Rev 14:12, what does it mean?

[listed]

Looking for explanations and discussion on this verse.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[listed]

It links back to Revelation 13:10 and the end of Revelation 12 - and it is the church still waiting for the rapture to come. The resurrection of the just and rapture time is after the great tribulation is over and thus the church is still keeping her - faith- testimony -commandments-patience.

Is that related to keeping the law? Some here say Rev 14:12 is a reference to keeping the law?

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[listed]

What do you mean OT law? no We have commandments to love God and love one another. We are also told some things such as - not to eat blood, not to eat things that have been strangled and more. The part as to eating things not strangled I have not yet seen how that links to the OT ways.

Yes I mean OT law as the law people talk about when posting this verse.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Looking for explanations and discussion on this verse.

The primary "commandments of God" referred to in this verse are the 1st and 2nd greatest commandments, and the verse itself applies specifically to Christians rather than Jews.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[GusWilby]

Looking for explanations and discussion on this verse.

The "holy ones" are 1) Jews who keep the law of God, and 2) Christians who keep the faith of Jesus. It merely includes both although they are both considered as one group, identified as the "holy ones."

 

[Bob S]

12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus. Rev 14:12

19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us. 1Jn 3:19-24

Verse 12 has nothing to do with the old covenant laws or commands. Those commands were for Israel not for Christians..

 

[bugkiller]

Not much interest even though it is posted many times.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Looking for explanations and discussion on this verse.

We begin by quoting it.

"here is the patience of the saints - here are they who KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

John also writes 1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"

Eph 6:2 Paul tells us that the 5th commandment is "the FIRST Commandment with a promise" -- first in that still-valid-unit-of-Ten. A Bible point that even the Baptist Confession of Faith and Westminster Confession of Faith will admit.

And James 2 reminds us that in those commandments we find things like "Do not murder".

And of course I think all on this board would agree that we are "not to take God's name in vain" even though a direct quote of that command is found nowhere in the NT.

 

[bugkiller]

We begin by quoting it.

"here is the patience of the saints - here are they who KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

I do not see the word "ten" in your verse. John does not say anything about keeping the law in any of his letters.

John tells us this is God's commandment -
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. I Jn 3

Jesus says -
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. Jn 15

Jesus does not say keep His Father's commandments (10 Cs).

John also says -
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1

John also writes 1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"

See above.

Eph 6:2 Paul tells us that the 5th commandment is "the FIRST Commandment with a promise" -- first in that still-valid-unit-of-Ten.

But not a command in Eph 6.

A Bible point that even the Baptist Confession of Faith and Westminster Confession of Faith will admit.

Please keep religion out of this discussion. You get on to people for not presenting the Bible. You should rely on the same.

And James 2 reminds us that in those commandments we find things like "Do not murder".

So what. James does not require the keeping of the law. Not a single one of the good works James talks about are works of the law (10 Cs).

And of course I think all on this board would agree that we are "not to take God's name in vain" even though a direct quote of that command is found nowhere in the NT.

Sure why would a lover do that?

bugkiller

 

[listed]

We begin by quoting it.

"here is the patience of the saints - here are they who KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

John also writes 1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"

Eph 6:2 Paul tells us that the 5th commandment is "the FIRST Commandment with a promise" -- first in that still-valid-unit-of-Ten. A Bible point that even the Baptist Confession of Faith and Westminster Confession of Faith will admit.

And James 2 reminds us that in those commandments we find things like "Do not murder".

And of course I think all on this board would agree that we are "not to take God's name in vain" even though a direct quote of that command is found nowhere in the NT.

Kindly explain Rev 14:12. I don't see anything about the ten commandments in the verse. No where in any of John's writings do we find the ten commandments are required for the Christian. The Gospel of John is very different from the others.

 

[BobRyan]

Kindly explain Rev 14:12. I don't see anything about the ten commandments in the verse.

Because you "assume" that the "Commandments of God cannot possibly include God's Ten Commandments"? Even though scripture calls the Ten Commandments the "Commandments of God"?

If you are making such an assumption - and of course you have free will so you can do that... what is supposed to be the objective reason that the rest of us might use for doing so?


10 Commandments are – the commandments of God

“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
5th Commandment: “Word of God” = “Commandment of God” = “Moses said” Mark 7:13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11 includes “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.”
NT Commandments Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

Eph 6:2 “the first commandment with a promise” in the TEN Commandments – is the fifth commandment

“Which Commandments?” – Matt 19:17-19
“‘You shall not murder,’
‘You shall not commit adultery,’
‘You shall not steal,’
‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

 

[BobRyan]

Looking for explanations and discussion on this verse.

We begin by quoting it.

"here is the patience of the saints - here are they who KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

John also writes 1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"

Eph 6:2 Paul tells us that the 5th commandment is "the FIRST Commandment with a promise" -- first in that still-valid-unit-of-Ten. A Bible point that even the Baptist Confession of Faith and Westminster Confession of Faith will admit.

And James 2 reminds us that in those commandments we find things like "Do not murder".

And of course I think all on this board would agree that we are "not to take God's name in vain" even though a direct quote of that command is found nowhere in the NT.

I do not see the word "ten" in your verse. John does not say anything about keeping the law in any of his letters.

John tells us this is God's commandment -
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. I Jn 3

Jesus says -
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. Jn 15

Jesus does not say keep His Father's commandments (10 Cs).

John also says -
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1See above.But not a command in Eph 6.Please keep religion out of this discussion. You get on to people for not presenting the Bible. You should rely on the same.So what. James does not require the keeping of the law. Not a single one of the good works James talks about are works of the law (10 Cs).Sure why would a lover do that?

bugkiller

I see... so since you never find John quoting "Honor your father and mother" and never find him quoting "do not take God's name in vain" is it then your claim that the Rev 14:12 statement about the saints "Keeping the Commandments of God" - can not possibly mean they were not taking God's name in vain and were in fact honoring their parents?

John says "This IS the Love of God - that we KEEP God's Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3.

Not Jesus' Words... the Father's Words! -- according to Jesus.
John 14
7 If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”
8 Philip *said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves

John 12:49
49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

John 8:38 38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father:

 

[BobRyan]

So what. James does not require the keeping of the law. Not a single one of the good works James talks about are works of the law (10 Cs).Sure why would a lover do that?
bugkiller

Until you take the time to read James 2.

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; (That is from Lev 19:18 -- in James' quote of it)

9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

(What Law? Ten Commandments? James will now quote from it for us)


11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[BobRyan]

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

 

[Rainrider]

Looking for explanations and discussion on this verse.

Having read the replies you have gotten to this point, I know that what I have to say will be meet with great resistance, and if anyone gives it a though, and looks at it openly, I will be shocked.
First let me tell you something about my self. This may well soften some of the replies I expect to get. I am not Jewish, nor do I wish to convert anyone to Judaism. Having followed the same teachings that are posted here in my life, I have found that though it is a theology many do follow,it lost it's appeal for me some 20 year ago.
I will not say they are rong and I am right, noe will I sit back and let anyone walk on my understanding, as it is sound. I wish to say this, as I have for 20 years now faced the kind of people that simply will not look at any teaching that is not their own. Even in the short time I have been on this forum, I have faced this. As I am sure I always will. I find this sad for many reasons, the most important reason, is that with out a open heart and mind, learning becomes impossible. That said, let me mov on to your question.
When one reads the Torah, it is divided into laws for the Jewish men, women, and the priest. There is also a section for the gentile. This is out side the 10 commandments. every time a person speaks of homosexuality as being a sin, or that one must give tithes, they open the door to laws out side the 10C.
It is with this that I find one must follow all the laws of HaShem, be it the 10C or any other that apply to them. It is how we show our love to HaShem. Do we need to follow all 613, no. Do we need to follow the 1050 in the NT, if it applies to you yes, if not then there is no need.
Before you can decide for your self, I think one should learn just what the new covenant is. That is what the Bible tells us, not what man thinks.
Jer 31:31
“The day is coming,” says the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah.

Jer 31:32
This covenant will not be like the one I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand and brought them out of the land of Egypt. They broke that covenant, though I loved them as a husband loves his wife,” says the LORD.

Jer 31:33
“But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day,” says the LORD. “I will put my instructions deep within them, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
As we can see the only thing that has changed is where the covenant is written. He doesn't tell us He will remove His laws, or that we won't need them. The phrase new covenant is used 9 times in the NT. When Yeshua tells his followers,
Luk 22:20
After supper he took another cup of wine and said, “This cup is the new covenant between God and his people—an agreement confirmed with my blood, which is poured out as a sacrifice for you."
Is the one I will look at. Here as can be seen their is no talk of the Laws being removed. I leave it to you to study this out. I can not place a thing on your heart, though it does seem The Spirit has already done so.
I am now ready to face the wrath I know full well is headed my way. Keep in mind folks, I have had to answer this topic for my self, and have done years of study to find what is right in my heart.

 

[BobRyan]

After supper he took another cup of wine and said, “This cup is the new covenant between God and his people—an agreement confirmed with my blood, which is poured out as a sacrifice for you."
Is the one I will look at. Here as can be seen their is no talk of the Laws being removed. I leave it to you to study this out. I can not place a thing on your heart, though it does seem The Spirit has already done so.
I am now ready to face the wrath I know full well is headed my way. Keep in mind folks, I have had to answer this topic for my self, and have done years of study to find what is right in my heart.

No wrath coming - only blessings in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ!

 

[Rainrider]

No wrath coming - only blessings in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ!

Just seen your SDA. I was raised as a kid in the SDA. When I returned to it last year, after many years of looking for a place to call home, I was greeted rather coldly in this church. The Long story, one I will not get into on an open forum. It is wrong to openly speak ill of any church. Needless to say it why I now do a home church, and that has been the biggest blessing I never seen coming.