[Der Alte]

So you weren't saved by faith... standing in the vast presence of truth in your face?
Besides, Jesus went and proclaimed himself to those in Hades between his crucifixion and resurrection. And one day every knee will bow and tongue acknowledge him, on earth, in heaven and under the earth. How can you say it's not possible when it has already happened?

This is incorrect. Nowhere does the Bible say Jesus went to or proclaimed anything in Hades.

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.​

Hades is never called prison and prison is never called Hades in the Bible.
The spirits in prison were the people of Noah's day and only eight souls, Noah and his family, were saved and they were alive when they were save not dead souls n Hades.
Jesus said what His earthly ministry was in Luk 4:18

Luke 4:18-19
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.​

Jesus ministry did not involve preaching to dead spirits in Hades.
The Greek word translated "captives" literally means prisoner(s) of war.
Neither Luk 4:18-19 nor Isa 42:7, which Jesus was quoting, say anything about dead spirits in Hades.

 

[nolidad]

I agree 100%. We all, at times, forget that these are brothers and sisters in Christ and I also have been guilty of ranting and venting to the point of being disrespectful of others.

Thanks for the reset.

Yeah me too. I use sarcasm as a tool of humopur and sometime my sarcasm can cross lines with some people. I just received a warning because I was a little too sarcastic with someone me thinks!