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Featured Saints who Protect

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Natsumi Lam, Apr 9, 2019.

  1. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    Following only what is clearly and specifically spelled out in Scripture minus anything else actually would me a tradition of men, Gideon. And would lead us to have to seriously debate / call into question things like the Holy Trinity, the nature and deity of Christ, the fate of our souls after death, and what salvation is and what it means. The exact same debates that embroiled those fighting against error in the first few hundred years of Christian history, and which the Reformers themselves could not agree on.
     
  2. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    Fortunately, that's not what the Catholic and Orthodox practice is about.
     
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  3. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    They are already in God's presence. They are asking for Him to avenge their deaths... Not those still alive on earth.
     
  4. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla Well-Known Member

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    I don't have a patron saint and have never directed petitions to them or sought their aid and I've never been told to do so by the Holy Spirit. I address my prayers to the Father. The absence of prayers to saints haven't hindered His healing, blessings, provision, favor, and grace. I'm overflowing in each. :)
     
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  5. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    Wow. Something tells me folks in heaven have better things to do than brew in resentment.
     
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  6. ChicanaRose

    ChicanaRose Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 6:10
    They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?"

    Of course, these are martyrs, not someone who fell asleep peacefully of old age.
     
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  7. ChicanaRose

    ChicanaRose Well-Known Member

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    Right, at the minimum, they are not necessary.
     
  8. ChicanaRose

    ChicanaRose Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps we need to prioritize the communion of saints here on earth. If we cannot overcome our differences and practice bearing with one another in our daily living (Eph, 2:14, Col. 3:13), what business do we have communing with the saints in heaven?

    Reference
    Hastings, C Brownlow. “The Communion of Saints in Light of the Baptist Tradition.” Southwestern Journal of Theology 28, no.2 (1986).
     
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  9. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    Whether we ask the saints to pray for us or not, we have communion with them, not owing to our agreement here on earth, by by confessing the faith once delivered to the saints.
     
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  10. ChicanaRose

    ChicanaRose Well-Known Member

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    From what I understand, the Lutheran practice of communion of saints does not involve invocation to those in heaven.

    You honor them in a sense that you give thanksgiving to God for their examples, and seek to emulate them.

    Source:
    Persaud, Winston D. “A Lutheran Reflection on The One Mediator, The Saints, and Mary in Relation to the Question: How Do Lutherans Understand Prayer for Other People?” Dialog 52, no.1 (2013)
     
  11. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    Yes, but it's important to emphasize we do not deny that the saints in heaven pray for us, because this can be found attested to in the early Church and does not contradict the Scriptures. We do not consider asking them to pray for us to necessarily be idolatry or necromancy, it's simply something we do not teach.
     
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  12. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Rude and hotty!!

    Ironic that you quote this verse. You seem to have your eyes firmly shut and your ears blocked to any reasonable response you are being given.
     
  13. R. Genevieve

    R. Genevieve Member

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    This is what I have gathered.

    Technically speaking, it is not prayer to the saints, it is intercession. Catholics, Orthodox Christians, and even some Anglicans see it as no different than asking a living person to pray. Since Christ defeated death (and based on information gathered from the passages in Revelation that have already been mentioned), martyrs and other dead saints are only physically dead. Their souls are in heaven, where they continue to pray for those who are still alive on Earth.

    Some saints are seen as having a particular concern for people of different occupations, from ethnic groups, or who are struggling with something in particular, just as a Christian on Earth might have a particular desire to help a certain group of people. (That's not to say they only help those people. That's just the community to where God has called them.) Usually there is some sort of reason for that saint to be considered the patron of a particular group that is based on that saint's own earthly life and experiences (e. g., St. Patrick is the patron saint of Irish people, both in Ireland and throughout the Irish diaspora, because he is historically credited with the Christianization of Ireland). From what I understand, though, their patronage doesn't mean they're the only saint who is praying for that person about whatever they're going through.

    Most Protestants are uncomfortable with practicing intercession (I say most because not every Protestant has such a problem with it). Some go so far as to call it idolatry, but most Catholics I know of are well aware of the theological difference between praying to God and asking a saint for prayer, so arguably it is different.

    I hope I've explained that well enough.
     
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  14. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    Dang, that was pretty good! Thank you!

    We do directly petition Saints (e.g. "Immaculate Mary, help us!"), but we still understand it as us requesting their help via prayer and intercession, through the authority and power God has given them in Christ. Just like a human being down here praying for deliverance for a person, and God hearing and honoring that request.

    You explained it really well, though! Cool!
     
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  15. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    Then why did i say i was going to research and possibly change my pov.
     
  16. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    You also said "pearls to swine", did you not?
     
  17. ChicanaRose

    ChicanaRose Well-Known Member

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    The thing is, you don't need to change your pov or agree with everyone to be accepted as their sister in Christ. We already agree on the first order doctrines, and things outside of these do not make someone more or less saved. If you decide you want to pray to the saints, I will still consider you my sister in Christ.
     
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  18. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    I've got a Protestant husband; at this point, this is essentially my attitude, too. If he doesn't do everything that I do, or feel that the Papacy is Scriptural, or read a Bible with 73 books in it, he's still my husband, he's still a Christian, I still love him, and we're still married.
     
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  19. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla Well-Known Member

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    I would never ask anyone to modify their point of view on spiritual matters. If I cannot agree with their perspective or feel we are too far apart I will remain pleasant and keep my boundaries in place.

    I won't tell someone they need to change their beliefs. I would avoid dating or developing a deeper connection if we were spiritually incompatible. :)
     
  20. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    Check the order of my posts. I will modify that post since you are offended.
     
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