Originally posted by Manifestation1*AD70
To any Preterist who may be interested Ed Stevens is doing a studie on the repture and why there were no writting by any of the saint's 30 years after the return of the Lord.
If you would be interested in seeing some of his studies on this deep subject contack me at preterist1@earthlink.net And I will send it to you.
... "the whole world has gone after him" Did all the world go afterChrist? "then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan."Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem, baptized in Jordan? "Ye are of God,little children", and the whole world lieth in the wicked one". Doesthe whole world there mean everybody? The words "world" and "all" areused in some seven or eight senses in Scripture, and it is veryrarely the "all" means all persons, taken individually. The words aregenerally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts-- some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has notrestricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile ...
Originally posted by GW
Hi fellow preterists.
I think we can all agree that we are grateful for the work Ed Stevens has done and continues to do for the movement.
However, this recent paper of his is three steps backwards in the field of realized eschatology. It is a classic argument from silence with nothing but speculations. Each and every step of his reasoning could be countered with equally (or more) persuasive arguments.
By and large, Ed seems to have retained dispensationalist (or non-biblical) ideas about the NATURE of the return of Christ. We can never forget that these people were jews who expected Jesus to return in the glory of Yahweh. These jews have a thorough history of interpreting their historic outcomes, trumphs, and vindications as Yahweh's doings. In every case! Yet Yahweh never had to be optically seen for them to say He came and shot arrows and drew his sword down upon the heads of their enemies and such. Never.
Ed writes his article as if the Old Testament language shouldn't set the context for how the N.T. jews expected their vindication to occur. Just read Isaiah 34 to see what Yahweh did to O.T. Edom! Was any of that a visible, optical Yahweh? No. But look at the language they use. It is written as if Yahweh is right there on earth doing these things in a physical/literal sense. But He is NOT -- these things are spiritually literal.
The context for understanding Christ's return is as "THE DAY OF YAHWEH." Once we grasp this fact we then are forced to look to the O.T. comings of Yahweh to set the stage for how Jesus returned at AD 70. If we simply understand Yahweh's doings amongst men in the O.T. we understand Christ's doing amongst men in AD 66-70.
So, preterists will need to quickly begin responding to Ed's paper, section by section, to expose the obvious weakness of the speculations.
The evidence for Christ's return is the scriptures themselves and especially the book of Revelation which claims Christ's judgment was underway at the time St. John wrote. The book of Revelation IS the apostolic verification of the Lord's return. Furthermore, no one can debate the fact that AD 66-70 was the greatest Day of the Lord in history. For futurists to say that the "Day of the Lord" the apostles were talking is not the one that happened in their lifetimes at AD66-70 is absurd. Only those ignorant of the Bible can assert such nonsense.
I encourage folk to visit planetpreterist.com to engage the comments and articles over Ed Stevens' recent tract.
Originally posted by GW
Paul always keeps the living and the dead separate, especially when talking about Resurrection of "THE DEAD."
Originally posted by GW
Here's another common Jehovah coming to ponder the nature of:
Psalms 64:6-9
They plot injustice, saying, "We have made a perfect plan!" Surely man's mind and heart are cunning. BUT GOD WILL SHOOT AT THEM. THEY WILL BE SUDDENLY STRUCK DOWN WITH AN ARROW. Their own tongues shall ruin them. All WHO SEE THEM will shake their heads. ALL MANKIND SHALL BE AFRAID. They shall declare THE WORK OF GOD, And shall wisely ponder WHAT HE HAS DONE.
When did this happen? In David's time. Does history record God's bow and arrow attack? No. Why? Because no one can see Jehovah. But doesn't David say all would see it and be afraid and declare what God did? David indeed says this.
Get the point? This is common jewish language -- apocalyptic language. It refers to REAL events in jewish history which the Jews saw as Jehovah's doings. They had eyes to see into the invisible workings of the true God of heaven and earth. Oh, that 21st century Christians had such understanding and "vision" instead of religious carnalities.
Originally posted by BULWARK
there`s alot of pages hear so I hope I don`t ask questions that have already been asked but I do have alot of questions.
I love history so I can relate to a lot of preterist thinking although I dont believe that Christ has returned, for servile reasons.
First; 2 Thessalonians ch 2:
If Paul was saying just before the destruction of Jerusalem, there shall be a great falling away (I assume he ment of the roman empire) and then the man of sin would sit in the temple as though he was god, deceiving everyone.
Who was the man of sin that sat in the temple of god between the time Paul said this and the time Jerusalem fell and jesus returned??
Originally posted by BULWARK
First;
2 Thessalonians ch 2:
If Paul was saying just before the destruction of Jerusalem, there shall be a great falling away (I assume he ment of the roman empire) and then the man of sin would sit in the temple as though he was god, deceiving everyone.
Who was the man of sin that sat in the temple of god between the time Paul said this and the time Jerusalem fell and jesus returned??
Also;
Paul said that this deceiver (man of sin) would be removed at Jesus return.
Who was this man and when did Jesus remove him with the brightness of coming??
Also;
I hear someone calling jeruselum the apostate city of revelations but revelations tells me that this city will sit on seven hills and jeruselum does not sit on seven hills.
Originally posted by BULWARK
Hi guys,
I just want to say that I am only interested in the truth and will always submit to identified truth so hear is the chance to show me that preterisim is the truth because up to date I have heard half of the Preterists speak with good knowledge and understanding of what they believe but the other half talk like followers that dont know anything but what others have told them. Those types have made preterisim look like a cult to me but the educated ones have kept my ears open.
It's good to have an attitude of seeking after the truth, but as for someone needing to convince you of preterism, or any other "ism" that's a waste of time. You will only believe what you become convinced of -and that will only effectively happen as you study the scriptures for yourself.
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