Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists

[BABerean2]

No , there is no more Jew or Gentile after you are born again , simply Church .
Better promises .
There were no gentiles in crowd . You are just making assumptions .
It was during a feast where Jews from all nations came to worship because Law of Moses told them so they had different languages .

What did Peter say below?

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

.

 

[The Times]

Silence!

 

[The Times]

 

[Dave L]

I have two questions for you....please.....

When did the resurrection happen?

When does one possess eternal life?

Are you in possession of eternal life, in the here and now?

Jesus says whoever believes in him has eternal life.

“He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.” (John 3:36)

“and he raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,” (Ephesians 2:6)

 

[The Times]

Gospel is defined by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

You are not promised any kingdom nor any land you are taken out of this world and have mansion in heaven

To a Caninite God is a real estate agent who procures land and then moves in to rule from that land, that is not to say, that created it in the first place, so go figure!

 

[Dave L]

This is not how exegesis works. Please present your contention scriptural and do correct me. Your reply is giving me an impression that you are conceding without a fight. Please fight back with a sound and compelling exegesis argument.

You cannot produce scripture for something that doesn't exist in scripture.

 

[The Times]

Jesus says whoever believes in him has eternal life.

“He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.” (John 3:36)

“and he raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,” (Ephesians 2:6)

So, from what I gather so far from your claims, in the absence of compelling exegesis arguments, that you have been already resurrected and are seated with Jesus in the heavenly realms, where heavenly realms could mean in the figurative and not in a tangible sense of actually being with the risen Christ. So in essence you as a witness of Christ, are in possession of your eternal inheritance and ultimately as Paul would term it your Crown of Righteousness.

Have I got it right, this far?

 

[The Times]

You cannot produce scripture for something that doesn't exist in scripture.

How so?

If I said the book of Revelation was written well after 70AD, well after the Church came out of hiding from her enemies, would that mean, my ability to prove this exegetically is none existent in scripture?

 

[Dave L]

How so?

If I said the book of Revelation was written well after 70AD, well after the Church came out of hiding from her enemies, would that mean, my ability to prove this exegetically is none existent in scripture?

This misses the point. The point is the "rapture" happens on the last day after the resurrection.

 

[Dave L]

So, from what I gather so far from your claims, in the absence of compelling exegesis arguments, that you have been already resurrected and are seated with Jesus in the heavenly realms, where heavenly realms could mean in the figurative and not in a tangible sense of actually being with the risen Christ. So in essence you as a witness of Christ, are in possession of your eternal inheritance and ultimately as Paul would term it your Crown of Righteousness.

Have I got it right, this far?

If the church is Christ's body, how can we not be seated with him in heaven, presently?

 

[The Times]

This misses the point. The point is the "rapture" happens on the last day after the resurrection.

So, when did the resurrection happen?

This is the second time I am asking you and your stalling me.

 

[The Times]

If the church is Christ's body, how can we not be seated with him in heaven, presently?

So, the term heaven you are using is figurative and is not a real and tangible focal point that the Apostles were looking forward to, is that right?

Paul when he was to be biologically killed, said, now there is in store for me the Crown of Life that the righteous Judge will give me on that Day. Your post #109 "last day", remember?

What about John the Apostle who was given the Revelation of Jesus, he said......

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

So, neither of these Apostles believed that they were in possession of their eternal inheritance, or had been resurrected in a figurative sense, rather they looked forward to something that they did not have.

Did John believe he was sitting in the Heavenly place with Jesus, when he says we don't know what we will be, until we see Jesus and become like him. Is he seated with Jesus, in the Heavenly place?

 

[Dave L]

So, the term heaven you are using is figurative and is not a real and tangible focal point that the Apostles were looking forward to, is that right?

Paul when he was to be biologically killed, said, now there is in store for me the Crown of Life that the righteous Judge will give me on that Day. Your post #109 "last day", remember?

What about John the Apostle who was given the Revelation of Jesus, he said......

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

So, neither of these Apostles believed that they were in possession of their eternal inheritance, or had been resurrected in a figurative sense, rather they looked forward to something that they did not have.

Did John believe he was sitting in the Heavenly place with Jesus, when he says we don't know what we will be, until we see Jesus and become like him. Is he seated with Jesus, in the Heavenly place?

You can interpret it as you like.

 

[The Times]

You can interpret it as you like.

Is this a statement of conceding?

I should not be able to interpret as I like, it is wrong, I must be corrected and I asked and pleaded with you to correct me.

 

[Dave L]

Is this a statement of conceding?

I should not be able to interpret as I like, it is wrong, I must be corrected and I asked and pleaded with you to correct me.

I don't think we can come to an agreement. Simply stated, all rapture theories have no support from scripture or you and many others would be posting it. Not from obscure symbols and visions, but from the heart of the NT.

 

[The Times]

@Dave L
Full Preterists contend with me that the book of Revelation was published in 68AD, during the turbulent times.

Now, they claim....

They possessed eternal inheritance in the here and now and figuratively sat with Christ, in the Heavenly places during these turbulent times and that the resurrection of the bride happened then and that all was well....mmmmm......

Historically, the Church was beaten and chased out and in hiding and the last thing on their mind was the thought that they were victorious with Christ, when during war, everyone was running for their lives and no one was preaching the gospel, because it would not be conducive to do so during these times.

Then two to three decades later, Jesus instructs John to right to the seven churches in the Turkish provinces, by reprimanding them and then instructing them to preach yet again from the little sweet book called the Gospel.

Would it be appropriate for Jesus to reprimand his Church during the turbulent times of 68AD, whilst they are beaten and chased out and no one was conducive to hearing anything during war time?

Absolutely not!

So the purpose of the letters was three fold, to reprimand, to comfort the Church that the enemy (Beast and false prophet), as it has now been three decades after the fall of Jerusalem, and the removal of the persecuting false Pharisiacal religious system and the exiling of the sixth king, king Agrippa II to Rome, of the beast that isn't (70AD) and to preach yet again because it was now safe to do so.

Exegesis works because it ties everything together and you can almost live in that moment and think like those people thought.

Why would Jesus tell John to preach yet again to the many nations and languages and peoples, if there is a coalition of world armies under Rome, at the door of Jerusalem and the Church escaping to safer provinces in Turkey, away from the going on.

Exegesis works, because it is a method of interpreting historical books.

 

[Dave L]

@Dave L
Full Preterists contend with me that the book of Revelation was published in 68AD, during the turbulent times.

Now, they claim....

They possessed eternal inheritance in the here and now and figuratively sat with Christ, in the Heavenly places during these turbulent times and that the resurrection of the bride happened then and that all was well....mmmmm......

Historically, the Church was beaten and chased out and in hiding and the last thing on their mind was the thought that they were victorious with Christ, when during war, everyone was running for their lives and no one was preaching the gospel, because it would not be conducive to do so during these times.

Then two to three decades later, Jesus instructs John to right to the seven churches in the Turkish provinces, by reprimanding them and then instructing them to preach yet again from the little sweet book called the Gospel.

Would it be appropriate for Jesus to reprimand his Church during the turbulent times of 68AD, whilst they are beaten and chased out and no one was conducive to hearing anything during war time?

Absolutely not!

So the purpose of the letters was three fold, to reprimand, to comfort the Church that the enemy (Beast and false prophet), as it has now been three decades after the fall of Jerusalem, and the removal of the persecuting false Pharisiacal religious system and the exiling of the sixth king, king Agrippa II to Rome, of the beast that isn't (70AD) and to preach yet again because it was now safe to do so.

Exegesis works because it ties everything together and you can almost live in that moment and think like those people thought.

Why would Jesus tell John to preach yet again to the many nations and languages and peoples, if there is a coalition of world armies under Rome, at the door of Jerusalem and the Church escaping to safer provinces in Turkey, away from the going on.

This is nice to know but has nothing to do with the Rapture top dogs admitting they have no direct scriptural support.

 

[The Times]

This is nice to know but has nothing to do with the Rapture top dogs admitting they have no direct scriptural support.

It is an example in how you could use exegesis and to how we could have had dialogue with one another.

As a feedback to you, I found you were avoiding answering questions. This was the 1st red flag.

If you make a claim like the resurrection comes before the last day, then please answer for the third and final time my question.....

When did the resurrection happen?

 

[The Times]

@Dave L

Thankyou for the back and forth dialogue, have a good one.

 

[Chinchilla]

Yes, but if you believe in Christ you already have eternal life and are in his Kingdom. Jesus says the kingdom comes not with observation (physical millennium) but is within you.

Kingdom was for Jews , for me Jesus went to heaven to prepare a place for me , mansion in heaven .
John 14:3 King James Version (KJV)

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Also it cleary says I go where Jesus is , not Jesus goes where I am .