Revelation ch 9 and ch 12 proves satan is not bound in this age.

[Douggg]

Trumpet one sounds. Events happen. TIME passes
Trumpet two sounds. Events happen. TIME passes
Trumpet three sounds. Events happen. TIME passes
Trumpet four sounds. Events happen. TIME passes
Trumpet five sounds. Events happen. TIME passes: 5 months / first woe
Trumpet 6 sounds. Events happen. TIME passes. Second woe

It is not Trumpet one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. It is not nouns, like numbers one, two, three.... 1,2, 3....on a number line. It is adjectives, identifying 7 different angels.

First angel sounds his trumpet. Events happen. TIME passes
Second angel sounds his trumpet. Events happen. TIME passes
Third angel sounds his trumpet. Events happen. TIME passes
Fourth angel sounds his trumpet. Events happen. TIME passes
Fifth angel sounds his trumpet. Events happen. TIME passes
Sixth angel sounds his trumpet. Events happen. TIME passes

Seventh angel - sounds his trumpet. Satan is cast down to earth, for the time, times, half times - which the events revealed by the first six angels take place, within. The seventh angel is completely separate from the other six angels because -

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The six angels and their trumpet announced events takes place in the days of the voice of the seventh angel. Those days are the time, times, half time that Satan will have left, once he is cast down to earth.

I am copying and pasting from another thread....

Day 1___________________________*__1_2_3_4___**______***_____Day 2520

* Satan cast down
** Flesh tormenting locust
*** the killing of one third of mankind

1,2,3,4 trumpets

But, in fairness to you, I am going to make the symbols and legend more fitting for our discussion in this thread, lamad. This timeline shows the application of the text. Understanding of Revelation is a three fold endeavor, translation, interpretation, application.

Day 1___________________***(7)__1_2_3_4__*(5)____**(6)_____Day 2520

*** third woe, as seventh angel sounds, Satan cast down
* first woe, as fifth angel sounds, Flesh tormenting locust
** second woe, as the sixth angel sounds, the killing of one third of mankind

1,2,3,4 trumpets

 

[DavidPT]

It is not Trumpet one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. It is not nouns, like numbers one, two, three.... 1,2, 3....on a number line. It is adjectives, identifying 7 different angels.

First angel sounds his trumpet. Events happen. TIME passes
Second angel sounds his trumpet. Events happen. TIME passes
Third angel sounds his trumpet. Events happen. TIME passes
Fourth angel sounds his trumpet. Events happen. TIME passes
Fifth angel sounds his trumpet. Events happen. TIME passes
Sixth angel sounds his trumpet. Events happen. TIME passes

Seventh angel - sounds his trumpet. Satan is cast down to earth, for the time, times, half times - which the events revealed by the first six angels take place, within. The seventh angel is completely separate from the other six angels because -

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The six angels and their trumpet announced events takes place in the days of the voice of the seventh angel. Those days are the time, times, half time that Satan will have left, once he is cast down to earth.

I am copying and pasting from another thread....

Day 1___________________________*__1_2_3_4___**______***_____Day 2520

* Satan cast down
** Flesh tormenting locust
*** the killing of one third of mankind

1,2,3,4 trumpets

But, in fairness to you, I am going to make the symbols and legend more fitting for our discussion in this thread, lamad.

Day 1___________________***(7)__1_2_3_4__*(5)____**(6)_____Day 2520

*** third woe, as seventh angel sounds, Satan cast down
* first woe, as fifth angel sounds, Flesh tormenting locust
** second woe, as the sixth angel sounds, the killing of one third of mankind

1,2,3,4 trumpets

The following proves you couldn't possibly be correct though.

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Revelation 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

Revelation 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.


Obviously then, that makes the 3rd woe the 7th trumpet. That means the 7 trumpets and the events within them are in chronological order.

Revelation 9:12 clearly indicates the first of the 3 woes is past, and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. This means all of the events in the 5th trumpet are fulfilled and in the past before the 6th and 7th angel sound. To try and say some of the events in the 5th trumpet occur after the 7th trumpet has sounded, that's not even logical.

 

[Douggg]

The following proves you couldn't possibly be correct though.

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Revelation 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

Revelation 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.


Obviously then, that makes the 3rd woe the 7th trumpet. That means the 7 trumpets and the events within them are in chronological order.

Revelation 9:12 clearly indicates the first of the 3 woes is past, and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. This means all of the events in the 5th trumpet are fulfilled and in the past before the 6th and 7th angel sound. To try and say some of the events in the 5th trumpet occur after the 7th trumpet has sounded, that's not even logical.

David, understanding of Revelation is a three fold endeavor, translation, interpretation, application.

Obviously then, that makes the 3rd woe the 7th trumpet. That means the 7 trumpets and the events within them are in chronological order.

David, it necessary to apply what is in the text. The 7th angel, at the time he sounds, is completely separate from the first six angels. The verse of Revelation 10:7 you left out in your post, but it is critical.

The issue is not one of interpretation, as we agree what the first, second, third woes are.

The issue is how to apply "the days" of the voice of the seventh angel, in Revelation 10:7.

Since the seventh angel is tied to the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth. and in Revelation 12, Satan cast down to earth, having great wrath because his time is short, a time, times, half time - the application thereof, places the third woe revealed - as containing the timeframe for the six angel's and their trumpets to be within.

"the days" of the voice of the seventh angel = the time, times, half time.

Revelation 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

One woe past as having being revealed. Not two more woes coming in sequence on the timeline, but two more woes to be revealed to John - what they are.

The second woe is in sequence on the timeline, to follow the first woe, agreed.

But the third woe is revealed completely separate in another chapter, because it is not in sequence of following the second woe on the timeline.

 

[iamlamad]

It is not Trumpet one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. It is not nouns, like numbers one, two, three.... 1,2, 3....on a number line. It is adjectives, identifying 7 different angels.

First angel sounds his trumpet. Events happen. TIME passes
Second angel sounds his trumpet. Events happen. TIME passes
Third angel sounds his trumpet. Events happen. TIME passes
Fourth angel sounds his trumpet. Events happen. TIME passes
Fifth angel sounds his trumpet. Events happen. TIME passes
Sixth angel sounds his trumpet. Events happen. TIME passes

Seventh angel - sounds his trumpet. Satan is cast down to earth, for the time, times, half times - which the events revealed by the first six angels take place, within. The seventh angel is completely separate from the other six angels because -

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The six angels and their trumpet announced events takes place in the days of the voice of the seventh angel. Those days are the time, times, half time that Satan will have left, once he is cast down to earth.

I am copying and pasting from another thread....

Day 1___________________________*__1_2_3_4___**______***_____Day 2520

* Satan cast down
** Flesh tormenting locust
*** the killing of one third of mankind

1,2,3,4 trumpets

But, in fairness to you, I am going to make the symbols and legend more fitting for our discussion in this thread, lamad. This timeline shows the application of the text. Understanding of Revelation is a three fold endeavor, translation, interpretation, application.

Day 1___________________***(7)__1_2_3_4__*(5)____**(6)_____Day 2520

*** third woe, as seventh angel sounds, Satan cast down
* first woe, as fifth angel sounds, Flesh tormenting locust
** second woe, as the sixth angel sounds, the killing of one third of mankind

1,2,3,4 trumpets

OK, "First" is an adjective: but what is it telling the reader? It is telling the reader that this is the first angel out of seven to sound His trumpet. You can TRY to imagine your way out of this, but it is impossible: John put in those words for SEQUENCING. He could have just said, one angel; another angel, etc. The Holy Spirit chose those words for John so we would always know the ORDER of these events.

Let's back up ten paces and see a wider view: the BOOK is a scroll. The trumpets are written in the scroll. As a scroll is read, one portion can be seen and read, then one roll is unrolled and the other rolled so another "page" is in view. What God is telling us through John's writing is that the FIRST thing to happen as the first angel sounds is that all the green grass is burned up and 1/3 of the trees. This is the very first event in the trumpet judgments.

Then, after that portion of the book is read, and another becomes visible, the next "page" is read: the second angel. "Second" here tells us it is not the first angel sounding again, nor any of the other angels of the seven: it is second angel. And after he sounds, a third of the seal becomes blood.

In short, adjectives are good: they give us information about nouns: in this case, the seven angels.

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Now, lets see what this verse really tells us.
First, there are "days" for EVERY angel and associated trumpet sound. This is only specifying the days of the 7th angel. Without any guessing we know this is the FINAL angel for the first 6 have already sounded and the scroll or book is read. Next, we see that God calls the sounding of a trumpet as a VOICE. Next, we see that the events of the 7th angel is not instantaneous but take perhaps a few DAYS. (Not surprising: the 5th trumpet effects lasted for 5 months.) This verse is prophecy: telling us what when the 7th angel does sound, in the future from this moment: God will wide up (end) a mystery. If we read ahead, it is the mystery of Satan being the god of this world, and his reign finally ending.

Satan is cast down to earth, for the time, times, half times - which the events revealed by the first six angels take place, within. This is MYTH and imagination. The truth is, TIME goes FORWARD, not backward, unless it is a miracle. The first six trumpets have ALREADY sounded, as shown in chapter 8 and 9.

The six angels and their trumpet announced events takes place in the days of the voice of the seventh angel. Those days are the time, times, half time that Satan will have left, once he is cast down to earth.
Most people know that times goes FORWARD, not backward. We know, you are different.

You can place all the asterisks you want anywhere, but where you place them is MYTH. The truth is, they come BEFORE the 7th trumpet. The REAL mystery here is why your imagination is so wild.

 

[iamlamad]

The following proves you couldn't possibly be correct though.

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Revelation 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

Revelation 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.


Obviously then, that makes the 3rd woe the 7th trumpet. That means the 7 trumpets and the events within them are in chronological order.

Revelation 9:12 clearly indicates the first of the 3 woes is past, and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. This means all of the events in the 5th trumpet are fulfilled and in the past before the 6th and 7th angel sound. To try and say some of the events in the 5th trumpet occur after the 7th trumpet has sounded, that's not even logical.

Aha! David, my hat is off to you: you NAILED IT!

Douggg, pay attention:

Revelation 9:12 One woe is past [the 5th trumpet]; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter [trumpet 5 and trumpet 6].
Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past [trumpet 6]; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

We could rewrite this mathematically speaking as one thing equals another:

The 5th trumpet [first woe] is past; and, behold, there comes two woes more: the 5th trumpet [the second woe] and the 6th trumpet [the third woe] hereafter.

You get the picture: these TIMING words prove your theory as BOGUS.

Awesome job, David!

 

[Douggg]

First, there are "days" for EVERY angel and associated trumpet sound.

No days in Revelation 8. No "in the days of" in Revelation 8, or Revelation 9.

Satan is cast down to earth, for the time, times, half times - which the events revealed by the first six angels take place, within. This is MYTH and imagination. The truth is, TIME goes FORWARD, not backward, unless it is a miracle. The first six trumpets have ALREADY sounded, as shown in chapter 8 and 9.

No one is saying that time doesn't go forward. That's not the issue.

The six angels and their trumpet announced events takes place in the days of the voice of the seventh angel. Those days are the time, times, half time that Satan will have left, once he is cast down to earth.
Most people know that times goes FORWARD, not backward. We know, you are different.

Time goes forward. That is not the issue. The issue is where on a timeline, the application of the text places the events.

 

[Douggg]

Douggg, pay attention:

Revelation 9:12 One woe is past [the 5th trumpet]; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter [trumpet 5 and trumpet 6].
Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past [trumpet 6]; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

We could rewrite this mathematically speaking as one thing equals another:

The 5th trumpet [first woe] is past; and, behold, there comes two woes more: the 5th trumpet [the second woe] and the 6th trumpet [the third woe] hereafter.

You get the picture: these TIMING words prove your theory as BOGUS.

You are leaving out Revelation 10:7, 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

You desire to put parenthesis around Revelation 10 and Revelation 11 in order to attempt to rationalize that third woe in Revelation 12 follows on a timeline the second woe.

But the text does not have parenthesis around Revelation 10 and Revelation 11. And the seventh angel sounding his trumpet is separate from the other six angels.

What you are not getting that there is a timeline sequence and, differently, a revealing sequence.

What comes quickly in Revelation 9:12 and Revelation 11:14 and Revelation 12:12 is the revealing sequence. Revealing what woes two and three are.

The first six angels, the sounding of their trumpets, are all grouped together, that theirs is a timeline sequence. The seventh angel sounding his trumpet is completely separate and does not follow the timeline sequence of the other six.

The seventh angel reveals the timeframe, in which, the other six angel's trumpets take place.

 

[iamlamad]

No days in Revelation 8. No "in the days of" in Revelation 8, or Revelation 9.

No one is saying that time doesn't go forward. That's not the issue.


Time goes forward. That is not the issue. The issue is where on a timeline, the application of the text places the events.

What you are missing: John GIVES US the timeline. If you can read and follow the text, you HAVE the timeline.
For example, when you read that the first angels sounded TIME PASSED on a timeline. Then after the first, the second angel sounded and MORE time passed on the same timeline. The text IS the timeline.

EVERY trumpet sound is on the same timeline in the same order John wrote then. Anything else is myth.

 

[Douggg]

What you are missing: John GIVES US the timeline. If you can read and follow the text, you HAVE the timeline.

It's not that simplified. Regarding the 7 angels who sound their trumpets, there is a timeline sequence and there is a revealing sequence.

For example, when you read that the first angels sounded TIME PASSED on a timeline. Then after the first, the second angel sounded and MORE time passed on the same timeline. The text IS the timeline.

You can do that for the first six angels. The time, on the time line, that follows the sixth angel sounding his trumpet leads to the sixth seal event. Not the seventh angel sounding his trumpet. The seventh angel is not part of the time line sequence of that group.

In the days which the seven angel sounds his trumpet reveals the timeframe of a time, times, half time, in which the other six angels trumpted events fit within.

EVERY trumpet sound is on the same timeline in the same order John wrote then. Anything else is myth.

lamad, you are wasting your time with the myth rhetoric. It is nothing more than a form of name calling.

 

[iamlamad]

It's not that simplified. Regarding the 7 angels who sound their trumpets, there is a timeline sequence and there is a revealing sequence.

You can do that for the first six angels. The time, on the time line, that follows the sixth angel sounding his trumpet leads to the sixth seal event. Not the seventh angel sounding his trumpet. The seventh angel is not part of the time line sequence of that group.

In the days which the seven angel sounds his trumpet reveals the timeframe of a time, times, half time, in which the other six angels trumpted events fit within.

lamad, you are wasting your time with the myth rhetoric. It is nothing more than a form of name calling.

OK. Dream on. Not one commentator will agree with you.

 

[DavidPT]

David, understanding of Revelation is a three fold endeavor, translation, interpretation, application.

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

Let's pretend the 5th trumpet sounds in 1970. And that the 7th trumpet sounds 2 years later. I'm not saying there are 2 years between the sounding of these trumpets. I'm only using this as an example to try and make my point.

According to your understanding then, what takes place in 1970 when a star falls from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit? Does he wait until the 7th angel sounds 2 years later before he actually opens the bottomless pit?

The text indicates that when he opens the bottomless pit, there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.


Once he opens the bottomless pit, are all of the above what takes place at that time? And these locusts that come out of the pit, don't they immediately do what they are commanded to do?

Revelation 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

In what days? The days of the 5th trumpet events? Or the days of the 7th trumpet events? I see no reason why it wouldn't be the former. What is the point of the 5th trumpet being a woe if none of the events recorded during the 5th trumpet even occur during the days of that trumpet? Would you say the same about the 6th trumpet? For example---would you say that the 2Ws are not killed during the 2nd woe, but are instead killed during the 3rd woe during the days of the 7th trumpet events?

 

[DavidPT]

I have my own theory about who is in the abyss locked there until Judgment Day. The spirits of Nephilim, aka the angelic part that lives on beyond the human body part. The Nephilim (Hebrew: נְפִילִים , nefilim) were the offspring of the "sons of God" and the "daughters of men" before the Deluge, according to Genesis 6:1–4.

I would say you and I are pretty much on the same page in regards to this part.