Sabbath Obligation?

[BobRyan]

Well Paul was entering as somewhat of an authority where I am not.

Acts 23:6 But perceiving that one group were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, Paul began crying out in the Council, “Brethren, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees; I am on trial for the hope and resurrection of the dead!” 7 As he said this, there occurred a dissension between the Pharisees and Sadducees, and the assembly was divided. 8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, nor an angel, nor a spirit, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all. 9 And there occurred a great uproar; and some of the scribes of the Pharisaic party stood up and began to argue heatedly, saying, “We find nothing wrong with this man; suppose a spirit or an angel has spoken to him?”

Acts 13:15 After the reading of the Law and the Prophets the synagogue officials sent to them, saying, “Brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say it.”

If I could get that kind of instant leadership role whenever I stepped into a synagogue - I for sure would be there.

In fact Acts 18:4 "EVERY Sabbath" preaching the gospel to both gentiles and Jews in the synagogues.

hmmm... come to think of it.. where is the "every week-day-1" in the Bible regarding worship and Gospel preaching??

 

[Carl Emerson]

What has it got to do with authority when the real issue is obedience?

 

[BobRyan]

What has it got to do with authority when the real issue is obedience?

I did not say that I don't go to church on the Sabbath -

"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to bow down" Isaiah 66:23

I thought your question was about the Synagogue -- not about keeping Sabbath.

 

[Bob S]

I find it very ironic when SDAs tell us they "keep" the Sabbath or that we too must keep it. What is the standard for keeping the Sabbath? We are told we have to observe it, but never told quite what is appropriate. If I do not live up to the "standard" am I sinning and might just as well not even try to observe it? SDAs believe that if I don't observe it I will be lost. Does that pertain to those who fail to keep it according to the "standard" that they too will be lost?

If I were to ask a dozen Sabbath observers what the standard is for "keeping" it, would I get the same answer from all of them? From my experience with Sabbath keeping I would have to say that I would probably get twelve different opinions. My recollection of being out camping with the Pathfinder Club, Adventist equal to the scouts, that it was perfectly okay to pick up sticks for the fire on the Sabbath. Yet in the wilderness the man that picked up sticks was to be stoned to death.

Today, I have no concern what the "standard" would be for proper Sabbath observance because there is no such thing as a Christian Sabbath. In fact, since no one is under the ceremonial laws of the Sinai covenant no one is subject to the now defunct Sabbath standards.

 

[BobRyan]

I find it very ironic when SDAs tell us they "keep"

You have free will of course and can have any opinion you like.

If I were to ask a dozen Sabbath observers what the standard is for "keeping" it, would I get the same answer from all of them? ...

Today, I have no concern what the "standard" would be for proper Sabbath observance because there is no such thing ...

You can even have that sort of opinion

Is it your POV that only Seventh-day Adventists keep the Sabbath after all the posts you have seen on this area of the board? seriously??

 

[guevaraj]

were not required to keep the Sabbath as I've proven.

What is the standard for keeping the Sabbath?

Brothers, happy Sabbath! Is the Colossians passage your proof? I know that Bob sees that it includes the weekly Sabbath having already mentioned the monthly Sabbaths with the “festivals”, I believe him. However, the passage brings us back to the biblical Sabbath the Jews never fully understood. Read it in context and you will learn that it refers to “human commands” that replace God's commandments. Having specific instructions on how to keep it in Israel, they failed to remember the first Sabbath, to keep the Sabbath holy in places other than Israel. We can do better than Judaism to "remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy"!

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow. Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence. (Colossians 2:16-23 NIV)​

The Sabbath adopted from Judaism lacks God’s blessing over the Sunday tradition because it is also a human tradition and not the correct Biblical Sabbath. Jesus continues to grow us by helping us correct the “human commands” of Judaism, which “nullify the word of God by” the “traditions" that they “have handed down” to us.

I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. (John 16:12-14 NIV)​

I do not follow the “human commands” of Judaism about the Sabbath, they did not fully understand everything that God revealed about the Sabbath and they incorrectly keep the Sabbath in other places besides Israel. Here in the United States, the Sabbath falls at a different time than Israel. I have written a book on the subject titled: “Proof of God in the International Date Line: Site of our Origin”.

“You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” (Mark 7:8-13 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BobRyan]

Brothers, happy Sabbath! Is the Colossians passage your proof? I know that Bob sees that it includes the weekly Sabbath having already mentioned the monthly Sabbaths with the “festivals”, I believe him.

I for one never claimed that that the weekly Sabbath is even mentioned at all in Col 2 - rather it is the "Shadow Sabbaths" that are mentioned there - "Shadows of things to come" and in Col 2 Paul does not condemn the keeping of them - rather he affirms the pre-cross Matthew 7 "do not judge that you be not judged" rule that was true before the cross.... and also afterwards.

 

[Bob S]

I ask again, what is the standard for proper Sabbath observance. Seems like Bob Ryan is not interested in answering what he thinks. He feels free to ask questions, but never wants to give any answers to anyone else's. It seems Jorge is more interested in when to start the Sabbath than what should or what should not be done on Saturday.

Since both of you are SDA Ellen has a great deal of the way it should be kept. Testimonies for the Church Vol 6 chapter 44. My grandmother told me how the Methodist church in Virginia kept Sunday and the comparison of chapter 44 is about the same.

 

[BobRyan]

I ask again, what is the standard for proper Sabbath observance. Seems like Bob Ryan is not interested in answering

You have asked it about half a dozen times and I have answered it about half a dozen times.. it always comes out as me giving this same answer.

Ex 20:8-11 - day of rest
Lev 23:2-3 - day of holy convocation
Isaiah 58:13 - day to avoid secular pursuits
Isaiah 66:23 - a day to come before God and worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath"

Then we wait about 6 months and you ask again as if the answer was never posted.

were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You have asked it about half a dozen times and I have answered it about half a dozen times.. it always comes out as me giving this same answer.

Ex 20:8-11 - day of rest
Lev 23:2-3 - day of holy convocation
Isaiah 58:13 - day to avoid secular pursuits
Isaiah 66:23 - a day to come before God and worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath"

Then we wait about 6 months and you ask again as if the answer was never posted.

were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

There seems to be a common theme in these posts. People ask for evidence, scripture is provided and than there isn't even a slight "let me pray about it, or look at it from a different perspective, maybe I'm missing something" when evidence is shown, they go to the next scripture they twist, despite all the overwhelming evidence thats been provided over and over again. Salvation is on the line, if there is a chance I'm wrong I want to know about it.

My friend goes to church on Sunday. I do not believe its Gods Holy day, but I will go occasionally for support and in return she will go occasionally to mine. She prefers my pastor, the sermons, the "vibe" but wishes it was on Sunday. Just seems like if people really wanted to follow God, learn the truth, they would be more open minded to scriptures. Why not give Sabbath a try, what do they have to lose?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

There seems to be a common theme in these posts. People ask for evidence, scripture is provided and than there isn't even a slight "let me pray about it, or look at it from a different perspective, maybe I'm missing something" when evidence is shown, they go to the next scripture they twist, despite all the overwhelming evidence thats been provided over and over again. Salvation is on the line, if there is a chance I'm wrong I want to know about it.

My friend goes to church on Sunday. I do not believe its Gods Holy day, but I will go occasionally for support and in return she will go occasionally to mine. She prefers my pastor, the sermons, the "vibe" but wishes it was on Sunday. Just seems like if people really wanted to follow God, learn the truth, they would be more open minded to scriptures. Why not give Sabbath a try, what do they have to lose?

Hello imge, I thought I best say hello and welcome as I have not met you before. So nice to meet you and welcome here to CF

Sadly your post here is true, most do not want to hear the truth of God's Word we are told in the scriptures *Matthew 22:14; John 3:19-21. Sometime back I felt like what is the point one day of sharing God's Word when it seemed to me that no one wanted to hear it, then God showed me that if we do not plant the seeds nothing can grow.

I believe this is our job. We do not know when or if these seeds will germinate. Germinating the seed (the Word) is God's work not ours. Who knows if something we have shared from God's Word does not germinate 2, 5 or 10 years from now? One things is for sure though if we do not plant the seeds (the Word - Luke 8:11) then there is nothing for God to grow in His garden. You may not see many here that may want to know God's Word, but I believe God has shown me that there are those who he is guiding to hear His Word here in CF. Many read and follow but do not talk, and praise be to God, some will even reach out and pm you if God is guiding them to do so.

God bless

 

[Bob S]

The real joy is rest in Jesus, knowing He is at my side everyday so that I don't have to worry about tomorrow. I get plenty of rest every day, so I really do not have to take a day that was supposed to be a day of reflection for Israel. My spiritual rest comes from believing in Jesus and knowing He is providing my spiritual rest.

In reflection, raising four children in a strict Sabbath keeping home certainly didn't provide for them, who didn't need to rest, anything to look forward. Is it any wonder children brought up in strict SDA homes leave the church.

All is not the blissful picture proclaimed by Sabbath keepers. I know because I have been involved with hundreds of SDA youth. Very few of them remain in the church. Even when I decided that we should ease up with the advice from the prophet and allow our children to use that energy that could not be quelled on Sabbath it was too late. The memories of all of those rules of the past had made them determined not to repeat it with their families and it was a blessing to them when I finally realized that the Sabbath law had ended at the Cross and God had never ever asked any other nation to observe a day. All that early family turmoil was for naught. Had I studied scripture before being introduced to Sabbath observers I would have known not to get involved in their false interpretation of scripture.

It is never too late to accept the real truth of the new covenant belief system. Jesus system doesn't have a bunch of thou shalt nots concerning old covenant Sabbath. If you notice, no one from the Sabbath camp is willing to stand up and tell us what one can and cannot do on the day they deem to still be enforced. Could that be because there is no teaching in the New Testament about how to observe a day and they are not about to use the Old Testament laws of observance? I really wonder when someone says "happy Sabbath" what they are really covering up behind the perhaps pseudo smile. Only you really know.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hello imge, I thought I best say hello and welcome as I have not met you before. So nice to meet you and welcome here to CF

Sadly your post here is true, most do not want to hear the truth of God's Word we are told in the scriptures *Matthew 22:14; John 3:19-21. Sometime back I felt like what is the point one day of sharing God's Word when it seemed to me that no one wanted to hear it, then God showed me that if we do not plant the seeds nothing can grow.

I believe this is our job. We do not know when or if these seeds will germinate. Germinating the seed (the Word) is God's work not ours. Who knows if something we have shared from God's Word does not germinate 2, 5 or 10 years from now? One things is for sure though if we do not plant the seeds (the Word - Luke 8:11) then there is nothing for God to grow in His garden. You may not see many here that may want to know God's Word, but I believe God has shown me that there are those who he is guiding to hear His Word here in CF. Many read and follow but do not talk, and praise be to God, some will even reach out and pm you if God is guiding them to do so.

God bless

Nice to meet you too! It really surprises me people would even try to believe that God's law is done away with. Satan is working hard to make that argument and try to take as many souls as possible. The scripture is so clear and its seems like the ones who don't see it, they don't want to because it may interfere with their lifestyle. My lifestyle is better than ever and I have been so blessed in so many ways.

God bless you friend!

 

[Bob S]

Nice to meet you too! It really surprises me people would even try to believe that God's law is done away with. Satan is working hard to make that argument and try to take as many souls as possible. The scripture is so clear and its seems like the ones who don't see it, they don't want to because it may interfere with their lifestyle. My lifestyle is better than ever and I have been so blessed in so many ways.

God bless you friend!

If the Law that God gave to Israel is not "done away" as you stated why are you not keeping all of His Laws given to Israel. What would give you the right to cull even one jot or one tittle?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The real joy is rest in Jesus, knowing He is at my side everyday so that I don't have to worry about tomorrow. I get plenty of rest every day, so I really do not have to take a day that was supposed to be a day of reflection for Israel. My spiritual rest comes from believing in Jesus and knowing He is providing my spiritual rest.

In reflection, raising four children in a strict Sabbath keeping home certainly didn't provide for them, who didn't need to rest, anything to look forward. Is it any wonder children brought up in strict SDA homes leave the church.

All is not the blissful picture proclaimed by Sabbath keepers. I know because I have been involved with hundreds of SDA youth. Very few of them remain in the church. Even when I decided that we should ease up with the advice from the prophet and allow our children to use that energy that could not be quelled on Sabbath it was too late. The memories of all of those rules of the past had made them determined not to repeat it with their families and it was a blessing to them when I finally realized that the Sabbath law had ended at the Cross and God had never ever asked any other nation to observe a day. All that early family turmoil was for naught. Had I studied scripture before being introduced to Sabbath observers I would have known not to get involved in their false interpretation of scripture.

It is never too late to accept the real truth of the new covenant belief system. Jesus system doesn't have a bunch of thou shalt nots concerning old covenant Sabbath. If you notice, no one from the Sabbath camp is willing to stand up and tell us what one can and cannot do on the day they deem to still be enforced. Could that be because there is no teaching in the New Testament about how to observe a day and they are not about to use the Old Testament laws of observance? I really wonder when someone says "happy Sabbath" what they are really covering up behind the perhaps pseudo smile. Only you really know.

Let me give you some insight on the Seventh-day Adventist church since you don't seem to know.

The SDA is one of the fastest growing denominations with over 20 million members. Adventists’ Back-to-Basics Faith is Fastest Growing U.S. Church – Mar 11 | Adventist Today It also has one of the best healthcare systems in the nation (Adventist Health). The second largest school system in the world Seventh-day Adventist Schools | K12 Academics Loma Linda the largest congregation of SDA is one of 5 in the world, the only one in the US, to live the longest These Americans live seven to eleven years longer. What's their secret? So are we blissful? Yes and blessed.

It actually makes me sad about what you wrote about the youth. Maybe you don't realize but this is the most confusing time in someone's life as they are still in the developmental stage, are all hormones as their brains are not fully developed. If you are spreading the things to these youth that you seem to be so passionate about on these treads, than I feel sorry for these young people.

God says the path is narrow. Mathew 14:14 13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Being a Christian, obeying the laws God made for all man that teach us to love and honor God (commandments 1-4) and love each other (commandments 5-10) is not always easy, especially for youth.

Jesus says He provides a Helper (the Holy Spirit) to help us keep Gods laws John 14: 15-18
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

He also warns people who practice lawlessness
Mathew 7 21-23 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

And a warning on teaching others to not obey Gods laws
Mathew 5:19
Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

There is a common theme in scripture about salvation and commandments. We are saved by grace and we obey Gods laws because we love Him. There are a lot of scriptures and I ask anyone reading my post to look in your Bible in the index and read every scripture on commandments, sabbath, laws and look at the overwhelming scriptures asking us to keep the commandments and see if it makes any sense why Gods Holy law would ever be "done away". This is not Biblical and God gave us common sense for a reason. Pray on these things, let God lead your life.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Nice to meet you too! It really surprises me people would even try to believe that God's law is done away with. Satan is working hard to make that argument and try to take as many souls as possible. The scripture is so clear and its seems like the ones who don't see it, they don't want to because it may interfere with their lifestyle. My lifestyle is better than ever and I have been so blessed in so many ways.

God bless you friend!

Well thanks imge, Yep I agree but God is our strength and help in times of need and gives us wisdom from his Word through his Spirit that his adversaries cannot gainsay or resist if we prayerfully claim his promises. Happy Sabbath my time. We are just entering into God's Sabbath rest our time. God's presence and peace is here All praise to him. There is some interesting scriptures from ISAIAH 6:9-10 that both JESUS and Paul used in their discussions with those who would not hear and accept God's Word in their day in MATTHEW 13:13-15 and ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 28:26-27. There will always be those who believe and follow God's Word and those who will not hear and choose not to follow for whatever reason. We are not to judge others but we can know them by their fruits according to the scriptures. Gods sheep according to the scriptures are all those who hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear and follow according to the scriptures in JOHN 10:26-27 are not God's sheep. You shall know them by their fruits.

God bless and happy Sabbath!

 

[BobRyan]

All is not the blissful picture proclaimed by Sabbath keepers. I know because I have been involved with hundreds of SDA youth. Very few of them remain in the church. Even when I decided that we should ease up with the advice from the prophet

No matter how much you do not like the SDA denomination - it does not address the question on this thread or the fact that a lot of people on this section of the board are not SDA.

No posts (not even SDA posts) on this board have argued the position "Keep the Sabbath as the Bible says - because the SDA denomination does that" so simply "finding a complaint about one Sabbath School class" in the world does not address the more general question on this thread about what the Bible says regarding the Sabbath and how to "keep it holy" (as the text says in Ex 20:8).

 

[BobRyan]

If the Law that God gave to Israel is not "done away" as you stated

Which explains why we still have "do not take God's name in vain" -- even though it is a command not "repeated" in the NT

================================

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm ALL Ten - of the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

And of course 7th day groups

Seventh-day Baptists
Seventh-day Adventists
(and 100's of others)

 

[Bob S]

Let me give you some insight on the Seventh-day Adventist church since you don't seem to know.

The SDA is one of the fastest growing denominations with over 20 million members. Adventists’ Back-to-Basics Faith is Fastest Growing U.S. Church – Mar 11 | Adventist Today It also has one of the best health care systems in the nation (Adventist Health). Loma Linda the largest congregation of SDA is one of 5 in the world, the only one in the US, to live the longest These Americans live seven to eleven years longer. What's their secret? So are we blissful- yes and blessed.

You are preaching to the choir img. All that does not make the SDA church the remnant or the true church. I don't know why you posted except that it is some bragging points. Another thing, living longer many times doesn't equate to quality.

It actually makes me sad on what you wrote about the youth. Maybe you don't realize but this is the most confusing time of someone's life as they are still in the developmental stage, are all hormones as their brains are not fully developed. If you are spreading the things to these youth that you seem to be so passionate about on these treads, than I feel sorry for these young people you seem to have access to.

Why then when youth have developed brains they do not go back to their roots? I spread the go news of salvation not by works like keeping Sabbath, but by faith and Grace

God says the path is narrow. Mathew 14:14 13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

If you really believe you have an advantage over other Christians who are not Sabbath observant you have been deceived. One thing for sure I have never found one SDA that keeps the Sabbath as required by the Law. That is why I ask what is proper Sabbath observance. If the Sabbath were a real requirement for salvation as the SDAs teach, no one would be saved.

Being a Christian, obeying the laws God made for all man that teach us to love and honor God and love each other is not always easy, especially youth.

What are the commands that God requires all man to keep of what you allude? My Bible tells me that I belong to the truth if I believe in Jesus and love my fellow man as Jesus love us. 1Jn3:19-24 Your prophet's writings tell you you have to keep the ten commandments, be a faithful tithe payer and believe the prophet is the final authority.

Jesus says He providers a helper (the Holy Spirit) to help us keep Gods laws John 14: 15-18

Yes, if you read 2Cor3:6-11 that is what Paul is telling us. The Holy Spirit is our guide replacing the ten commandments.

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Yes, if you read Jn 15 you will find out what the commandments Jesus ie referring. Hint, it is not the ten commandments.

He also warns people who practice lawlessness
Mathew 7 21-23 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

I presume that you believe not being observant to the ritual weekly Sabbath is being lawless. Sorry about that. I am observant to Jesus command to love others as He loves us. In your eyes I presume that is being lawless.

There is a common theme in scripture about Salvation and Commandments. There are a lot of scriptures and I ask anyone reading my post to look in your Bible in the index and read every scripture on commandments, sabbath, laws and look at the overwhelming scriptures asking us to keep the commandments and see if it makes any sense why Gods Holy law would ever be "done away". This is not Biblical and God gave us common sense for a reason. Pray on these things, let God lead your life.

I ask you and every other seeker for truth to read Gal 3, Eph 2 and especially verse 15 and the book of Romans. We are not under the Sinai covenant Law my friend. Whoever has told you we are sold you a bag of rags.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

To all my fellow Sabbath Keepers- Hope you have a blessed Sabbath!