Salvation vs : service.

[Sidon]

What you’ve done here is given the born again a full access license to sin.

Oh i would never do that.
What i do however, is what you are not capable of doing on a Christian forum.
Which is....Im able to give God and the Blood of Jesus all the credit DUE THEM, <ALONE< for SALVATION.

You are not able to do this, because you are involved in self saving and trying not to lose your salvation.
And the reason you believe you can lose it, is because you do not Trust in Christ to keep you saved.
You trust in you.
This is why all you can talk about is how to lose it, and what you are doing to try not lose it.

 

[Sidon]

Don’t waste your time here because the Holy Spirit exposes you and your false gospel to those who seek and serve God. Get the behind the Sidon.

You're not the Holy Spirit.
And you're the exposed.
You're the one up on the Cross trying not to lose your salvation.
Im the one writing all the Threads, giving God and Son all the credit do them, for what they offer as "the Gift of Salvation".
Im the one posting all the Threads that lift up the Cross and Give GLORY to the Blood of JESUS, which is the Gospel of the Grace of God.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I think that is a distortion of the OP's message, and can imagine a similar charge against Paul. Paul dealt with this charge in the Romans quote you posted a few replies up: "May it never be!"

Have you considered that you cannot be preaching the same message as Paul if you are NOT accused of this? I don't think so. Many are ashamed of the "gospel of the grace of God" and do not want to be persecuted for it. Just like Paul said of preaching circumcision or "The man who does these things shall live by them" (which he said is "not of faith"), preaching to self-righteous flesh does not bring persecution:

"As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ."--Gal. 6:12

Isn't the Cross of Christ what the OP continues to magnify above all else?

I don't see how "free gift", "apart from works", "ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise" means anything in your theology. You've collected all the warnings, assume (incorrectly) they = loss of salvation and then use them to seemingly nullify the grace of God. I hope that is not the case.

From Romans 5:

"Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."

No, we are not to "sin that grace may abound". And yet...grace does abound nonetheless. Paradoxical but true.

I wasn’t quoting the OP, the post I quoted was by very definition advocating a license to sin. That is irrefutable. Do you believe that a person can sin all they want after being born again and they are saved no matter what they do? If that were true then John 15:6 would be an impossibility.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Oh i would never do that.
What i do however, is what you are not capable of doing on a Christian forum.
Which is....Im able to give God and the Blood of Jesus all the credit DUE THEM, <ALONE< for SALVATION.

That’s exactly what you’ve done by saying that God does not charge sin to a person once they are born again. If God does not charge a born again person with sin then they are free to do whatever they want including rejecting Christ and worshipping satan as these are both sins.

 

[BNR32FAN]

God never accepts your works to accept you.
So, once you step into the deceived mindset of : "here is what im doing for God to keep me", you have left faith in Christ that God only accepts to save you and keep you saved.

I never said God accepts our works for acceptance or salvation, that’s a misrepresentation of what I said.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You're not the Holy Spirit.
And you're the exposed.
You're the one up on the Cross trying not to lose your salvation.
Im the one writing all the Threads, giving God and Son all the credit do them, for what they offer as "the Gift of Salvation".
Im the one posting all the Threads that lift up the Cross and Give GLORY to the Blood of JESUS, which is the Gospel of the Grace of God.

Like you said yourself the evil one tells half truths, 50% truth and 50% lies.

 

[setst777]

Yes, I agree. Even so, Paul was admonishing the born again Christians about this very thing, with the warning that if they continued in sin, they would be lost. Paul taught this in His Gentile Gospel in many Passages throughout all his letters to the Churches.

For instance:

Romans 11:20-22 (WEB) 20 True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

Hebrews 4:11 (WEB)
11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that Rest, lest anyone fall after the same example of disobedience.

Hebrews 4:1 (WEB)
Let us fear therefore, lest perhaps anyone of you should seem to have come short of a promise of entering into his Rest.

1 Timothy 4:16 (WEB)
16 Pay attention to yourself and to your teaching. Continue in these things, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

I could quote tons more Passages like this, and already have. What do you do with these Pauline Gospel warnings and the possibility of losing salvation?

What do you mean by saying:

"how to stop sinning and confessing"?

I agree that Christ gives you the victory. Christ himself taught the Gentile Church, in the Book of Revelation, that we have that victory by Christ through continued faithfulness demonstrated by following Him into a holy life of righteousness.

Revelation 2:10-11 (WEB) 10 Be faithful to death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies. He who overcomes will not be harmed by the second death.

Revelation 3:1-5 (WEB) “I know your works, that you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up and keep the things that remain, which you were about to throw away, for I have found no works of yours perfected before my God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it and repent. If therefore you won’t watch, I will come as a thief, and you won’t know what hour I will come upon you. 4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that didn’t defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3:11-12 (WEB)
11 I am coming quickly! Hold firmly that which you have, so that no one takes your crown.

Look at those Passages, and you tell me; what do they mean to you?

When you reply, give your answer in the context of those Passages. Please do not just ignore the words of Lord Jesus and give your own spin, as if that were an answer.

Keep in mind that I also believe in the Cross and Blood of Lord Jesus. I believe in the free gift of salvation by God's grace. However, how we define these terms must agree with all the NT Gospel revelation.

If your, or my, understanding of the free gift of salvation is not in agreement with all the Scriptures, then we must carefully consider again our beliefs to make sure our understanding aligns with God's Word, or else, what is the sense of claiming Christianity at all?

My understanding is that the free gift of salvation cannot be earned by anything we do. However, as Scripture teaches, if we repent, and place a Gospel Faith in Lord Jesus, then this faith is not a work, but is how we access that free gift of salvation that God offers to us.

That faith in Lord Jesus, if true, means we have now denied the old life, and have now committed to follow Lord Jesus as our rightful Sovereign into a holy life of righteousness and love. We do not earn salvation by works, but the faith God accepts is one in which we repent, and then give our allegiance to Lord Jesus, following Him. This is what the Scriptures keep teaching.

Paul does not teach that sinning , as a Christian, sends you to hell.

Did you see the Scriptures I quoted from Paul? Paul was teaching the Gentile Church that their sins can condemn them. I provided some of those Scriptures, which you just flat out ignored.

He teaches that not being born again, is why you end up with the Devil.

Can you please show me the Passages where Paul teaches about being born again?

Jesus teaches this as "you must be born again", and he's not talking about Water

Being born again is only for the Jews under the Law according to your belief. Lord Jesus, as you say, was teaching Nicodemus, who was a Jew under the law, before Lord Jesus was crucified and rose again, and so has nothing to do with the Gentile Gospel.

What Paul does teach is that if you are born again, and you go back into total carnality and wont turn from it, you will "die".

Where does Paul teach this? Do you think Paul, using "die" in the a context regarding salvation has anything to with physical death, since all people die?

But you'll die born again, as this can't be changed.

Can you show me the Scriptures that teach that being born again can't be changed?

Why? Because a person is born again, they are always born again.

That is circular reasoning. Can you show me the Scriptures that teach that being born again can't be changed?

why? Because the behavior does not affect Spiritual BIRTH.

Can you show me the Scriptures that teach that behavior does not affect Spiritual BIRTH?

 

[Ligurian]

Ephesians 1:14 doesn't say redeemed.

"Let us take some time to identify the House of Israel. Here is a brief summary: From the sons of Jacob, surnamed Israel, sprang twelve tribes under David. They were united as one nation—Israel. After the death of Solomon, David’s son, the twelve tribes were divided into two nations.

The tribe of Judah split off from the nation of Israel in order to retain the king whom Israel had rejected, and Benjamin went with Judah. Those two tribes were together, Benjamin and Judah.

The new nation, formed with its capitol of Jerusalem, was known as the House of Judah. Its people were called Jews. The Northern Ten Tribes, who rejected Solomon’s son, became known as the House of Israel and their capitol later was Samaria. Whole books of the Old Testament are devoted to the power struggles between Israel and Judah, showing them as two separate nations."
Where Did The Original Apostles Go?

House of Israel. = Jews.

Currently God is specifically dealing with the "Time of the Gentiles".
This "time" is going to end, and God will resume His dealing with the "chosen".
This is the Grt Trib.

Only Luke uses that phrase upon which you're hanging your hat, and you had to rip that out of context to make it theology. Sadly, you're not alone in doing so. However, you must be the only seminary guy who doesn't know that the "Kingdom of Judah" is entirely separate from the "Lost Sheep" of the "Ten Lost Tribes of Israel". Jews/Judah were never lost sheep.

Kingdom of Israel (northern)
Kingdom of Judah (southern)
Omrides - Wikipedia

The word "Jews" in the Bible seems to have come back with them from Babylon. I suspect it's a Chaldean word because of Daniel 3:8-12, since 2:4-7:28 are written in Aramaic. But in no case are the whole 12 tribes "of Judah" aka Jews. And I'm going to continue pointing this out to you. If this is the sort of attention you wanted, by all means continue to be wrong.

 

[Psalm 27]

Jesus: ‘The Lamb of God, Who takes away the sins of the world’

He removes the sin, delivers the sinner, so that they abhor evil...
He who is able... Jude 1:24-25

 

[Ligurian]

So Jesus said we must endure to the end and your saying that we don’t have to.

Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. 11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Not to be saved.

To be saved is to be born again.
You don't "endure that'.....You receive it......as salvation is a "GIFT".

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

So you would rather contradict Christ’s own words rather than humble yourself and admit your mistake. Up until now I’ve been thinking that you are simply confused about how to understand God’s word but now I’m starting to think that your errors are intentional and you are here to lead Christ’s sheep astray. Don’t waste your time here because the Holy Spirit exposes you and your false gospel to those who seek and serve God. Get the behind the Sidon.

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, John 12:48-50, John 10:5, Deuteronomy 13:1-3

You're not the Holy Spirit.
And you're the exposed.
You're the one up on the Cross trying not to lose your salvation.
Im the one writing all the Threads, giving God and Son all the credit do them, for what they offer as "the Gift of Salvation".
Im the one posting all the Threads that lift up the Cross and Give GLORY to the Blood of JESUS, which is the Gospel of the Grace of God.

What does "lift up the Cross" signify? Do you want people to make idols?
And what does "Give GLORY to the Blood of JESUS" mean?

 

[setst777]

Jesus: ‘The Lamb of God, Who takes away the sins of the world’

He removes the sin, delivers the sinner, so that they abhor evil...
He who is able... Jude 1:24-25

Jesus is the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world. However, only those who believe in Jesus, walking in the light, are the ones cleansed from all sin.

1 John 1:6-7 (WEB) 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and don’t tell the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

How is God able to keep from falling in Jude 24-25?

In “Jude 24” who is the “us/them” and “you" that God is able to keep from stumbling?

The “us/them” and “you" are those who believe demonstrated by keeping ourselves in God's love.

Jude 21 (WEB) 21 Keep yourselves in God’s love, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.

• "Keep yourselves in God's love" is a command to those who believe.
• The believer is responsible to keep himself in God's love.

So, who are the ones that God is able to keep from falling?

The answer:

Jude 21 (WEB) 21 Keep yourselves in God’s love, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life

How do we keep, or remain, in God's love?

John 15:9-10 (WEB)
9 Even as the Father has loved me, I also have loved you. Remain (abide) in my love.
10 If you keep my commandments, you will remain (abide) in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and remain (abide) in his love.

Therefore, as we keep ourselves in God’s love by faithfully following Lord Jesus, obeying Him, God is able to keep us from stumbling.

Does God guarantee that you will keep yourself in God's love? No such Scripture exists. YOU are responsible to remain in Lord Jesus by faithfully obeying HIM. This is the Faith we are responsible for before God, in which, God is able to keep us from falling.

God gives the believer the victory. A believer is one who follows Lord Jesus by living and walking by His Spirit who indwells us by faith. These are the ones the Spirit leads to victory over sin.

Romans 8:12-14 (WEB)
12 So then, brothers and sisters, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if you live after the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are children of God.

We are children of God by faith in Lord Jesus. What happens if we fall away from the faith by giving into temptations? Well, we are no longer in the faith; we are no longer living by the Spirit. The ones who possess life, are those who live by the Spirit – putting to death the misdeeds of the body (verse 13).

Therefore, those who have a Gospel Faith, living by the Spirit who indwells them, are the children of God.

Galatians 3:26 (WEB) 26 For you are all children of God, through faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 4:6 (WEB) 6 And because you are children, God sent out the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, “Abba, Father!”

 

[Ligurian]

Being born again is only for the Jews under the Law according to your belief. Lord Jesus, as you say, was teaching Nicodemus, who was a Jew under the law, before Lord Jesus was crucified and rose again, and so has nothing to do with the Gentile Gospel.

Exactly, thank you! And only John and Peter say "born again"...
John 3:3-8 has been ripped out of context and pasted whereEVER.
So now, I suppose 1 Peter 1:23-25 will suffer a similar treatment.

1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an Apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers Diaspora scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia... 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. ... 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
2:10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. ... 12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by [your] good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

1 Peter 2:10 is quoting Hosea 2:23 from what was written about the "children of Israel", not the "children of Juda". So... is it a stretch to think that Peter's from the lost sheep of the house of Israel? and then so is Andrew... Matthew 4:18-22, Matthew 10:6-7...

I don't think it's a strech at all, because of this prophecy:
"in the place where it was said to them, Ye are not My people, even they shall be called the sons of the living God"...
"in the place" is literally the land from which they were taken by the Assyrians.

And here, prophecy is fulfilled: Matthew 4:13-17.
These "sons of the living God" are Galilean Disciples upon whom light is sprung up: The Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven taught by Jesus, the Son of God.
Matthew 4:16-17 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

And there's a difference between Judah and Israel... because not all of Jacob's children are Judah, so not all 12 tribes are Jews... don't fall into that trap, either, OK?

Osee 1:6 And she conceived again, and bore a daughter. And he said to him, Call her name, Unpitied: for I will no more have mercy on the house of Israel, but will surely set myself in array against them. 7 But I will have mercy on the house of Juda, and will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them with bow, nor with sword, nor by war, nor by horses, nor by horsemen. 8 And she weaned Unpitied; and she conceived again, and bore a son. 9 And he said, Call his name, Not My people: for ye are not My people, and I am not your God. 10 Yet the number of the children of Israel was as the sand of the sea, which shall not be measured nor numbered: and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, Ye are not My people, even they shall be called the sons of the living God.LXX

 

[Sidon]

Do you believe that a person can sin all they want after being born again and they are saved no matter what they do?[/QUOTE]

Learn what 1 John 3:9 is teaching.
Found out why the "body is dead because of sin" but the Spirit is LIFE because of Righteousness".
Learn why the "New Creation" "in Christ" is this...

"As Jesus is, so are the born again in this world".

Read my Threads.
Study them.
Then you'll know.

 

[Sidon]

That’s exactly what you’ve done by saying that God does not charge sin to a person once they are born again

That is Romans 4:8.
Im not Romans 4:8, im just the teacher who teaches the verse that says that God does not charge sin to the Born again, because He's already charged all of them to CHRIST ON THE CROSS.

This is "Pauline Theology.
This is "the preaching of the Cross".
Its the teaching of "The Gift of Salvation" and what that means as "The Gift of Righteousness".

 

[Sidon]

Like you said yourself the evil one tells half truths, 50% truth and 50% lies.

Yes, all dark lights will try to lie to real believers.
Here are some of their lies.
"you can lose your salvation"
"you have to keep commandments and endure to the end", to save yourself, as Christ's blood has no power to do it.

You recognize this person and this : Galatians 1:8 ?
These people are "enemies of the Cross".

This means that they reject God's Grace and try to replace it with the Devil's Gospel, which is the "gospel of works and self effort".

They teach it like this. "The Cross, + Self effort

The Cross, + Commandment keeping.

See that "+" ?
That is the devil's gospel of trying to diminish the Blood of Jesus, and the Crucifixion of Christ, by trying to substitute the finished work of Jesus on the Cross, with the old covenant, the Law of Moses, and commandment keeping.

 

[Sidon]

Paul was teaching the Gentile Church that their sins can condemn them.

Paul does not teach that.
Paul teaches this regarding all the born again.

"there is now NO CONDEMNATiON to those who are IN Christ".

 

[Sidon]

Only Luke uses that phrase upon which you're hanging your hat,

Paul is the "apostle to the gentiles" in the "time of the Gentiles".
This isnt going to change to suit your unbelief or personal theology.

The Gospel in the "time of the Gentiles' is "the preaching of the Cross".
This is not going to change simply because you can't stand the reality that the apostle to the gentiles wrote all the doctrine for the NT Church and most of the NT as well.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That is Romans 4:8.
Im not Romans 4:8, im just the teacher who teaches the verse that says that God does not charge sin to the Born again, because He's already charged all of them to CHRIST ON THE CROSS.

This is "Pauline Theology.
This is "the preaching of the Cross".
Its the teaching of "The Gift of Salvation" and what that means as "The Gift of Righteousness".

The problem is that verse does not say that God does not charge sin to a born again person who is willfully sinning. That’s not even close to what that verse says. You’ve added so much to that verse that is not stated.

“Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.””
‭‭Romans‬ ‭4:8‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Nothing in this verse indicates that a person who has turned away from God will not be charged with sin. You’ve added all that to the verse by your own imagination.

 

[setst777]

I think that is a distortion of the OP's message, and can imagine a similar charge against Paul. Paul dealt with this charge in the Romans quote you posted a few replies up: "May it never be!"

I agree with you that Paul dealt with the charge in Romans 6. What exactly was Paul instructing the believers in Romans 6?

Romans 6:1-5 (ESV) What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.

I don’t know how you view these verses but, what I understand from what Paul is teaching here is that those who believe [“we” “us”] in Lord Jesus are to express their faith by no longer living in sin (verse 2), that is, if we hope to be united with Lord Jesus in the resurrection.

So a true believer in Lord Jesus demonstrates his faith by no longer living in sin if he hopes to be united with Lord Jesus in the resurrection.

I don't see how "free gift", "apart from works", "ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise" means anything in your theology. You've collected all the warnings, assume (incorrectly) they = loss of salvation and then use them to seemingly nullify the grace of God. I hope that is not the case.

We are all in agreement if you hold to the truth of Scripture that those who claim faith in Lord Jesus are no longer to live in sin. Only these are saved.

From Romans 5:

"Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."

No, we are not to "sin that grace may abound". And yet...grace does abound nonetheless. Paradoxical but true.

That is not paradoxical. All Paul is teaching here is that, all the sins we (believers) committed before faith in Lord Jesus, and even those we may commit in weakness or ignorance even as we believe, we are now cleansed of by faith in Lord Jesus, but only if we express our faith by walking in the light, which is to say, no longer living in sin.

1 John 1:7 (ESV) 7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

 

[setst777]

Paul does not teach that.
Paul teaches this regarding all the born again.

"there is now NO CONDEMNATiON to those who are IN Christ".

We are in Christ by faith.