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Featured Saints who Protect

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Natsumi Lam, Apr 9, 2019.

  1. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    Natsumi do you have any idea how many times we have heard these tiresome canards? It is you guys, Protestants that are unbibical because by saying this stuff you really are indirectly doing at least two things.

    1) The Church is one. Romans 12:5 and a few others, but you would never know that by insisting on this stuff you are actually making two Churches! One for the living and One for the dead.

    2) You are exaggerating the power of death, when Jesus did the opposite in the Gospels!


    1 Corinthians 15:55-57 New Living Translation (NLT)
    55 O death, where is your victory?
    O death, where is your sting?”

    56 For sin is the sting that results in death, and the law gives sin its power.57 But thank God! He gives us victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ.


    And besides that it just out and out false witness. If you actually look at what necromancy really was in the Bible. According to some of you Protestants, the Jews having the Moses seat, and setting a place for Elijah at the Passover would be committing necromancy!
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
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  2. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    We have prayer warrior friends down here on earth who, when we need some extra help, we can go to. Though we can and do petition God directly, we also often ask wise, spiritually mature, prayerful friends in Christ to pray for and help us.

    The Saints, Christians alive with and because of Christ in Heaven, are still our friends, and rooting for us, as it were, while we follow Christ on earth.

    Paul, in Hebrews, calls the Old Testament Saints a "cloud of witnesses" who "surround" us, are with us, see us, and are cheering us on. How much more so the Saints of the New Covenant?

    Those who die in Christ never really die. And in and because of Him, we are One.

    John 11:25-26

    John 17:20-24

    Hebrews 11:1-40, Hebrews 12:1

    Everthing the Saints do for us, is because God does it through them, just as He worked miracles through the Apostles when they were on earth. That God works through them or helps us through them does not diminish who God is. Rather, they give glory to Him.
     
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  3. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother?

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    It's a vague and meaningless expression which I can find in only a small number of the plethora of English translations of Sacred Scripture.

    The other translations look to be more precise, mentioning necromancers specifically, mediums specifically, soothsayers specifically and/or wizards specifically. Even translations which opt for a more general phraseology tend to emphasize "consult[ing] the dead".

    As with so many Protestant doctrines, the only way traditional Christian practice can be forced to fit that description is either by intentionally misrepresenting traditional Christian practice or by changing the definition of words into meaningless vagaries.

    So. Try again.
     
  4. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    Overall the stuff with the saints is important not for the stuff you mention in the OP, but for the stuff you don't mention. Many Protestants have an individualistic faith, they see things are between "them and Jesus". And there is some room for that in the Bible, but overall if you look at Bible in the context of Judaism etc. our Faith is actually more a group thing, than just us and Jesus. We are part of a Community of Faith, and that is part of our worship etc. going back to Judaism liturgical traditions but brought forward into the New Covenant.
     
  5. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    You know "try again" is rude and hotty right?
     
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  6. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    My guess is that saints protect you the same way that angels do or that God does.
     
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  7. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    It doesnt have power and is meaningless because it is only mentioned a few times?

    Is that even logical?
     
  8. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Isnt arguing with saints in this world, over saints in the next world, and expecting good to come, isnt it like shooting yourself in the foot?
     
  9. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    So true...the blind leading the blind at best
     
  10. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    It would be super, super helpful for some Christians to get a very basic understanding of how the first Christians understood the meaning of Scripture, and how they prayed, believed, and lived their faith prior to Scripture being declared Scripture. :sigh:
     
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  11. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    Placing Tradition over Truth...even one verse in the bible...and you are bound to trip up.
     
  12. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    Some of us do.

    Some of us enjoy the Socratic method.
     
  13. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    Yeah.

    You know that all power comes from God, right? So, if a saint who is passed from this life into the presence of God is able to help us who are here, then the help is by the power of God, right?
     
  14. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    I have a bible.
     
  15. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    How can you test if a saint has healed you? How can you see their fruits?
     
  16. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    Try praying to one? I'm not joking. Try it.
     
  17. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    That doesnt answer my questions.
     
  18. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    When someone has a medically incurable form of cancer in the fourth stage, and a saint who is in heaven is asked to pray to God for that person's disease to be cured, and that is exactly what happens, you have then seen the fruits of the prayers of the one who was asked to pray.

    I've seen such fruits produced, and so have many of us. That's how we know that God is with us, and with His saints.

    Of course we don't have to ask for their prayers, but to most of us it doesn't make any sense not to, since we know that their prayers are indeed heard and answered by our Lord.
     
  19. Monk Brendan

    Monk Brendan Well-Known Member Supporter

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    When the military or law enforcement officers protect you, does this diminish the divinity of God? (Their heavenly patron, btw, is the Archangel Michael.)

    Who was the one depicted on the medal?

    If you think the saints who have gone before us can't help us through their prayers, we of the pre-reformation churches know better.
     
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  20. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother?

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    Did you mean "haughty"?

    The majority of English translations used different and more precise phraseology for that particular passage. For that reason, those translations are far more trustworthy than the vague, nonsensical hodge-podge you posted.

    Iow, yes, I am saying the translation you carefully chose is meaningless.

    Inventing doctrines out of whole cloth based on spurious translations of scripture and you are bound to be in error.

    Shall we call it even?
     
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