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Featured Saints who Protect

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Natsumi Lam, Apr 9, 2019.

  1. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    I'm overflowing with sinfulness and worthlessness, and if ever there is anything good to be found in me or to come from me it is only by the grace of God working in me.

    God's saints are, by His grace, full of His Love that He has for all of us, and they pray for our salvation whether we know it or not (i.e. are ignorant of the reality of their doing it), and whether we believe it or not (i.e. refuse to accept it as true). If you are overflowing in each of these blessings, as you say, then it could well be that God has answered their prayers for you.

    Overflowing with Godly blessings would also mean "overflowing with Godly humility" (Galatians 5:22-23), which would cause us not to credit ourselves and our own prayers, or to have such high regard for ourselves and our prayers, as to discredit the power of the prayers of the righteous (James 5:16)

    Incidentally, I pray directly to God the Father too (not to mention the Son, and the Holy Spirit). But it never hurts to seek prayers for oneself from saints, both those still here on earth and those who have passed from death to Life and whose spirits are with the Lord. (Philippians 1:21-24)
     
  2. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla Well-Known Member

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    Or a reflection of the things I've been told to pray instead. That's how I pray. :)

    I would suppose your remarks are directed towards the Holy Spirit since I'm praying as He directs and I've never been told to direct my petitions elsewhere.
     
  3. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    Thanks, I only ask for now is that you give thought to what is meant in 2 Corinthians 3:18, "from glory to glory", and what the limits might be of this transformation of us by the Holy Spirit when our sinful flesh is no longer a factor in hindering our Communion with God (i.e. our "being one with God").

    I'm sorry to use a term that you feel is unfair. Perhaps it is. I know with absolute certainty that I privately asked the mother of our Lord, Jesus Christ, to pray to her Son and our God that a certain woman who had a medically incurable and fatal disease be cured of it. I also know that God did cure her, because the woman's incurable sickness disappeared without a trace. Therefor, I know that many of our Bible studying brothers and sisters in Christ, in spite of their dedication to Scripture, do greatly misunderstand the extent to which true followers of Christ are deified by the grace (uncreated power/energy) of God, which is imparted by the Holy Spirit by the will of the Father and decree of the Son. I know that if God wills it, His holy ones can hear us when we ask for their prayers.
     
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  4. ChicanaRose

    ChicanaRose Well-Known Member

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    I see what you are saying. I just think that God is so gracious even in our imperfections, that we can go to Him saying, "Abba Father." I've had God answer my prayers even when I made a terrible mistake (nowhere near a saint). He doesn't always answer based on the merit of a righteousness but out of His great mercy. But then, that's just my personal experience, which is just as valid as your own.
     
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  5. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    Yes, to be able to truly say "Abba Father" is a gift of the Holy Spirit, and worthy of joyful thanksgiving (which is also a gift of the Holy Spirit).

    Glory to God!
     
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  6. Cis.jd

    Cis.jd Well-Known Member

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    Because it first answers your understanding of death. As you've shown in your post quoting Deut 18. This tells you that the saint isn't dead but alive spiritually.

    Take a look at this way. In Protestant churches who have youths and various groups, there is always a big brother/sister type of facilitator who helps keep relationship between the group and their spiritual growth going? Why are you ok with that when God should be the sole-protector or gatherer, etc? Why because their role in leading you is their service to God so likewise with the Saint.

    You see your demands for a verse stating something specific is logically hypocritical. As you said here: "The bible never mentions those in the afterlife people"..

    Well, does the Bible say that God's blessings is limited to our physical life only?
    Why is it that people who live in earth have more authority and capabilities than people who are actually in the presence of God. Is the flesh above the spirit now?

    The best argument a Protestant should stick with is probably better evidence on this being real, with out the Bible because you can see the scriptural references to these old beliefs (whether you agree with it or not).
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
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  7. Unnamed Guy

    Unnamed Guy Member

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    That is called an image and it is a pagan tradition. It does not matter if you call it a "reminder" or "protector" or anything else. All images are forbidden by God. For Christians it is a little different because Christians don't sin. For a Christian to carry an image is merely a dum thing to do.
     
  8. Loyce KG

    Loyce KG Everyone MUST hear the gospel of Christ!

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    "We do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us then with confidence” — because of Christ — “draw near to the throne of grace” — not to Mary, not to the saints — “that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need” (Hebrews 4:15–16) Christ is the one mediator between God and man not saints or Mary.

    if you can’t approach Christ as a compassionate and faithful high priest who will intercede for us, we need mediators between us and Christ himself. This skewed view comes from lessened knowledge about Christ being the savior of mankind. Those who believe in Him, have the Holy Spirit who helps us in our weakness and in intercession (Romans 8:25-27)
     
  9. Loyce KG

    Loyce KG Everyone MUST hear the gospel of Christ!

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    Umm, I believe scripture has all the answers we need and those we don't have scriptural support for, are kept hidden for a purpose (Deuteronomy 29:29).

    The church did not come to embrace the doctrine of the Trinity because there is a sentence in the Bible that says: "there is one God existing as three persons equal in divine essence, but distinct in personhood." There is no sentence like that in the Bible. Rather the reason the church has embraced this doctrine is because the Bible unwaveringly speaks of one true God, not three Gods, and yet reveals the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit as God, and as distinct persons. So it is with salvation and the others mentioned. We have a biblical guide on how to pray, who intercedes for whom, who our advocate and high priest is. There is no scriptural support for praying to those who have slept in Christ. But then again, one would have to hold scripture as the sole authority.
     
  10. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Mary and the Saints are intercessors, just like anyone else you ask to pray for you.
    Strawman. Christ is the only mediator, but we can have any number of intercessors. This is blessed by God because it builds up love between all members of His body.
     
  11. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    There is 2000 years of abundant good fruit giving support.
     
  12. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    It seems like the whole conflict revolves around the fallacy that people dont die but live after even being murdered. This is the foundation of the concept that it is ok to talk to these "live" people.
     
  13. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    How can you judge the character and fruit of those who are no longer here?
     
  14. Loyce KG

    Loyce KG Everyone MUST hear the gospel of Christ!

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    And how do you judge this?
     
  15. Loyce KG

    Loyce KG Everyone MUST hear the gospel of Christ!

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    The deceased are not intercessors. I never ask the late to pray for me. I ask those who can see what am going through and can talk back to me. If the spirit reveals something to them or they need to encourage me, it's easy. However, am not here to change your mind.
     
  16. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    By the miracles which occur through their prayers.
     
  17. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    My experience and the experience of millions of Orthodox Christians says otherwise.
     
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  18. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    I think that people instinctively know that they need spiritual help to be complete. All are searching for an emptiness in our soul.. This is for the Holy Spirit and He completes us.

    Satan has deceived people to believe that these "spirit guides" and other entities, are righteous.. when they are evil..

    People being searchers... and having no guidance.... fall into his trap.

    I also believe that many mental illnesses are actually demonic in nature.

    I have read a bit about the "Spirit of Jezebel" and it is scary.
     
  19. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    This seems to presume that if we ask prayers of others, or of saints, that we don't ask Christ Himself. This is not the case whatsoever, however.
     
  20. FenderTL5

    FenderTL5 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    even the Apostles instructed us to pray for one another.

    The skewed view and "lessened knowledge" is to conflate intercession with that of Christ as the one Mediator.
    I suppose if you only see a relationship with God in juridical terms then it's understandable.

    Christ is the one mediator between God and man because He is the only one who was both God and man. 100% God, 100% man and through this it opens the path to salvation through life in Him. This is what the Incarnation is all about.
    That has absolutely nothing to do with praying for one another. Saying a prayer for someone else, this is intercession. Jesus is the only, "One Mediator" but anyone can be an intercessor.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
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