• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Rev 14:12, what does it mean?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by listed, Jun 4, 2017.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    +2,857
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    For those interested in the actual topic of this thread --

    Here we see the OP quoted. Followed by a great suggestion to actually quote the text that is the subject of the thread --


    We begin by quoting it.

    "here is the patience of the saints - here are they who KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

    John also writes 1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"

    Eph 6:2 Paul tells us that the 5th commandment is "the FIRST Commandment with a promise" -- first in that still-valid-unit-of-Ten. A Bible point that even the Baptist Confession of Faith and Westminster Confession of Faith will admit.

    And James 2 reminds us that in those commandments we find things like "Do not murder".

    And of course I think all on this board would agree that we are "not to take God's name in vain" even though a direct quote of that command is found nowhere in the NT.
     
  2. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +8,254
    Anabaptist
    :) just from the title and the Scripture, here's a footnote:

    2 It is quite clear that at this time the true
    believers in Yahshua are keeping the Torah in faith and obedience to the one who wrote it, (Rev 19:13, Joh 1:1-3, 14).
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  3. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

    +2,588
    Non-Denom
    Can you show us any verse in which John names the 10 Cs? That would go along ways for your proof.

    bugkiller
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    +2,857
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    Can you show us any verse where Jude quotes the commandment to Love God with all the heart or quotes the commandment to not take God's name in vain?

    Can you show us any verse where John says "ignore scripture" or "scripture is no longer the Word of God"??

    How about where John says "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"? Rev 14:12. I think we can find that one.

    How about where John says "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3?

    Or where CHRIST says that that "Moses Said" is the "Word of God" and that the Ten Commandments are included in what HE considered to be the "Commandments of God" in Mark 7:6-13?

    OR where Paul says that the 5th Commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 - in that still valid unit of TEN.
     
  5. listed

    listed are you?

    +1,514
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Very good. Now where does Rev 14:12 say "ten"? I didn't find it in any version or your quote. I didn't see it in your quote from 1 John either. Are you adding to Scripture? You need either a verse with the words "ten commandments" or quoting at least one of them from John for contextual proof. John is very different form other authors in the NT.
     
  6. listed

    listed are you?

    +1,514
    Non-Denom
    Private
    After reading BR's response to your post it must be obvious he can't because he didn't.
     
  7. listed

    listed are you?

    +1,514
    Non-Denom
    Private
    You refuse to accept Jeremiah 31:32. You refuse to accept John 1:17 and other verses in John which don't agree with your theology.
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    +2,857
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    Can you show us any verse where Jude quotes the commandment to Love God with all the heart or quotes the commandment to not take God's name in vain?

    Can you show us any verse where John says "ignore scripture" or "scripture is no longer the Word of God"??

    How about where John says "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"? Rev 14:12. I think we can find that one.

    How about where John says "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3?

    Or where CHRIST says that that what "Moses Said" is the "Word of God" and that the Ten Commandments are included in what HE considered to be the "Commandments of God" in Mark 7:6-13?

    OR where Paul says that the 5th Commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 - in that still valid unit of TEN.

    hint: nothing in that post claims to reject Jeremiah 31:32

    hint: nothing in that post claims to reject John 1:17

    Your post makes the false accusation but never attempts to prove it. Let's have discussion "instead".
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    +2,857
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    "Commandments of God" Rev 14:12
    Mark 7:6-13 Christ says that includes the TEN Commandments.
    Eph 6:2 says that includes the unit of TEN Commandments where the 5th commandment is the "first Commandment with a promise"


    My bible has 66 books in it.

    My bible already has 66 books in it. No need to add.
     
  10. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

    +2,588
    Non-Denom
    Ok you can't do as asked. You have absolutely nothing to base you claim on the commandments of God in Rev 14:12 are in fact the 10 Cs.

    I would like to address your question -

    Can you show us any verse where John says "ignore scripture" or "scripture is no longer the Word of God"??

    Since you asked me, why do you routinely ignore my verses? Why do you ignore half sentences even from your partial quotes? It should be obvious to the whole world nothing in your argument is valid because either you can't or won't answer my question.

    bugkiller
     
  11. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

    +2,588
    Non-Denom
    Think you are correct.

    bugkiller
     
  12. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

    +2,588
    Non-Denom
    So it does. What you post is no evidence Rev 14:12 is talking about the 10 Cs.

    bugkiller
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    +2,857
    United States
    SDA
    Married

    Until you read the post and the texts referenced

    Hint: John wrote John 14:15 AND Rev 14:12.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
  14. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +8,254
    Anabaptist
    Even if they read, it is
    Only YHWH Who might some day remove the veil from the mind that does not understand. If He Pleases. And not for those who are disobedient willfully, willingly unrepentant.
     
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    +2,857
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    God so loved the World that He gave His only Son - John 3:16. What is more He gave us the New Covenant where the "LAW of God is written on the heart" Jeremiah 31:31-33
     
  16. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

    +2,588
    Non-Denom
    You do not want to talk about John writings? Why the avoidance and change of subject matter?

    bugkiller
     
  17. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

    +2,588
    Non-Denom
    Nothing in your post had anything to do with John.

    bugkiller
     
  18. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

    +870
    Christian
    Married
    The law of God could be several things. Adam had laws from God not to eat of the tree. God gave Noah laws. God gave Abraham laws. God gave Israel laws and Jesus (God) gave Christians laws.

    Which set of laws do you all believe is what God has written on our hearts? I, for one, have never been persuaded by the law within me to keep old covenant ritual laws. I have been convicted to love my fellow man. What is your conviction experience?
     
  19. listed

    listed are you?

    +1,514
    Non-Denom
    Private
    For them they've conflated all law into the law issued at Sinai. As you note there are different sets of law. The law issued at Sinai clearly is to set a group of people apart from the rest of the world. Those laws are antagonistic with the law (covenant) issued to Noah. Whatever law Abraham obeyed wasn't the same law given to Israel by the words of Moses.
     
  20. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

    +870
    Christian
    Married
    Amen!
     
Loading...