Rev 14:12, what does it mean?

[BobRyan]

For those interested in the actual topic of this thread --

Here we see the OP quoted. Followed by a great suggestion to actually quote the text that is the subject of the thread --

Looking for explanations and discussion on this verse.

We begin by quoting it.

"here is the patience of the saints - here are they who KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

John also writes 1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"

Eph 6:2 Paul tells us that the 5th commandment is "the FIRST Commandment with a promise" -- first in that still-valid-unit-of-Ten. A Bible point that even the Baptist Confession of Faith and Westminster Confession of Faith will admit.

And James 2 reminds us that in those commandments we find things like "Do not murder".

And of course I think all on this board would agree that we are "not to take God's name in vain" even though a direct quote of that command is found nowhere in the NT.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

For those interested in the actual topic of this thread

just from the title and the Scripture, here's a footnote:

2 It is quite clear that at this time the true
believers in Yahshua are keeping the Torah in faith and obedience to the one who wrote it, (Rev 19:13, Joh 1:1-3, 14).

 

[bugkiller]

For those interested in the actual topic of this thread --

Here we see the OP quoted. Followed by a great suggestion to actually quote the text that is the subject of the thread --




We begin by quoting it.

"here is the patience of the saints - here are they who KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

John also writes 1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"

Eph 6:2 Paul tells us that the 5th commandment is "the FIRST Commandment with a promise" -- first in that still-valid-unit-of-Ten. A Bible point that even the Baptist Confession of Faith and Westminster Confession of Faith will admit.

And James 2 reminds us that in those commandments we find things like "Do not murder".

And of course I think all on this board would agree that we are "not to take God's name in vain" even though a direct quote of that command is found nowhere in the NT.

Can you show us any verse in which John names the 10 Cs? That would go along ways for your proof.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Can you show us any verse in which John names the 10 Cs? That would go along ways for your proof.

bugkiller

Can you show us any verse where Jude quotes the commandment to Love God with all the heart or quotes the commandment to not take God's name in vain?

Can you show us any verse where John says "ignore scripture" or "scripture is no longer the Word of God"??

How about where John says "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"? Rev 14:12. I think we can find that one.

How about where John says "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3?

Or where CHRIST says that that "Moses Said" is the "Word of God" and that the Ten Commandments are included in what HE considered to be the "Commandments of God" in Mark 7:6-13?

OR where Paul says that the 5th Commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 - in that still valid unit of TEN.

 

[listed]

For those interested in the actual topic of this thread --

Here we see the OP quoted. Followed by a great suggestion to actually quote the text that is the subject of the thread --

We begin by quoting it.

"here is the patience of the saints - here are they who KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

John also writes 1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"

Eph 6:2 Paul tells us that the 5th commandment is "the FIRST Commandment with a promise" -- first in that still-valid-unit-of-Ten. A Bible point that even the Baptist Confession of Faith and Westminster Confession of Faith will admit.

And James 2 reminds us that in those commandments we find things like "Do not murder".

And of course I think all on this board would agree that we are "not to take God's name in vain" even though a direct quote of that command is found nowhere in the NT.

Very good. Now where does Rev 14:12 say "ten"? I didn't find it in any version or your quote. I didn't see it in your quote from 1 John either. Are you adding to Scripture? You need either a verse with the words "ten commandments" or quoting at least one of them from John for contextual proof. John is very different form other authors in the NT.

 

[listed]

Can you show us any verse in which John names the 10 Cs? That would go along ways for your proof.

bugkiller

After reading BR's response to your post it must be obvious he can't because he didn't.

 

[listed]

Can you show us any verse where Jude quotes the commandment to Love God with all the heart or quotes the commandment to not take God's name in vain?

Can you show us any verse where John says "ignore scripture" or "scripture is no longer the Word of God"??

How about where John says "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"? Rev 14:12. I think we can find that one.

How about where John says "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3?

Or where CHRIST says that that "Moses Said" is the "Word of God" and that the Ten Commandments are included in what HE considered to be the "Commandments of God" in Mark 7:6-13?

OR where Paul says that the 5th Commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 - in that still valid unit of TEN.

You refuse to accept Jeremiah 31:32. You refuse to accept John 1:17 and other verses in John which don't agree with your theology.

 

[BobRyan]

Can you show us any verse in which John names the 10 Cs? That would go along ways for your proof.

bugkiller

Can you show us any verse where Jude quotes the commandment to Love God with all the heart or quotes the commandment to not take God's name in vain?

Can you show us any verse where John says "ignore scripture" or "scripture is no longer the Word of God"??

How about where John says "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"? Rev 14:12. I think we can find that one.

How about where John says "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3?

Or where CHRIST says that that what "Moses Said" is the "Word of God" and that the Ten Commandments are included in what HE considered to be the "Commandments of God" in Mark 7:6-13?

OR where Paul says that the 5th Commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 - in that still valid unit of TEN.

You refuse to accept Jeremiah 31:32.

hint: nothing in that post claims to reject Jeremiah 31:32

You refuse to accept John 1:17 and other verses in John which don't agree with your theology.

hint: nothing in that post claims to reject John 1:17

Your post makes the false accusation but never attempts to prove it. Let's have discussion "instead".

 

[BobRyan]

Very good. Now where does Rev 14:12 say "ten"?

"Commandments of God" Rev 14:12
Mark 7:6-13 Christ says that includes the TEN Commandments.
Eph 6:2 says that includes the unit of TEN Commandments where the 5th commandment is the "first Commandment with a promise"


My bible has 66 books in it.

I didn't find it in any version or your quote. I didn't see it in your quote from 1 John either. Are you adding to Scripture?

My bible already has 66 books in it. No need to add.

 

[bugkiller]

Can you show us any verse where Jude quotes the commandment to Love God with all the heart or quotes the commandment to not take God's name in vain?

Can you show us any verse where John says "ignore scripture" or "scripture is no longer the Word of God"??

How about where John says "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"? Rev 14:12. I think we can find that one.

How about where John says "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3?

Or where CHRIST says that that "Moses Said" is the "Word of God" and that the Ten Commandments are included in what HE considered to be the "Commandments of God" in Mark 7:6-13?

OR where Paul says that the 5th Commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 - in that still valid unit of TEN.

Ok you can't do as asked. You have absolutely nothing to base you claim on the commandments of God in Rev 14:12 are in fact the 10 Cs.

I would like to address your question -

Can you show us any verse where John says "ignore scripture" or "scripture is no longer the Word of God"??

Since you asked me, why do you routinely ignore my verses? Why do you ignore half sentences even from your partial quotes? It should be obvious to the whole world nothing in your argument is valid because either you can't or won't answer my question.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

After reading BR's response to your post it must be obvious he can't because he didn't.

Think you are correct.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

"Commandments of God" Rev 14:12
Mark 7:6-13 Christ says that includes the TEN Commandments.
Eph 6:2 says that includes the unit of TEN Commandments where the 5th commandment is the "first Commandment with a promise"


My bible has 66 books in it.



My bible already has 66 books in it. No need to add.

So it does. What you post is no evidence Rev 14:12 is talking about the 10 Cs.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

"Commandments of God" Rev 14:12
Mark 7:6-13 Christ says that includes the TEN Commandments.
Eph 6:2 says that includes the unit of TEN Commandments where the 5th commandment is the "first Commandment with a promise"

My bible has 66 books in it.

My bible already has 66 books in it. No need to add.

So it does. What you post is no evidence Rev 14:12 is talking about the 10 Cs.
bugkiller

Until you read the post and the texts referenced

Hint: John wrote John 14:15 AND Rev 14:12.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Until you read the post and the texts referenced

Even if they read, it is
Only YHWH Who might some day remove the veil from the mind that does not understand. If He Pleases. And not for those who are disobedient willfully, willingly unrepentant.

 

[BobRyan]

God so loved the World that He gave His only Son - John 3:16. What is more He gave us the New Covenant where the "LAW of God is written on the heart" Jeremiah 31:31-33

 

[bugkiller]

Can you show us any verse where Jude quotes the commandment to Love God with all the heart or quotes the commandment to not take God's name in vain?

Can you show us any verse where John says "ignore scripture" or "scripture is no longer the Word of God"??

How about where John says "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"? Rev 14:12. I think we can find that one.

How about where John says "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3?

Or where CHRIST says that that what "Moses Said" is the "Word of God" and that the Ten Commandments are included in what HE considered to be the "Commandments of God" in Mark 7:6-13?

OR where Paul says that the 5th Commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 - in that still valid unit of TEN.



hint: nothing in that post claims to reject Jeremiah 31:32



hint: nothing in that post claims to reject John 1:17

Your post makes the false accusation but never attempts to prove it. Let's have discussion "instead".

You do not want to talk about John writings? Why the avoidance and change of subject matter?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Until you read the post and the texts referenced

Nothing in your post had anything to do with John.

bugkiller

 

[Bob S]

The law of God could be several things. Adam had laws from God not to eat of the tree. God gave Noah laws. God gave Abraham laws. God gave Israel laws and Jesus (God) gave Christians laws.

Which set of laws do you all believe is what God has written on our hearts? I, for one, have never been persuaded by the law within me to keep old covenant ritual laws. I have been convicted to love my fellow man. What is your conviction experience?

 

[listed]

The law of God could be several things. Adam had laws from God not to eat of the tree. God gave Noah laws. God gave Abraham laws. God gave Israel laws and Jesus (God) gave Christians laws.

Which set of laws do you all believe is what God has written on our hearts? I, for one, have never been persuaded by the law within me to keep old covenant ritual laws. I have been convicted to love my fellow man. What is your conviction experience?

For them they've conflated all law into the law issued at Sinai. As you note there are different sets of law. The law issued at Sinai clearly is to set a group of people apart from the rest of the world. Those laws are antagonistic with the law (covenant) issued to Noah. Whatever law Abraham obeyed wasn't the same law given to Israel by the words of Moses.

 

[Bob S]

For them they've conflated all law into the law issued at Sinai. As you note there are different sets of law. The law issued at Sinai clearly is to set a group of people apart from the rest of the world. Those laws are antagonistic with the law (covenant) issued to Noah. Whatever law Abraham obeyed wasn't the same law given to Israel by the words of Moses.

Amen!