Prove me wrong: Every possible starting point to the 70 Weeks Prophecy faces insurmountable problems

[David Kent]

No I wasn't reading a commentary just looking up scripture.
The discrepancy in dates in the KJV margin gives 10 years between the two accounts of the campaigns of Necho, and the two campaigns in reverse order, the earliest later.
Shows how much we can rely of recognised dates.

Since my last post, I did some searches on Hittites, and it seems that there kingdom at one time stretched way past Carchemish nearly to tyre. There was one claim that one Hittite prince was due to marry the widow of Tutankhamen but died on the journey, another that one princess married Ramses II to create an alliance. One stated that a remnant of the Hittite kingdom continued in Carchemish. The Hittites and Egyptians seemed to be allies some time.

2 Kiings 7:6 For the Lord had made the host of the Syrians to hear a noise of chariots, and a noise of horses, even the noise of a great host: and they said one to another, Lo, the king of Israel hath hired against us the kings of the Hittites, and the kings of the Egyptians, to come upon us.

So the Egyptians and Hittites must have been allies at that time.

 

[3 Resurrections]

In Nehemiah 2, we find that Nehemiah in Shushan, in Artaxerxes court, and the topic came up about the wall, and Nehemiah was granted permission by Artaxerxes to return to Jerusalem to build it. In the text, that happened in the 20th year of Artaxerxes rule (465-424 BC) - so Nehemiah returned to Jerusalem 444 BC and started the rebuilding process.

The 20th year of Artaxerxes I's rule has been misunderstood. He began a co-regency with his father Xerxes in 474 BC. Therefore, the 20th year of Artaxerxes I's rule would have fallen in 454 BC - the year of the decree in Nehemiah 2 when the walls of Jerusalem were rebuilt.

Ptolemy's canon does not acknowledge this co-regency period for Artaxerxes I with his father, and so the dates get confused on that account. Ussher's Annals of the World does acknowledge this co-regency, and dates the 70 weeks accordingly, beginning in 454 BC with the decree in Nehemiah 2. There is archaeological evidence for that year in Ussher's book mentioned by the editors which confirms Ussher's date of 454 BC: the correct year of the decree to rebuild the street and the wall of Jerusalem.

I appreciate your stating that your chart is a "work in progress". For myself, I have had to do considerable revision of some of the dates in my scriptural studies over the years, and I am still open to alterations if need be.

 

[Douggg]

No I wasn't reading a commentary just looking up scripture.
The discrepancy in dates in the KJV margin gives 10 years between the two accounts of the campaigns of Necho, and the two campaigns in reverse order, the earliest later.
Shows how much we can rely of recognised dates.

David, are you looking up scripture in an online kjv bible ? Or in a hard copy kjv bible that you are holding in your hand ?

I am thinking that you are reading some special edition bible.

The standard online kjv bible does not have dates in the margin. I use this one at this link. The site gives the option of reading either the "standard" (which I use) or the 1611 version or the 1769 Cambridge, versions.

OFFICIAL KING JAMES BIBLE ONLINE

King James Bible Online: Authorized King James Version (KJV) of the Bible- the preserved and living Word of God. Includes 1611 KJV and 1769 Cambridge KJV.

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

 

[BobRyan]

457 BC is the decree in Ezra 7 that starts the 490 year timeline because in Ezra 6 we are told that it is a 3 part decree - with Cyrus, Darius and Artaxerxes being the 3 kings issuing the decree.

Nehemiah says that the only thing done in his day was a repair of the wall that had already been built but suffered some damage at a later time.
Neh 6:15 " So the wall was completed on the twenty-fifth of the month Elul, in fifty-two days."

Work on the wall is reported in Ezra 4:12-13

Mark 1:14-15 Jesus is speaking and says "The time is fulfilled" - indicating that in AD 27 69th week of Dan 9 was complete.

=================================

Luke tells us that John began his ministry during "the fifteenth year of the rule of Tiberius Caesar." (Luke 3:1) - so then 26 AD is the start of John’s ministry

Tiberius Caesar ruled the Roman Empire after the death of his stepfather Augustus Caesar, who died in 14AD. It's often assumed, therefore, that John the Baptist's ministry began in 29AD - 15 years after the death of Augustus Caesar.

The Roman historian Suetonius, however, records that Tiberius became co-Emperor alongside the elderly and ailing Augustus in 12AD, two years before becoming sole Emperor on his death in 14AD. The 15th year of Tiberius's reign can therefore be dated more accurately as starting in 26AD.

 

[Douggg]

The 20th year of Artaxerxes I's rule has been misunderstood. He began a co-regency with his father Xerxes in 474 BC. Therefore, the 20th year of Artaxerxes I's rule would have fallen in 454 BC - the year of the decree in Nehemiah 2 when the walls of Jerusalem were rebuilt.

Ptolemy's canon does not acknowledge this co-regency period for Artaxerxes I with his father, and so the dates get confused on that account. Ussher's Annals of the World does acknowledge this co-regency, and dates the 70 weeks accordingly, beginning in 454 BC with the decree in Nehemiah 2. There is archaeological evidence for that year in Ussher's book mentioned by the editors which confirms Ussher's date of 454 BC: the correct year of the decree to rebuild the street and the wall of Jerusalem.

I appreciate your stating that your chart is a "work in progress". For myself, I have had to do considerable revision of some of the dates in my scriptural studies over the years, and I am still open to alterations if need be.

I am far from being an expert on some of the books in the Tanach.

Jeremiah, for example is not in Chronological order from chapter 21 to 52. Which makes it very confusing and difficult to understand. I did an internet search yesterday to see if there was any organization chart available and I looked at a video on the bible text timeline.

I only watched a couple of that series of videos, but one of them was on Jeremiah, and they had a link to an organizational chart on Jeremiah. Free use, allowed.

So I made a copy and saved it to my pictures folder I call "charts". Here it is. I think it is going to be a great study tool.

Jeremiah is structured in periods, according to whoever was the king of Judah at the time. The first 20 chapters are when Josiah was king (he reigned 31 years). The first column on the chart.

The are 52 chapters in Jeremiah.

To know when Josiah and other kings of Judah ruled, as far as what years, BCE, I am showing another table below which I got from Uri Yosef over at Messiah Truth, countermissionary site. It is also very helpful for information. And two other tables that Uri made for the rules of Babylon.

If you have multiple screen monitors (I have three), you can have a couple of charts open at the same time, while you read the text of the bible. The chart on the 5 sequential rulers of Judah and the years of rule is very helpful.

The king of Judah periods were.... first Josiah... then Jehoahaz (only 3 months).... then Jehoiakim....then Jehoiachin...then Zedekiah

 

[David Kent]

David, are you looking up scripture in an online kjv bible ? Or in a hard copy kjv bible that you are holding in your hand ?

I am thinking that you are reading some special edition bible.

The standard online kjv bible does not have dates in the margin. I use this one at this link. The site gives the option of reading either the "standard" (which I use) or the 1611 version or the 1769 Cambridge, versions.

OFFICIAL KING JAMES BIBLE ONLINE

King James Bible Online: Authorized King James Version (KJV) of the Bible- the preserved and living Word of God. Includes 1611 KJV and 1769 Cambridge KJV.

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

I was reading from a printed KJV bible. My online version doesn't have dates as you said.

Not the 1611. I thought the 1769 was the standard version. Mine is published by Word Bible publishers in USA. it doesn't say which edition it is. You are not one of those who think the only PURE KJV is the 1905 Cambridge are you?

 

[Douggg]

I was reading from a printed KJV bible. My online version doesn't have dates as you said.

Not the 1611. I thought the 1769 was the standard version. Mine is published by Word Bible publishers in USA. it doesn't say which edition it is. You are not one of those who think the only PURE KJV is the 1905 Cambridge are you?

I don't know what the 1905 Cambridge bible is.

I go by the standard version at that online kjv bible, at the link I gave you. The 1769 King James Bible.

The printed KJV bible you have - the Word Bible publishers version apparently has some commentary in the margin - that they decided to include.

 

[David Kent]

I don't know what the 1905 Cambridge bible is.

I go by the standard version at that online kjv bible, at the link I gave you. The 1769 King James Bible.

The printed KJV bible you have - the Word Bible publishers version apparently has some commentary in the margin - that they decided to include.

The KJV has always had notes. I once had one that had the apocrypha init as well.

 

[Douggg]

The KJV has always had notes. I once had one that had the apocrypha init as well.

David, no, it has not. Those notes in the margins are embellishments by the publishers.

I have a KJV hard copy that belonged to my grandfather, published by the World Publishing Company, in Cleveland Ohio. It does not have notes in the margins. The company ended in 1980. So the bible is well over 43 years old. I couldn't find a "published in" year in the bible. It was pretty much falling apart back in 2003. So I rarely open it.

How old is your bible ? Does it have a "published in" date?

 

[David Kent]

David, no, it has not. Those notes in the margins are embellishments by the publishers.

I have a KJV hard copy that belonged to my grandfather, published by the World Publishing Company, in Cleveland Ohio. It does not have notes in the margins. The company ended in 1980. So the bible is well over 43 years old. I couldn't find a "published in" year in the bible. It was pretty much falling apart back in 2003. So I rarely open it.

How old is your bible ? Does it have a "published in" date?

Doug I just did a search and KJV margin notes were in the 1611 edition. I tried to copy the link but it didn't work. GENEVA bible also always had notes.
The note for Daniel 8:13 "That certain saint." Is Heb. Palmoni anda second note says "Wonderful numberer or numberer of secrets.

I an remember my dad pointing that out to me when I was a teenager and that was over43 years ago.

 

[Douggg]

I an remember my dad pointing that out to me when I was a teenager and that was over43 years ago.

David, your profile indicates that your 85. 43 years ago, you would have been 42. (85-43 = 42). In England, is 42 considered a teenager?

Uh, on second thought, I think I misunderstood what you meant. I wrote at least before 43 years ago the bible I have with no margin comments was printed. So you are saying your experience as a teenager, which was well beyond 43 years ago, was the bibles you were reading, your dad pointed out to you the comments in the margin.

I think the bibles that you have always been exposed to had comments in the margins. But that does not mean it is the norm for the KJV.

I am 74.

I owe a lot to my grandfather. While he was living, I was not a Christian. I think he prayed for me to become one. Can't wait to see him again someday, in our eternal incorruptible bodies. He may be surprised at how things turned out.

 

[Douggg]

I appreciate your stating that your chart is a "work in progress". For myself, I have had to do considerable revision of some of the dates in my scriptural studies over the years, and I am still open to alterations if need be.

Yes, it is definitely a work in progress. I just found out that Daniel was take captive in Babylon in 604 BC.

It seems Nebuchadnezzar after defeating the Egyptians at Carchemish was chasing them as they were fleeing back to Egypt through Israel.

In the process, Nebuchadnezzar unexpectedly gets the new that his father Nebopolassar had died, vacating the throne in Babylon. So Nebuchadnezzar stops his chase and heads back to secure the throne. On his way, he stops in Jerusalem and takes the king Jehoiakim, who the Egyptians put in power, as captive to go back with him to Babylon.

Nebuchadnezzar also took some prominent Jews as well. A small group. Of which, one was Daniel.

So my latest chart looks like this....

 

[David Kent]

David, your profile indicates that your 85. 43 years ago, you would have been 42. (85-43 = 42). In England, is 42 considered a teenager?

Uh, on second thought, I think I misunderstood what you meant. I wrote at least before 43 years ago the bible I have with no margin comments was printed. So you are saying your experience as a teenager, which was well beyond 43 years ago, was the bibles you were reading, your dad pointed out to you the comments in the margin.

I think the bibles that you have always been exposed to had comments in the margins. But that does not mean it is the norm for the KJV.

I am 74.

I owe a lot to my grandfather. While he was living, I was not a Christian. I think he prayed for me to become one. Can't wait to see him again someday, in our eternal bodies. He may be surprised at how things turned out.

Dougg, I should have said "well over 43 years". It seems the original notes were inserted by the translators. Some kept over from the Bishops Bible.
Some have been added later.


I know people who prefer the 1560 Geneva bible, as they think it is more accurate than the KJV. King James would not allow the translators to use anything that went against the traditional teaching, which is why we have bishops instead of elders.

The Geneva bible was used by the Jamestown settlers and also those who came on the Mayflower.

 

[Douggg]

Dougg, I should have said "well over 43 years". It seems the original notes were inserted by the translators. Some kept over from the Bishops Bible.
Some have been added later.


I know people who prefer the 1560 Geneva bible, as they think it is more accurate than the KJV. King James would not allow the translators to use anything that went against the traditional teaching, which is why we have bishops instead of elders.

The Geneva bible was used by the Jamestown settlers and also those who came on the Mayflower.

David, I think we have ran the course on the footnote topic. I don't know everything in the world. And I can imagine that neither do you.

It is always a pleasure to discuss with you even if we disagree on some things. It is an imperfect world full of imperfect people, of which I am one, a saying that I came up with that helps me to maintain a stable outlook.

I am looking forward to the inevitable day we are in our everlasting eternal bodies, a gift from God, and the sacrfice of Christ. Which our rewards in heaven will be what we have done in this life for the cause of Christ. Be well.

 

[David Kent]

Why have we got feathers in a hat?

 

[Barraco]

One thing that Daniel never elaborated on was "the time of the end." That is the last week of years mentioned in Daniel 9:27. There is a pause in the sequence after the anointed one is cut off. If you start the 483 years from 520 BC, you land at 37 BC. That is the year that Herod the Great took over as king of Jerusalem, cutting off the Hasmonean Dynasty. About 70 years later, Jesus was crucified. Before Jesus was crucified, he said that the generation listening to His words would see the destruction of Jerusalem. 40 years later, the city and temple was destroyed. This started the Times of the Gentiles.

The Times of the Gentiles are what Daniel 9:25, Daniel 12:6, and Revelation 12:14 called "a time, times, and half a time." Revelation 11:2 and 13:5 called it "forty-two months." This is a time symbolic of the 3.5 years that the Jews fled Jerusalem during the reign of Antiochus IV Epiphanes. It represents Gentile rule and occupation and the cessation of sacrifices in the temple. Personally, I think a time, times, and half a time are 1,960 years (14 generations of 40 years multiplied 3.5 times).

I just cannot figure out yet if the seventieth week is included in that timeframe or comes after it. I'm currently on the side of the former. Revelation 19 suggests that Jesus slays the armies of the nations at His coming, not afterward. That would place the Two Witnesses in Jerusalem 3.5 to 7 years before the resurrection and return of Jesus.