Sabbath Obligation?

[BlessedCreator]

No it's not because every Christian on earth commits willful sin!

The author of Hebrews is stating that falling away from Jesus and returning to the law is that willful sin.

Hebrews 10:29
How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Your quoting Hebrews 10:26 out of the context of what the author is saying.

So in effect your actually saying, that a Christian has not been sanctified by the blood of the covenant. Because if a Christian commits a willful sin, then that sanctification is lost.

That is what you are teaching; any Christian is one willful sin away from damnation. That is not what chapter ten is saying.

What willful sins do you commit??

 

[Bob S]

What willful sins do you commit??

Getting pretty personal now are you not? We all have them, even you.

 

[BlessedCreator]

I do not willfully live in sin. I do not want to perish.

 

[BobRyan]

Paul was not an enemy of God, so he should not be interpreted as teaching us to rebel against what God has commanded. Deuteronomy 13:4-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone was a false prophet who was not speaking for Him was if they taught against obeying the Mosaic Law, so if Paul had spoken against obeying God and God had therefore spoken against obeying Paul, then it shouldn't be difficult to figure out which one has the higher authority

Thank God that as we see in Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were so" and found his teaching to be in harmony with the Word of God.

amen to that.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matter is KEEPING the commandments of God"
Where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment Eph 6:1-2
Rom 3:31 "do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"
For under the NEW Covenant "The LAW is written on heart and mind" Heb 8:61-2

#31

 

[BlessedCreator]

Thank God that as we see in Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were so" and found his teaching to be in harmony with the Word of God.

amen to that.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matter is KEEPING the commandments of God"
Where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment Eph 6:1-2
Rom 3:31 "do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"
For under the NEW Covenant "The LAW is written on heart and mind" Heb 8:61-2

#31

Are you teaching we are under the law and 10 commandments or not?

 

[BobRyan]

Are you teaching we are under the law and 10 commandments or not?

Paul's use of the term "under the law" is very specific.

In Romans 3:19-20 Paul says "every mouth" in fact "the entire world" is under the law - (which is his term and here is where he defines exactly what it means) -- clearly it is "under the condemnation of the law"

19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

so then apart from the Gospel all are condemned by the Law of God -- it still exists it still condemns
============

But under the Gospel we have this -

31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

The role of the Law of God for the lost is to condemn all as sinners doomed to the 2nd death, showing the need for the Gospel - in the case of "all" .

The role of the law of God for the saved is that under the New Covenant it is "written on heart and mind" Heb 8:6-12 - that law includes the TEN where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment Eph 6:1-2

 

[BlessedCreator]

So you believe we need to keep the weekly Sabbath?

In Romans 3:19-20 Paul says "every mouth" in fact "the entire world" is under the law - (which is his term and here is where he defines exactly what it means) -- clearly it is "under the condemnation of the law"

19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

so then apart from the Gospel all are condemned by the Law of God -- it still exists it still condemns
============

But under the Gospel we have this -

31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

The role of the Law of God for the lost is to condemn all as sinners doomed to the 2nd death, showing the need for the Gospel - in the case of "all" .

The role of the law of God for the saved is that under the New Covenant it is "written on heart and mind" Heb 8:6-12 - that law includes the TEN where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment Eph 6:1-2

 

[BobRyan]

So you believe we need to keep the weekly Sabbath?

yes -
10 commandments are the ones where the 5th commandment is "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2.

10 commandments are included in the "if you break one you break them all" statement in James 2.

10 commandments include the Sabbath "made for mankind" Mark 2:27, where "all mankind" is supposed to come before God to worship for all eternity after the cross "from Sabbath to Sabbath" Isaiah 66:23

And as I point out in my signature line - the detail about that Sabbath commandment still remaining is a Bible detail that scholarship on both sides of the debate agree.

The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19,
the Westminster Confession of Faith section 19,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

Where the actual debate comes in is whether or not to edit one of the commandments but both groups agree that all ten still apply and will apply as included in the moral law of God written on the heart even under the Jer 31:31-34 "New Covenant" unchanged in Hebrews 8:6-12

 

[bbbbbbb]

yes -
10 commandments are the ones where the 5th commandment is "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2.

10 commandments are included in the "if you break one you break them all" statement in James 2.

10 commandments include the Sabbath "made for mankind" Mark 2:27, where "all mankind" is supposed to come before God to worship for all eternity after the cross "from Sabbath to Sabbath" Isaiah 66:23

And as I point out in my signature line - the detail about that Sabbath commandment still remaining is a Bible detail that scholarship on both sides of the debate agree.

The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19,
the Westminster Confession of Faith section 19,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

Where the actual debate comes in is whether or not to edit one of the commandments but both groups agree that all ten still apply and will apply as included in the moral law of God written on the heart even under the Jer 31:31-34 "New Covenant" unchanged in Hebrews 8:6-12

It seems that the actual debate which you have carried on with extreme tenacity has been whether or not the SDA definition and practice of Sabbath is really and truly God's design or merely the development of nineteenth-century American Protestant practices by Mrs. White.

 

[BobRyan]

It seems that the actual debate which you have carried on with extreme tenacity has been whether or not the SDA definition and practice of Sabbath is really and truly God's design .

nice story

But we all notice that is the Bible texts being quoted - that are the issue. I quote no SDA source or definition.

details matter.

 

[bbbbbbb]

nice story

But we all notice that is the Bible texts being quoted - that are the issue. I quote no SDA source or definition.

details matter.

However, of course, you have no actual biblical support for engaging in nineteenth-century American Protestant behavior on Saturdays.

 

[BobRyan]

However, of course, you have no actual biblical support for engaging in nineteenth-century American Protestant behavior on Saturdays.

Called the "Sabbath" in the Bible "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD YHWH" Ex 20:10

Lev 23:1-3 a day of "holy convocation"
Is 66:23 a day when "all mankind come before God to worship" for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.
Is 58:13 a day to avoid all secular activity.

The Bible was not written by "nineteenth-century American Protestants"

You cannot be at all serious

yes... I can

 

[bbbbbbb]

Called the "Sabbath" in the Bible "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD YHWH" Ex 20:10

Lev 23:1-3 a day of "holy convocation"
Is 66:23 a day when "all mankind come before God to worship" for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.
Is 58:13 a day to avoid all secular activity.

The Bible was not written by "nineteenth-century American Protestants"

You cannot be at all serious in equating the Jewish observance of the Sabbath with driving an automobile to a building set next to a parking lot for said automobile, entering the building and spending approximately one hour in said building going through standard nineteenth-century Protestant Christian activities.

 

[BobRyan]

You cannot be at all serious in equating the Jewish observance of the Sabbath with driving an automobile .

step 1. Please post all the "driving an automobile" statements I have made on this topic.

Step 2. Show that the gentiles in Isaiah 56:6-8 are "just the Jews" observing the Sabbath

step 3. Show how "all mankind" in Isaiah 66:23 is 'just the Jews' - coming before God from Sabbath to Sabbath for worship -- for all eternity, after the cross, in the New Earth.

in the much hoped for history for Acts 13 what some had thought to find is that Paul went to the synagogues on Sabbath preaching the gospel and telling any gentiles there - to join him in church "tomorrow" for more gospel preaching if they wanted to hear it because the Sabbath was only for Jews.

Instead in Acts 13 - after hearing and accepting Paul's gospel it is the gentiles (not the jews) that ask for more gospel preaching to be given to them "the next Sabbath"

 

[bbbbbbb]

step 1. Please post all the "driving an automobile" statements I have made on this topic.

Step 2. Show that the gentiles in Isaiah 56:6-8 are Jews observing the Sabbath

step 3. Show how "all mankind" in Isaiah 66:23 is 'just Jews' - coming before God from Sabbath to Sabbath for worship -- for all eternity, after the cross, in the New Earth.

in the much hoped for history for Acts 13 what some had thought to find is that Paul went to the synagogues on Sabbath preaching the gospel and telling any gentiles there - to join him in church "tomorrow" for more gospel preaching if they wanted to hear it because the Sabbath was only for Jews.

Instead in Acts 13 - after hearing and accepting Paul's gospel it is the gentiles (not the jews) that ask for more gospel preaching to be given to them "the next Sabbath"

Precisely what do you do on a typical Saturday? Where in scripture do have any command for what it is that you actually and precisely do? Have you been commanded to go to a building and sit with other folks there and go through various religious motions for about an hour?

 

[BobRyan]

You cannot be at all serious in equating the Jewish observance of the Sabbath with driving an automobile .

step 1. Please post all the "driving an automobile" statements I have made on this topic.

Step 2. Show that the gentiles in Isaiah 56:6-8 are Jews observing the Sabbath

step 3. Show how "all mankind" in Isaiah 66:23 is 'just Jews' - coming before God from Sabbath to Sabbath for worship -- for all eternity, after the cross, in the New Earth.

in the much hoped for history for Acts 13 what some had thought to find is that Paul went to the synagogues on Sabbath preaching the gospel and telling any gentiles there - to join him in church "tomorrow" for more gospel preaching if they wanted to hear it because the Sabbath was only for Jews.

Instead in Acts 13 - after hearing and accepting Paul's gospel it is the gentiles (not the jews) that ask for more gospel preaching to be given to them "the next Sabbath"

Precisely what do you do on a typical Saturday? Where in scripture do have any command for what it is that you actually and precisely do?

already did that

Called the "Sabbath" in the Bible "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD YHWH" Ex 20:10

Lev 23:1-3 a day of "holy convocation"
Is 66:23 a day when "all mankind come before God to worship" for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.
Is 58:13 a day to avoid all secular activity.

 

[BobRyan]

That was an answer that lasted over 4 months! nice.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Excuse the dumb question...

Why don't you worship at the synagogue?

 

[BobRyan]

Excuse the dumb question...

Why don't you worship at the synagogue?

Are you asking that because Paul was in the synagogue with Jews and gentiles in Acts 13, and preaching the Gospel Sabbath after Sabbath to Jews and gentiles in Acts 17, and 18:4?

is that the context for your question?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yep...