Originally posted by Ozarkpreterist
I dont want to interrupt our train of thought here, but I cant help notice the continuing clash between the carnal and the spiritual here. So, if you will bear with me, I would like to make one more comment on it
61But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, Does this cause you to stumble? 62What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before? 63It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. 64But there are some of you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.
John 6:61 through John 6:64 (NASB)
The clash between the carnal mind and the spiritual is a theme we see throughout the book of John. Some notable examples are found in chapters three, six, and eight. I would encourage folks who are trying to understand preterist thought to study these chapters. They will give you insights as to why we are saying the things that we are saying.
Let us also note that spiritual words are always an affront to the carnal mind. John chapter six is a wonderful example of this. In the first half of the chapter Jesus deals with the peoples physical needs. He feeds them lunch in a most marvelous way multiplying a few loaves and fishes to feed a crowd of over 5000. They loved Him. In fact, they went to great lengths to find the Lord the next day. However, the second day was different. On this day Jesus dealt with the spiritual. He said things that must be spiritually appraised such as:
53So Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever. John 6:53 through John 6:58 (NASB)
This was a far cry from the free food He gave them the day before. The first day He gave them physical bread. The second day He offered Himself as true spiritual bread. How did they respond? They were offended. Again spiritual things are always an offence to the carnal mind. If we are going to preach Jesus as one who only deals in the material, we will be loved by all. Yet, if we preach Jesus as spiritual bread and the present reality of His kingdom, we will offend people. Moreover, many will see no profit in what we are saying. This my friends is the underlying reason preterists offend certain people.
Let us look at a few examples.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16 through 1 Thessalonians 4:17 (NASB)
The carnal mind says this cannot have already happened because I have not yet disappeared from my moving vehicle while my driverless car goes on to take out some well-deserving sinner.
The spiritual mind instead embraces the words of Paul.
5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together £with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus . Ephesians 2:5 through Ephesians 2:6 (NASB)
The preterist understands that these words, though finished at the cross, were consummated at the Parousia. We do not need a present day rapture. We are already with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus. This is a spiritual reality not a physical one. We are in His presence and His presence is in us. The separation between heaven and earth has been removed in Christ.
2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. Revelation 21:2 (NASB)
The carnal mind says that this cannot have already happened, because I dont see a great cubic city floating in the air above the earth.
The spiritual mind recognizes the new Jerusalem is the new creation, and it is very present on the earth.
The carnal mind says Jesus cannot have returned because I dont see Him siting on a literal throne in the literal nation of Israel . The spiritual mind recognizes that He is indeed here. He is enthroned in the midst of spiritual Israel which is the church. All this was inaugurated at the Parousia right on time just as Jesus and the apostles said it would be. No tricks or gimmicks are necessary to see this, just a spiritual mind.
ZoneChaos and others, Just open your heart and ask the Lord to show you His kingdom. He will, but you will not be able to see it with your eyes.
5Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Do not be amazed that I said to you, You must be born again. 8The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.
John 3:5 through John 3:8 (NASB)
Well said Ozarkpreterist. While I do agree with each and every thing you have said here. We must not ever forget another truth that Jesus said. Jesus speaking to the people of his day had this to says: "making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which you have delivered and many such like things do you. (Mark 7:13)
The traditions of men had the power to make the word of God of none effect in Jesus' day and it still has the power to do that today. Among the many things I am thankful for is the God is opening my poor bling eyes to the ancient truths of Scripture. Our preterist (accomplished salvation) views gains new adherents daily.
Thank you Lord for your patience and mercy in our behalf.
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