Rev 14:12, what does it mean?

[BobRyan]

"Commandments of God" Rev 14:12
Mark 7:6-13 Christ says that includes the TEN Commandments.
Eph 6:2 says that includes the unit of TEN Commandments where the 5th commandment is the "first Commandment with a promise"

My bible has 66 books in it.

My bible already has 66 books in it. No need to add.

So it does. What you post is no evidence Rev 14:12 is talking about the 10 Cs.
bugkiller

Until you read the post and the texts referenced

Hint: John wrote John 14:15 AND Rev 14:12.

You do not want to talk about John writings? Why the avoidance and change of subject matter?

bugkiller

I find your logic "illusive"

 

[klutedavid]

God so loved the World that He gave His only Son - John 3:16. What is more He gave us the New Covenant where the "LAW of God is written on the heart" Jeremiah 31:31-33

Hello Bob.

What is the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant?

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

What is the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant?

under the old Covenant the LAW of God is external and tells you that you need a Savior. See Rom 3:19-21. So then under that system it is sin to take God's name in vain.

Under the New Covenant - we have the new Birth and the LAW of God is written on the heart - we "Establish the LAW" Rom 3:31 -- and still it is a sin to take God's name in vain.

Now you and I and probably everyone reading this is going to say this is very obvious. But I like it when we can agree on the easy part.

 

[klutedavid]

under the old Covenant the LAW of God is external and tells you that you need a Savior. See Rom 3:19-21. So then under that system it is sin to take God's name in vain.

Under the New Covenant - we have the new Birth and the LAW of God is written on the heart - we "Establish the LAW" Rom 3:31 -- and still it is a sin to take God's name in vain.

Now you and I and probably everyone reading this is going to say this is very obvious. But I like it when we can agree on the easy part.

Hello Bob.

So under the old covenant the law is written on stone, external.

Then under the new covenant the law is written on the heart, internal.

Do you agree?

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

So under the old covenant the law is written on stone, external.

Whether spoken - such that Cain "commits sin" when he killed his brother - regardless of the fact there was "no stone with words on it" -- or written. Under the Old Covenant it is external.

Then under the new covenant the law is written on the heart, internal.

Do you agree?

Yes - both have the command to not take God's name in vain - but in one case the Word of God - the Commands of God are known yet merely external - and opposed to the nature of the sinner, while in the second case - the word of God is internal not merely external and so Paul shows us the contrast clearly in Romans 8:4-10 with the lost being at war with God's Law and the saints complying with it - having the Holy Spirit within them. The Holy Spirit is the author of Scripture - as it turns out.

So then we may have some opportunity to read the Ten Commandments to an atheist - but as we saw in the news recently he is likely to just try and run over them with his car.

 

[bugkiller]

Until you read the post and the texts referenced

Hint: John wrote John 14:15 AND Rev 14:12.



I find your logic "illusive"

How nice of you to edit your previous post to include your verse from John after my response. Most people will not notice the edit comment in the bottom right hand of your post. Date and time stamps are very important details which I notice.

Now you mention Jn 14:15 as though is says "ten" commandments and not "my" commandments. There is no word from original text indicating the 10 Cs in your verse. The word in the original text and is a possessive pronoun.

I know your church teaches Jesus gave the 10 Cs to Israel. Nothing found in John's writings indicate the 10 Cs or the keeping of the law as a requirement.

There are two comparative statements found in John showing Jesus was not claiming possession of the 10 Cs as from Him.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Whether spoken - such that Cain "commits sin" when he killed his brother - regardless of the fact there was "no stone with words on it" -- or written. Under the Old Covenant it is external.



Yes - both have the command to not take God's name in vain - but in one case the Word of God - the Commands of God are known yet merely external - and opposed to the nature of the sinner, while in the second case - the word of God is internal not merely external and so Paul shows us the contrast clearly in Romans 8:4-10 with the lost being at war with God's Law and the saints complying with it - having the Holy Spirit within them. The Holy Spirit is the author of Scripture - as it turns out.

So then we may have some opportunity to read the Ten Commandments to an atheist - but as we saw in the news recently he is likely to just try and run over them with his car.

You fail to notice Bible details. Moses says Cain did not have the law issued to Israel in Deut 5:3.

bugkiller

 

[klutedavid]

Whether spoken - such that Cain "commits sin" when he killed his brother - regardless of the fact there was "no stone with words on it" -- or written. Under the Old Covenant it is external.



Yes - both have the command to not take God's name in vain - but in one case the Word of God - the Commands of God are known yet merely external - and opposed to the nature of the sinner, while in the second case - the word of God is internal not merely external and so Paul shows us the contrast clearly in Romans 8:4-10 with the lost being at war with God's Law and the saints complying with it - having the Holy Spirit within them. The Holy Spirit is the author of Scripture - as it turns out.

So then we may have some opportunity to read the Ten Commandments to an atheist - but as we saw in the news recently he is likely to just try and run over them with his car.

Hello Bob.

Speaking of the commandments, how do you explain the following verses.

1 Corinthians 14
37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. 38 But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. 39 Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. 40 But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

Speaking of the commandments, how do you explain the following verses.

1 Corinthians 14
37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. 38 But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. 39 Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. 40 But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.

Easy--- NT commands are authoritative just as the "scriptures" that they said they were reading and studying that we call the OT. As we both already know.

Again I am not sure that any of the Bible students on this section of the board would argue that this is not the easy and obvious part.

 

[BobRyan]

How nice of you to edit your previous post to include your verse from John after my response.

Thanks. It is my pleasure to point out that Revelation 14:12 and John 14:15 are both written by the same author. I enjoy quoting him.

So also 1 John 5:2-3 where we find that "This IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments".

So also John 12 and John 14 where John reminds us that Christ speaks only the Commandments given by the Father... not His own Words.

As we already saw here --

John 14
9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 12
49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

Matt 19
17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

As I understand it - you too enjoy the writings of John. One author among many that wrote what we call 'scripture'.

My Bible has 66 books.

 

[klutedavid]

Easy--- NT commands are authoritative just as the "scriptures" that they said they were reading and studying that we call the OT. As we both already know.

Again I am not sure that any of the Bible students on this section of the board would argue that this is not the easy and obvious part.

Hello Bob.

Do you agree that this is one of the Lord's commandments?

1 Corinthians 14
34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

So under the old covenant the law is written on stone, external.

Whether spoken - such that Cain "commits sin" when he killed his brother - regardless of the fact there was "no stone with words on it" -- or written. Under the Old Covenant it is external.

Then under the new covenant the law is written on the heart, internal.

Do you agree?

Yes - both have the command to not take God's name in vain - but in one case the Word of God - the Commands of God are known yet merely external - and opposed to the nature of the sinner, while in the second case - the word of God is internal not merely external and so Paul shows us the contrast clearly in Romans 8:4-10 with the lost being at war with God's Law and the saints complying with it - having the Holy Spirit within them. The Holy Spirit is the author of Scripture - as it turns out.

New Covenant Jer 31:31-33 and Hebrews 8:6-10 the same in OT and NT.

So then we may have some opportunity to read the Ten Commandments to an atheist - but as we saw in the news recently he is likely to just try and run over them with his car.

Hello Bob.

Speaking of the commandments, how do you explain the following verses.

1 Corinthians 14
37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. 38 But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. 39 Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. 40 But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.

Truly a sharp "turn" in your question about the "New Covenant"

What happened???

Hello Bob.

Do you agree that this is one of the Lord's commandments?

1 Corinthians 14
34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.

Women in my church women not only sing during congregational singing, they also LEARN while in church as they hear the sermon.

Are you challenging this practice with 1 Cor 14?

If so -- then "read the details" in the chapter to find your mistake.

1 Cor 14
26 What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.

Do you agree this is inspired by God?

BTW nothing in the OT says that women cannot sing or speak in church. Rather Deborah a prophetess of God speaks not only the Word of God in the assembly - but judges all Israel. And the prophetess Anna speaks in the sanctuary - even before Christ has commissioned the disciples - while He is an infant.

"The context" is that they were not to be asking questions in the middle of the service and disrupting it - all over the congregation.

1 Cor 14
34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. 35 If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

 

[listed]

Until you read the post and the texts referenced

Hint: John wrote John 14:15 AND Rev 14:12.



I find your logic "illusive"

Darn I missed it again. Maybe I need a different Bible. Mine just doesn't seem to have the word "ten " in John 14:15.

 

[listed]

under the old Covenant the LAW of God is external and tells you that you need a Savior. See Rom 3:19-21. So then under that system it is sin to take God's name in vain.

Under the New Covenant - we have the new Birth and the LAW of God is written on the heart - we "Establish the LAW" Rom 3:31 -- and still it is a sin to take God's name in vain.

Now you and I and probably everyone reading this is going to say this is very obvious. But I like it when we can agree on the easy part.

We don't have the covenant law given to Israel written on our heart according to both Jeremiah and Hebrews.

 

[listed]

Whether spoken - such that Cain "commits sin" when he killed his brother - regardless of the fact there was "no stone with words on it" -- or written. Under the Old Covenant it is external.



Yes - both have the command to not take God's name in vain - but in one case the Word of God - the Commands of God are known yet merely external - and opposed to the nature of the sinner, while in the second case - the word of God is internal not merely external and so Paul shows us the contrast clearly in Romans 8:4-10 with the lost being at war with God's Law and the saints complying with it - having the Holy Spirit within them. The Holy Spirit is the author of Scripture - as it turns out.

So then we may have some opportunity to read the Ten Commandments to an atheist - but as we saw in the news recently he is likely to just try and run over them with his car.

Are you posting for the lost or trying to reach them? If so you're posting in the wrong section of the forum. All posters here are professed Christians which you're required too accept by the rules.

We're not at war with the law. We're for the most part new covenant believers and participating in that covenant. We don't participate in the old covenant in part or whole even though most churches preach a mix of covenants.

 

[listed]

Thanks. It is my pleasure to point out that Revelation 14:12 and John 14:15 are both written by the same author. I enjoy quoting him.

So also 1 John 5:2-3 where we find that "This IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments".

So also John 12 and John 14 where John reminds us that Christ speaks only the Commandments given by the Father... not His own Words.

As we already saw here --



As I understand it - you too enjoy the writings of John. One author among many that wrote what we call 'scripture'.

My Bible has 66 books.

Still nothing showing John is talking about the ten commandments. What you're trying to imply is your verses are talking about the law. You simply have pronouns misaligned or ignored. You also must ignore other passages not supporting your POV. It is very unreasonable to believe the Scripture is inspired by God and have conflict.

 

[BobRyan]

We don't have the covenant law given to Israel written on our heart

Not true according to Jeremiah 31:31-33

In Bible study and exegesis - context is everything.

Jeremiah and his readers already knew the "Law of God" and Christ refers to the "Law and the prophets" in Matthew 22.

 

[BobRyan]

Still nothing showing John is talking about the ten commandments.

Until you notice 'the details' in the texts just quoted above --

let's see those details "again"


John 14
9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 12
49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

Matt 19
17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.

 

[BobRyan]

It is very unreasonable to believe the Scripture is inspired by God and have conflict.

Indeed. I would suggest not doing that.

 

[listed]

Not true according to Jeremiah 31:31-33

In Bible study and exegesis - context is everything.

Jeremiah and his readers already knew the "Law of God" and Christ refers to the "Law and the prophets" in Matthew 22.

Please explain verse 32 from Jeremiah 31.