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Featured Revelation ch 9 and ch 12 proves satan is not bound in this age.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by DavidPT, Nov 14, 2019.

  1. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
    2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
    3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

    This is clearly speaking of the bottomless pit, the same pit satan gets cast into in Revelation 20. As can be seen in this passage, once the pit has been closed and locked, until someone unlocks it, the prisoners inside of it are not both in the pit and at the same time, roaming around the earth. It can't be both since none of these locusts, regardless what they actually might be, are roaming around the earth while locked up in the pit.

    Yet this is exactly what many claim satan does. They claim he is in the pit, and roaming the earth at the same time. If he can do that while locked up in the pit, why can't these locusts do that?


    And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth---this is meaning after the pit has been unlocked. And where does the text indicate they ascend to? Upon the earth, obviously meaning while they were in the pit, they were not also upon the earth at the time. The same has to apply when satan is locked in the pit. While he is in there he can't also be roaming the earth at the same time, such as the following passage indicates.

    1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:


    This is obviously meaning when he is not locked up in the pit. The thing about 1 Peter 5:8 though, there has never been a single time to this day, where 1 Peter 5:8 was not true. So how can anyone claim satan is bound in the pit in this age?

    And another argument of mine is the entire 12th chapter of Revelation. That chapter covers at least the past 2000 years and then some, yet nowhere in that chapter is there a time that fits satan being in the pit a thousand years. Before he is cast to the earth, he had access to heaven, thus he couldn't have been locked up in the pit during that time. Then when he is cast out of heaven, he is cast unto the earth. He is then seen not locked up in the pit like the locusts in Revelation 9 are, but is seen persecuting the woman who brought forth the manchild. And when that attempt fails, he is then not cast into the BP either, he instead is wroth with the woman, and proceeds to make war with the remnant of her seed.

    Therefore there is nowhere in all of Revelation 12 where there is a time satan can be in the pit. So why do many still insist satan is bound in the pit in this age, regardless that Scripture, such as Revelation 9 and 12 prove otherwise?
     
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  2. Berean Tim

    Berean Tim Member

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    That's my understanding too. Usually those opposing this view leave out Satan is placed in the pit , the pit is closed then sealed.
     
  3. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I agree.
     
  4. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi DavidPT,

    I agree. The context tells us that the angel, the `star` who had fallen from heaven was given the key. That we know from scripture was Lucifer, Satan. So he was never in the pit, but opens it when it is God`s timing, (given the key).
     
  5. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Hi Marylyn C. I have thought along those lines before, that the falling star might be meaning satan. I'm just not certain it is meaning him. What convinces you that it is meaning satan? Are you maybe basing some of this on Isaiah 14?
     
  6. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Yes, from Isa. 14: 12 and Ez. 28: 16 & 17.
     
  7. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God isn't going to give Satan the key to the prison where he will be imprisoned. The angel that is given the key still has the key when he casts Satan into the pit and the pit was still open from when the angel open3ed the pit in Rev 9.
     
  8. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    `And they were not given authority to kill them....` (Rev. 9: 5)

    Being `given a key` refers to God giving authority.

    `and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.` (Rev. 13: 5)

    God gives Satan limited authority in certain situations.

    Angels are called `stars, (Isa.14: 13) and Satan was the `star,` the angel that fell, cast out of heaven. He is given limited authority to let loose more demons, however it is just in God`s timing. Come the end of that then Satan will be cast into the pit because a mighty angel has the AUTHORITY to do so.

    God doesn`t need `keys,` to lock and unlock, it is His AUTHORITY.
     
  9. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No, a key is something which unlocks something. In this case the key unlocks the pit. Satan is never given that key because it's the key to the prison he will be locked inside of. Furthermore, the same angel that locks Satan in the pit already possess the key so he wasn't given the key in Rev 20 . He was given the key in Rev 9.
     
  10. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    A key on earth is actual, but God does not need keys to unlock something. The demons in the bottomless pit are not held by a physical door needing a great key. The demons are held by God`s authority.

    Remember when the unclean spirits cried out to Jesus not to send them out of the country, and Jesus gave them permission to enter the swine. (Mark 5: 12 & 13)
     
  11. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God isn't the one given a key and who unlocks the pit. It is an angel that does all that.

    Then why is an angel sent to open it if God can just make it open? Obviously there is a lock of some type and an angel is given some type of key that unlocks it.
     
  12. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Do you think the bottomless pit is a real place, or not a real place?
     
  13. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    We need to have pictorial illustrations for us to understand the invisible, demonic realm.

    Remember that demons, unclean spirits are SPIRITS, and a door or pit would not keep them in. IT IS GOD`S AUTHORITY!
     
  14. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    It is real but not as the pictorial illustration we are shown. Please read what I wrote above.
     
  15. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I disagree. The pit is a place where they are imprisoned, and there is a door and lock and seal which keep them there and an angel is given something which unlocks this place and it also says a chain of some type is in the angel's hand. We don't know what these things are made of and it isn't important to know that and we likely wouldn't even understand it but there is a key of some kind which is literally given to an angel and there is a lock of some type.
     
  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The language is in terms that the idea is conveyed. I agree we can't know at this time how the place called the bottomless pit is made. And may never know.

    It does keep whoever is in that place to not able to come out without God allowing it directly or by passing the "key" to someone else.

    ewq, are you taking the position that Satan is currently in the bottomless pit? I don't think there is any possible way that Satan is in the bottomless pit at present. Or ever had been.

    When I read Revelation 12:7-9, of Satan and his angels being cast down to earth from the (second) heaven, I think that is when Satan falling to earth is tossed the key, so to speak, to open the bottomless pit, and everything (assumed on my part) comes out. Satan being the falling star in Revelation 9, having been given the key to the bottomless pit, at that time.

    Obviously though, he will not have the ability to come out of the bottomless pit, when he is cast there when Jesus returns. The lock will be changed, figuratively so to speak, or the key will be taken away from Satan, either one. Or the lock is on the outside of the door, or that there are multiple cells, chambers, that are locked individually. We just don't know enough about the bottomless pit in many regards.

    Also, when Satan and his angels are cast down to earth, imo, that is Babylon is fallen, is fallen in Revelation 18. As God begins dismantling Satan's mystical kingdom of Mystery Babylon the Great.

    imo, Isaiah 14:1-13 is about the casting down of Satan and his kingdom to earth, forthcoming. Isaiah 14:13-20 is about Satan's man, in whom Satan acts out his desire to sit in the seat of God, when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act in 2Thessalonians 2:4 and Ezekiel 28:2

    4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
  17. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    The 5th trumpet is not the 7th trumpet though. I thought your position was that satan is cast to the earth during the 7th trumpet? As this post from another thread, below, shows.

     
  18. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Agreed, the fifth trumpet is not the 7th trumpet.

    Who the falling angel is in the 5th trumpet is not revealed until the 7th trumpet.

    It is similar to the second beast in Revelation 13, not being revealed as the false prophet until Revelation 19:20.

    Yes, I understanding what you are saying, it is not trumpet 7, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, numerically speaking. But trumpets 1,2,3,4,5,6 are sequential to each other because they are in one segment, Revelation 8-9. Trumpet 7 is separate from that group.
     
  19. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
    2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
    3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

    and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth----And he opened the bottomless pit----And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth



    Out of curiosity, does anyone disagree that the bottomless pit would be within the earth? I'm particularly curious as to what Amils might think. Unfortunately none appear to be posting in this thread thusfar.
     
  20. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    I still don't get your logic though. No matter how you look at it, the events recorded in the 5th trumpet have to precede the events recorded in the 7th trumpet. So if it is during the events of the 7th trumpet when satan actually falls to the earth, he then couldn't have already done that during the events recorded in the 5th trumpet.

    Let's say, for example, the events recorded during the 5th trumpet occur during 2000 AD. And let's also say the events recorded in the 7th trumpet occur during 2010 AD. If, when satan actually falls to the earth is during the 7th trumpet, during 2010 AD in this case, and that he only falls to the earth like this just one time, how then could he have already fallen to the earth 10 years earlier?
     
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