Prove me wrong: Every possible starting point to the 70 Weeks Prophecy faces insurmountable problems

[Douggg]

The Ezra 6:14 Challenge! A set of facts about the 70 Weeks Prophecy that ALL interpretations must be weighed against. Only one interpretation - the correct one - can pass this test.

Ezra 6:15 says the temple was completed in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the king. Darius reigned as king from 552 BC to586 BC.

So 522 - 6 years would be 516, then there was the dedication of the new temple. Show the temple construction on your chart.

 

[Douggg]

The Ezra 6:14 Challenge! A set of facts about the 70 Weeks Prophecy that ALL interpretations must be weighed against. Only one interpretation - the correct one - can pass this test.

Your attempted retranslation of Daniel 9 in the video does not agree with Hebrew to English translation of the Tanach Daniel 9 - that the Jews themselves did at the Chabad.org site.

And when citing verses of Daniel 9, you did not cite the whole verse of Daniel 9:21, which is

21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

Daniel was referring to when he first encountered Gabriel in Daniel 8 and the vision about the time of the end little horn.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

The matter is that the 70 years of desolations of Jerusalem were about up. The vision is the 2300 day long vision of the little horn person of Daniel 8.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

They would not have headed west in the first place to Jerusalem if they were not following the star.

They rejoiced because the star they were following stopped and stood over the house, which had the manger, indicated where the new King of the Jews lay.

It did not "reappear". They saw where the star had stopped and were exceedingly happy because they knew they have found the exact house where the new King of the Jews was.

Again, that is not what the original text says. You can not get an accurate understanding from English translations. You MUST go to the original language text.

 

[Douggg]

@EclipseEventSigns

This chart is a work in progress. The big question is what was the first year of Darius the Mede ? From Uri Yosef, over at Messiah Truth, his research is that Darius ruled Babylon in 539 BCE. So I am showing that on my chart.

Backtracking 70 years from the following year 538 BC when Cyrus was the king of Babylon, and issued the decree, to allow the Jews to return, it takes us to 608 BC. Nabopolasser (Nebuchadnezzar's father) was the king of Babylon at that time. Nebuchadnezzar became king of Babylon in 604 BC.

I might also note that the 70 years to serve the king of Babylon - of that, 60 years were the Jews in captivity in Babylon, 597 - 537 BC. The rest of the time prior to that, Judea and Jerusalem were under the ruler ship of the king of Babylon - but still in their own land.

Before going into captivity, the Jews had made a pact with the Egyptians for protection. In 605 BC , their protection got defeated by Nebuchadnezzar. Then, because Jehoiakim, king of Judah, decided to with-hold tribute from the Babylonians, Nebuchadnezzar conquered Judea in 597 BC and took Jews captive to Babylon.

 

[Douggg]

I believe the "troublous times" during the building of the wall were brought about by Sanballat, Tobiah, the Arabians, the Ammonites, and the Ashdodites who heard about the building of the wall and were angered by this (Nehemiah 4:7-8). These all conspired to come against Jerusalem and to hinder this work.

I wonder if that is what happened in year 488 BC on the chart. I think 401 BC was when the wall was completed.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Your attempted retranslation of Daniel 9 in the video does not agree with Hebrew to English translation of the Tanach Daniel 9 - that the Jews themselves did at the Chabad.org site.

And when citing verses of Daniel 9, you did not cite the whole verse of Daniel 9:21, which is

21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

Daniel was referring to when he first encountered Gabriel in Daniel 8 and the vision about the time of the end little horn.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

The matter is that the 70 years of desolations of Jerusalem were about up. The vision is the 2300 day long vision of the little horn person of Daniel 8.

There are so many assumptions in that comment it's hard to deal with them all. But the main thing that makes this all moot is your assumption of what "the vision" means. The Hebrew word used there means "a pattern" or "a blueprint". It is not an ecstatic vision or dream. Gabriel used that word specifically to refer to the 3 groups of Weeks and the unstated gaps of Weeks between. The pattern of the prophecy of 70 Weeks.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Ezra 6:15 says the temple was completed in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the king. Darius reigned as king from 552 BC to586 BC.

So 522 - 6 years would be 516, then there was the dedication of the new temple. Show the temple construction on your chart.



View attachment 336381

Why would I need to show that information? The temple construction is not a start or end point in any of the Groups of Weeks. The 7 Weeks and the 62 Weeks are specifically to do with returning to and rebuilding Jerusalem - as it very clearly says in the prophecy. "Sub" and "bana".
God began the 7 Weeks with His word/promise that the return and rebuilding would happen. The end of the 7 Weeks is when Cyrus, God's messiah made a decree allowing that to happen. The 62 Weeks starts when the rebuilding of Jerusalem proper actually started. And as it says for the entire period of the 62 Weeks the walls, the temple and the city were constantly destroyed and rebuilt - many multiple times.

 

[Douggg]

Why would I need to show that information? The temple construction is not a start or end point in any of the Groups of Weeks.

The temple construction is not a start or end. But it is in one of the groups of weeks, being of substatnial importance because Cyrus issued the decree specific to its rebuilding.

God began the 7 Weeks with His word/promise that the return and rebuilding would happen.

Be specific, what year BC ?

 

[Douggg]

The 62 Weeks starts when the rebuilding of Jerusalem proper actually started. And as it says for the entire period of the 62 Weeks the walls, the temple and the city were constantly destroyed and rebuilt - many multiple times.

Be specific. What verse in Daniel 9 says that I highlighted in blue ? Copy and paste it.

 

[Douggg]

There are so many assumptions in that comment it's hard to deal with them all. But the main thing that makes this all moot is your assumption of what "the vision" means. The Hebrew word used there means "a pattern" or "a blueprint". It is not an ecstatic vision or dream. Gabriel used that word specifically to refer to the 3 groups of Weeks and the unstated gaps of Weeks between. The pattern of the prophecy of 70 Weeks.

Daniel immediately recognized Gabriel from the previous encounter with Gabriel in Daniel 8, as Gabriel told Daniel that the 2300 days of the little horn and the vision about him were time of the end. That vision.

The little horn and all of his activities are time of the end - the 70th week of Daniel 9.

 

[3 Resurrections]

I wonder if that is what happened in year 488 BC on the chart. I think 401 BC was when the wall was completed.

For the purposes of dating the beginning of the 70 weeks from the appropriate year of the right decree, it is not necessary to pin down exactly when the terms of that right decree were completed - however long it took.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Be specific. What verse in Daniel 9 says that I highlighted in blue ? Copy and paste it.

All these questions are in my video which I posted. That's the reason I posted it - so people could get the true interpretation and see how it all fits together.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Daniel immediately recognized Gabriel from the previous encounter with Gabriel in Daniel 8, as Gabriel told Daniel that the 2300 days of the little horn and the vision about him were time of the end. That vision.

The little horn and all of his activities are time of the end - the 70th week of Daniel 9.

If you don't understand the proper meaning of the Hebrew words, you will never understand the prophecy. As I already PROVED, your assumptions are incorrect because you read English translations and do not understand the Hebrew word meaning. It's like you don't even read my comments and check out the information. You constantly deflect everything into your own viewpoint no matter the evidences against them.

 

[Douggg]

All these questions are in my video which I posted. That's the reason I posted it - so people could get the true interpretation and see how it all fits together.

The first five minutes of your video is spent degrading the viewers that if they don't agree with you, then they must fit into one of the many categories you list - instead of letting your actual rationale rest on its own merits.

Who wants to watch a video that starts off with that kind of pre-conditioning to either agree with the forthcoming contents of your language based arguments or else you (the viewer) are an idiot and don't know anything?

Your video is a monologue. This forum is a dialogue, and group discussion.

The viewers of your video can not interject into your video each time you make an error.

Here, your view is subject to dialogue, and discussion. When you make a claim or statement here, be prepared to back it up with a copy and paste of the specific verse. It works the same for everyone here.

My post #109, for example, I think you owe the forum a copy and paste of the verse(s) in Daniel 9 that backs up your assertion. Or verse(s) from other parts of the bible.

If you are going to present to others how things fits together in the manner you claim, then make a timeline chart that contains all the elements relative to each other, like this one I made of the 7 year 70th week, and present it to the forum.

This particular chart features the critical path (the red line) of events that must be accomplished before the next event takes place, from day 1 to day 2520.

Communicating is an ongoing process for everyone, you, me... everyone. Charts are a great tool.

 

[Douggg]

If you don't understand the proper meaning of the Hebrew words, you will never understand the prophecy. As I already PROVED, your assumptions are incorrect because you read English translations and do not understand the Hebrew word meaning. It's like you don't even read my comments and check out the information. You constantly deflect everything into your own viewpoint no matter the evidences against them.

You have not "PROVED" anything. You are making assertions. And re-translating.

Pershaps you should do some research on the process the body of translators of the kjv employed in deriving their English language bible.

 

[David Kent]

Be specific. What verse in Daniel 9 says that I highlighted in blue ? Copy and paste it.

You are assuming that the accepted chronology is correct. It is based on Ptolmy's cannon which may not be correct. Martin Anstey, for instance says his time for Persian kings is 82 years to long. I disagree with him that the 62 weeks end at the crucifixion, I believe it was when John the Baptist anounced Jesus as "The Lamb of God" and then when "lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased". Matthew 3:17
Believe the scripture chronology, 483 years from the decree of Cyrus to Messiah the Prince.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

You have not "PROVED" anything. You are making assertions. And re-translating.

Pershaps you should do some research on the process the body of translators of the kjv employed in deriving their English language bible.

Yes, I have. Many times. You choose to ignore the facts and keep rehashing your view points. If you can disprove anything in the video presentation, please do so. But don't keep reposting things that have already been disproven.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

The first five minutes of your video is spent degrading the viewers that if they don't agree with you, then they must fit into one of the many categories you list - instead of letting your actual rationale rest on its own merits.

Who wants to watch a video that starts off with that kind of pre-conditioning to either agree with the forthcoming contents of your language based arguments or else you (the viewer) are an idiot and don't know anything?

Your video is a monologue. This forum is a dialogue, and group discussion.

The viewers of your video can not interject into your video each time you make an error.

Here, your view is subject to dialogue, and discussion. When you make a claim or statement here, be prepared to back it up with a copy and paste of the specific verse. It works the same for everyone here.

My post #109, for example, I think you owe the forum a copy and paste of the verse(s) in Daniel 9 that backs up your assertion. Or verse(s) from other parts of the bible.

If you are going to present to others how things fits together in the manner you claim, then make a timeline chart that contains all the elements relative to each other, like this one I made of the 7 year 70th week, and present it to the forum.

This particular chart features the critical path (the red line) of events that must be accomplished before the next event takes place, from day 1 to day 2520.

Communicating is an ongoing process for everyone, you, me... everyone. Charts are a great tool.




View attachment 336446

You totally misunderstand what this is all about. There can only be ONE correct interpretation. The Ezra 6:14 Challenge exists to put every potential interpretation on the same level playing field. There are 6 FACTS identified. If your interpretation can not properly explain and take into those facts, then it fails to meet the challenge and is by definition false. Truth by its very nature will be offensive to that which is false. A truly open mind weighs all options and does not just keep forcing its own [flawed] view repeatedly and endlessly.

 

[David Kent]

The first five minutes of your video is spent degrading the viewers that if they don't agree with you, then they must fit into one of the many categories you list - instead of letting your actual rationale rest on its own merits.

Who wants to watch a video that starts off with that kind of pre-conditioning to either agree with the forthcoming contents of your language based arguments or else you (the viewer) are an idiot and don't know anything?

Your video is a monologue. This forum is a dialogue, and group discussion.

The viewers of your video can not interject into your video each time you make an error.

Here, your view is subject to dialogue, and discussion. When you make a claim or statement here, be prepared to back it up with a copy and paste of the specific verse. It works the same for everyone here.

My post #109, for example, I think you owe the forum a copy and paste of the verse(s) in Daniel 9 that backs up your assertion. Or verse(s) from other parts of the bible.

If you are going to present to others how things fits together in the manner you claim, then make a timeline chart that contains all the elements relative to each other, like this one I made of the 7 year 70th week, and present it to the forum.

This particular chart features the critical path (the red line) of events that must be accomplished before the next event takes place, from day 1 to day 2520.

Communicating is an ongoing process for everyone, you, me... everyone. Charts are a great tool.




View attachment 336446:

The KJV margin notes for Daniel 9:27 gives a revefence to Matthew 26:28 which of course is correct.

Who, in your opinion is the little horn in Daniel 7?

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

You have not "PROVED" anything. You are making assertions. And re-translating.

Pershaps you should do some research on the process the body of translators of the kjv employed in deriving their English language bible.

The KJV translators made mistakes in Daniel 9. It is very easy to prove. There are no capital letters or lower case letters in Hebrew. Therefore, when the KJV has capital "Messiah:" and capital "Prince", that is their own bias they ADDED to the text. And this is the main reason anyone who uses the KJV will NEVER understand the prophecy correctly. Never.