Prove me wrong: Every possible starting point to the 70 Weeks Prophecy faces insurmountable problems

[David Kent]

You totally misunderstand what this is all about. There can only be ONE correct interpretation. The Ezra 6:14 Challenge exists to put every potential interpretation on the same level playing field. There are 6 FACTS identified. If your interpretation can not properly explain and take into those facts, then it fails to meet the challenge and is by definition false. Truth by its very nature will be offensive to that which is false. A truly open mind weighs all options and does not just keep forcing its own [flawed] view repeatedly and endlessly.

Ezra 6:14-15 And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia. And this house was finished on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the king.

 

[Douggg]

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[Douggg]

You totally misunderstand what this is all about. There can only be ONE correct interpretation. The Ezra 6:14 Challenge exists to put every potential interpretation on the same level playing field. There are 6 FACTS identified. If your interpretation can not properly explain and take into those facts, then it fails to meet the challenge and is by definition false. Truth by its very nature will be offensive to that which is false. A truly open mind weighs all options and does not just keep forcing its own [flawed] view repeatedly and endlessly.

This thread is about Daniel 9. If you want to discuss your so-called Ezra 6:14 challenge, start another thread.

And include the 6 facts you refer to, in your opening post.

 

[David Kent]

This thread is about Daniel 9. If you want to discuss your so-called Ezra 6:14 challenge, start another thread.

And include the 6 facts you refer to, in your opening post.

It all applies to Daniel 9, bro.so does a lot of Isaiah 44-45. Also to Daniel 5. That's a good study, I may start a thread on that.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

This thread is about Daniel 9. If you want to discuss your so-called Ezra 6:14 challenge, start another thread.

And include the 6 facts you refer to, in your opening post.

The Ezra 6:14 Challenge is entirely about the 70 Weeks prophecy. Or don't you consider Ezra and Nehmiah historical records?

 

[Douggg]

The Ezra 6:14 Challenge is entirely about the 70 Weeks prophecy. Or don't you consider Ezra and Nehmiah historical records?

The 7 weeks and 62 weeks and 1 week of Daniel 9 as given to Daniel by Gabriel are not mentioned in Ezra 6:14.

What is in Ezra 6:14, is activity regarding the 70 years of the prophecies in Jeremiah regarding serving the king of Babylon for 70 years, in Jeremiah 25, until the 70 weeks were up. And then afterward, the temple re-built.


Regarding the 70 years of serving the king of Babylon, initially 10 years not in captivity, followed by 60 years (in blue) in captivity in Babylon.

608 (Nebopolassar)... then 597 Nebuchadnezzar, captives taken ..... then 586 Nebuchadnezzar, temple destroyed.... then Darius 539 (Daniel 9:1) , then 538 Cyrus.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

The 7 weeks and 62 weeks and 1 week of Daniel 9 as given to Daniel by Gabriel are not mentioned in Ezra 6:14.

What is in Ezra 6:14, is activity regarding the 70 years of the prophecies in Jeremiah regarding serving the king of Babylon for 70 years, in Jeremiah 25.

Like huh? That's not even according to what the verse says. Ezra 6:14 doesn't even mention Babylon. LOL.

 

[Douggg]

Like huh? That's not even according to what the verse says. Ezra 6:14 doesn't even mention Babylon. LOL.

I also acknowledge that a person could reasonably argue "according to the commandment of God", it refers to the dimensions of the temple to be rebuilt to, and return of the vessels, given to Cyrus in Ezra 6:3-5. (isn't that your position? )

3 In the first year of Cyrus the king the same Cyrus the king made a decree concerning the house of God at Jerusalem, Let the house be builded, the place where they offered sacrifices, and let the foundations thereof be strongly laid; the height thereof threescore cubits, and the breadth thereof threescore cubits;

4 With three rows of great stones, and a row of new timber: and let the expenses be given out of the king's house:

5 And also let the golden and silver vessels of the house of God, which Nebuchadnezzar took forth out of the temple which is at Jerusalem, and brought unto Babylon, be restored, and brought again unto the temple which is at Jerusalem, every one to his place, and place them in the house of God.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

14 And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to [1] the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to [2] the commandment of Cyrus, and [3] Darius, and [4] Artaxerxes king of Persia.


Ezra 6:14 contains the reference to four commands in sequence of being issued. One of which was the command of Cyrus, and before Cyrus, the command of God.

Cyrus issued a decree in 538/537 BC, ending the 70 years of serving of the king of Babylon that the Jews be released from captivity in Babylon to return to Jerusalem allowing them to built the temple. That was noted in Ezra 6:3.

Before Cyrus's decree was the judgment of God, which through the prophet Jeremiah, the Jews were commanded to serve the King of Babylon for 70 years. Which is found in Jeremiah 25, verses 9, 11

So again. There is such a mix up of topics and misunderstanding. It's very common though.

Read again Jer 25:11. The land of Judah AND "these nations" would serve Babylon for 70 years. Then in verse 12, at the completion of 70 years then it is Babylon that is punished. Then refer to Jer 29:10 where God again says that when the 70 years are complete for Babylon. It's all tied to Babylon. The 70 years are NOT the number of years of exile. They are the length of time that Babylon was an empire.

From 609 BC (battle of Carchemish) to 539 BC (when Medes/Persians defeated them). 70 years.

Jerusalem was destroyed in 586 BC and the majority of the population removed to exile. 586 BC to 538 BC is not 70 years of exile. It's less than 50.

So you have to have a right understanding of history and the text in order get prophecy correct.

 

[Douggg]

Jerusalem was destroyed in 586 BC and the majority of the population removed to exile. 586 BC to 538 BC is not 70 years of exile. It's less than 50.

Actually in 596, Nebuchadnezzar conquered Judea and took captives, because the leadership of Judea stop paying tribute to the Babylonians.

I agree with you though that more captives were taken, in 586 when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. (because the leadership of the Jews, aligned themselves with the Egyptians.)

So 597 to 538/537 would be 60 years of captivity.

Take a look at my chart again of what caused Nebuchanezzar's action to conquer Judea first and then later destroy Jerusalem and the temple.

The purpose of the chart is to sort all of the activities and dates out to understand what happened - so we don't have to argue about it..

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

The 70 years has nothing whatsoever to do with exiles at all. Nothing. Nothing in the Bible anywhere says that. As I proved from the Bible itself, the 70 years have to do with Babylon as an empire.
And actually, Nebuchanezzar took exiles 3 times. 605 BC, 597 BC and 586 BC. The vast majority was in 586 after he destroyed the city.

 

[Douggg]

The 70 years are NOT the number of years of exile.

I agree.

They are the length of time that Babylon was an empire.

I would not say that because Nebopolasar (Nebuchadnessar's father) had already established the Babylonian empire. The 70 years is the length of time the Jews would have to serve the king of Babylon. But it does not mean 70 years in exile to Babylon... I agree with you on that part.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

The Babylonians became the dominant nation AFTER defeating the Assyrians/Egyptians at Carchemish in 609 BC. That's the start of the 70 years that Jeremiah talks about. 609 BC - 539 BC = 70 years. It's so plain to see.

 

[Douggg]

The 70 years has nothing whatsoever to do with exiles at all. Nothing. Nothing in the Bible anywhere says that

Cyrus ended the 70 years of the Jews having to serve the king of Babylon. 60 of which the Jews were in exile.

Daniel, himself, in Daniel 9:1 in the first year of Darius 539 BC, realized that the 70 years to serve the king of Babylon were about up.

Look at the chart again, top lines.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

It's no wonder you can't see the obvious numbers between the dates. You've got incorrect information. The Battle of Carchemish was in 609 not 608. And you do not list the defeat of Babylon in 539 (that's a pretty serious omission). And ignore the "captivity years". The Bible doesn't consider that as important.

 

[Douggg]

The Babylonians became the dominant nation AFTER defeating the Assyrians/Egyptians at Carchemish in 609 BC. That's the start of the 70 years that Jeremiah talks about. 609 BC - 539 BC = 70 years. It's so plain to see.

close, but 539 was the first year of Darius. 538 was the year of Cyrus. So 538 +70 would be 608 - indicating starting in 608 the Babylonians had dominion over Judea.

The battle of Carchemish was in 605...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Carchemish

 

[Douggg]

It's no wonder you can't see the obvious numbers between the dates. You've got incorrect information. The Battle of Carchemish was in 609 not 608. And you do not list the defeat of Babylon in 539 (that's a pretty serious omission). And ignore the "captivity years". The Bible doesn't consider that as important.

605

Battle of Carchemish - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

605

Battle of Carchemish - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

First, I don't consider anything on wikipedia as authorative. But even in text it confirms 609 BC as the end of the Assyrian empire.
"When Harran was captured by the alliance in 609 BC,[7] ending the Assyrian Empire, remnants of the Assyrian army joined Carchemish, a city under Egyptian rule, on the Euphrates. Egypt, a former vassal of Assyria, was allied with Assyrian King Ashur-uballit II and marched in 609 BC to his aid against the Babylonians"

 

[David Kent]

It's no wonder you can't see the obvious numbers between the dates. You've got incorrect information. The Battle of Carchemish was in 609 not 608. And you do not list the defeat of Babylon in 539 (that's a pretty serious omission). And ignore the "captivity years". The Bible doesn't consider that as important.

The city of Carchemish was a city of the Hittites, were they still around in 608? They were allies of Egypt

 

[Douggg]

First, I don't consider anything on wikipedia as authorative. But even in text it confirms 609 BC as the end of the Assyrian empire.
"When Harran was captured by the alliance in 609 BC,[7] ending the Assyrian Empire, remnants of the Assyrian army joined Carchemish, a city under Egyptian rule, on the Euphrates. Egypt, a former vassal of Assyria, was allied with Assyrian King Ashur-uballit II and marched in 609 BC to his aid against the Babylonians"

What is the source of your quote ? In Jeremiah 46 is the battle of Carchemish...

2 Against Egypt, against the army of Pharaohnecho king of Egypt, which was by the river Euphrates in Carchemish, which Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon smote in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah.

Jehoiakim was the king of Judah, 609-598. The fourth year of Jehoiakim would be 605. As I show on my chart - 605. And with what the Wikipedia article dates the battle of Carchemish - 605. The encyclopedia Britannica has the same thing - 605.

I improved my chart - by annotating "battle of Carchemiah" in the 605 event.