Possible Compromise On Infrastructure

[mark46]

1) $1T or so of new spending, almost all spending being for physical infrastructure. One version is being proposed in the House.

2) the only possible tax change would be a 15% minimum corporate tax, the tax that the EU countries are getting their countries to pass.

That's it.

This would be done through reconciliation and get 1-8 Republicans votes. It MIGHT get the 10 without the tax increase, but that is doubtful. The OPEN question is whether Manchin can be convinced to accept the 15% minimum corporate tax.

 

[Fantine]

Republicans want to tax the poor (gas tax) and reappropriate COVID funds.

It won't fly.

 

[mark46]

Republicans want to tax the poor (gas tax) and reappropriate COVID funds.

It won't fly.

OK, so no infrastructure bill is better than getting everything the progressives want.

Democratic, GOP House Members Pitch New Infrastructure Plan - Bloomberg

I would nothing has been agreed with regard to funding, although Manchin is unlikely to vote for tax increase other the EU proposal of a 15% minimum tax.

In the end, I don't think that 10 Republican senators will vote for this bill, but it could be passed through reconciliation.

 

[Fantine]

So give away the farm for that worthless holdout? He is enjoying his position as obstructionist far too much.

Manchin previously proposed raising the top rate for corporations to 25%, restoring part of the Trump cuts. If he is a Democrat he is not going to support a middle class gas tax increase instead--if we go to reconciliation.

 

[mark46]

So give away the farm for that worthless holdout? He is enjoying his position as obstructionist far too much.

Manchin previously proposed raising the top rate for corporations to 25%, restoring part of the Trump cuts. If he is a Democrat he is not going to support a middle class gas tax increase instead--if we go to reconciliation.

Ok, so stick to Manchin. Force him to make a choice. If he chooses not to raise taxes, then there will be no infrastructure bill.

You speak of "give a way" as if there is some magic bill that can be passed.

And, just BTW, Manchin is one of 5 or 6 moderate Democrats. As in the case of the Republicans, the extremes of the party would prefer that they didn't exist.

Just as an aside, almost none of Biden's appointments would be approved without Manchin. And also, he is a loyal Democrat, just not loyal to progressive principles.

 

[mark46]

So give away the farm for that worthless holdout? He is enjoying his position as obstructionist far too much.
..

I guess that (as in the case of the $15 minimum wage), progressives just need a vote. And they will lose again. Is that truly what you want to see? That is definitely what will happen if a bill anything like the original bill comes to a vote. That is definitely what will happen if there is a general corporate tax rate increase. Progressives want to go to the elections as the party that increased taxes by rolling back Trump's tax law. Biden wants to pass whatever legislation that he can.

 

[Fantine]

Manchin previously suggested restoring part of the corporate tax that was cut. That is obviously the correct approach.

The income inequality that the Trump tax cuts exacerbated has historically led to the great depression and recessions.

And not adding a tax burden to the middle class is a key Democratic principle, especially for a poor state like WV.

 

[mark46]

Manchin previously suggested restoring part of the corporate tax that was cut. That is obviously the correct approach.

The income inequality that the Trump tax cuts exacerbated has historically led to the great depression and recessions.

And not adding a tax burden to the middle class is a key Democratic principle, especially for a poor state like WV.

OK. Progressives win. No infrastructure bill.

And if the progressives continue their attitudes, no voting rights bill will be passed.
===========
Progressive want to corner the 5 Democratic moderates and force votes. Go for it. And then, the only bills passed will be those proposed by bipartisan groups.

So far an anti-discrimination bill was signed. A bill opposing China's actions will be signed. A criminal justice bill may be signed. An anti-Russia bill may be signed. If the progressives allow, the John Lewis Voting Rights bill may be passed, but not if there are the many party line votes almost required by the progressives.
==========
THE BOTTOM LINE
The reality is that the progressives do NOT have the majority of the Senate. They MAY have the support of 45 votes. The vote on the minimum wage is indicative of future votes.

To pass anything through budget reconciliation, Biden need all the moderate votes. To pass anything without reconciliation, Biden needs 60 votes. There are NOT 10 Republicans who will oppose McConnell on a key votes. And there are not 50 Democrats who will support Biden on any of the progressive bills.

If progressives want to vote NO on $1T worth of infrastructure (the House compromise), then so be it. We will lose not only the House, but also the Senate. Apparently, the 2020 lesson hasn't been learned. Democrats LOSE House seats, seats held by moderates that the progressives had no use for.
The bottom line is that there is no progressive majority, and fighting for such a majority has lost lots of seats and will lose a lot more.

 

[Brihaha]

If America actually made billionaires and their corporations pay taxes, we could actually pay for things we citizens need. It is difficult to fathom why people still vote for politicians who are determined to increase the wealth gap in America and benefit the elites, with little regard for suffering Americans. I can understand why God regretted inhabiting earth with humans early in Genesis. It seems we are the wretched creatures who court selfishness and sin. We consistently vote against our own self-interests because educating ourselves before voting is much more difficult than voting for folks whose words sound good yet do not match their actions. Praise God for the promise of a new earth free from mortal sin. In God we CAN trust, not self-serving politicians.

 

[mark46]

If America actually made billionaires and their corporations pay taxes, we could actually pay for things we citizens need. It is difficult to fathom why people still vote for politicians who are determined to increase the wealth gap in America and benefit the elites, with little regard for suffering Americans. I can understand why God regretted inhabiting earth with humans early in Genesis. It seems we are the wretched creatures who court selfishness and sin. We consistently vote against our own self-interests because educating ourselves before voting is much more difficult than voting for folks whose words sound good yet do not match their actions. Praise God for the promise of a new earth free from mortal sin. In God we CAN trust, not self-serving politicians.

It is not the wealth gap that is the problem in the US. It is not the fact that there are too many rich people. In the US, folks support the idea of wanting to be rich. The issue is the lack of an adequate safety net guaranteed to all.

As far as taxes, the solution (and the EU is now proposing) is a minimum corporate tax so that corporations don't have their headquarters in very low tax countries.

 

[Kentonio]

It is not the wealth gap that is the problem in the US. It is not the fact that there are too many rich people. In the US, folks support the idea of wanting to be rich. The issue is the lack of an adequate safety net guaranteed to all.

That's some double-think right there. Taxing the rich fairly allows you to actually pay for that safety net. But no, apparently its more important that a millionaire gets to keep more of his/her six figure salary than it is that a poor kid gets to eat.

 

[Arcangl86]

1) $1T or so of new spending, almost all spending being for physical infrastructure. One version is being proposed in the House.

2) the only possible tax change would be a 15% minimum corporate tax, the tax that the EU countries are getting their countries to pass.

That's it.

This would be done through reconciliation and get 1-8 Republicans votes. It MIGHT get the 10 without the tax increase, but that is doubtful. The OPEN question is whether Manchin can be convinced to accept the 15% minimum corporate tax.

If it's going to be reliant on reconciliation anyway, why not go whole hog? Why compromise if Republics still won't support it? What advantage do the Democrats have in watering down their infrastructure bill, if it still won't survive a filibuster?

 

[Fantine]

OK. Progressives win. No infrastructure bill.

And if the progressives continue their attitudes, no voting rights bill will be passed.
===========
Progressive want to corner the 5 Democratic moderates and force votes.

My post was about the financing. If the bill is financed on the backs of the middle class, Republicans will never stop reminding voters that Democrats raised their taxes.

Not, "we gave Democrats no choice because OUR base is business and the 1%." Although that would be the truth.

$1 trillion is not enough, but if passed through reconciliation and a 25% corporate tax it would be a win-win for Democrats and a lose-lose for Republicans.

And Manchin was the one who proposed that compromise.

 

[mark46]

That's some double-think right there. Taxing the rich fairly allows you to actually pay for that safety net. But no, apparently its more important that a millionaire gets to keep more of his/her six figure salary than it is that a poor kid gets to eat.

A 75% tax on income over $400K is fine. It won't help much, but you'll feel better.

 

[mark46]

If it's going to be reliant on reconciliation anyway, why not go whole hog? Why compromise if Republics still won't support it? What advantage do the Democrats have in watering down their infrastructure bill, if it still won't survive a filibuster?

Go whole hog. Go through reconciliation on $2B for infrastructure. There will be about 47 votes, and then what? You feel better because you at least tried to get everything. IMO, it much more important to actually get something, even if it only 1/3 of what you wanted.

 

[mark46]

My post was about the financing. If the bill is financed on the backs of the middle class, Republicans will never stop reminding voters that Democrats raised their taxes.

Not, "we gave Democrats no choice because OUR base is business and the 1%." Although that would be the truth.

$1 trillion is not enough, but if passed through reconciliation and a 25% corporate tax it would be a win-win for Democrats and a lose-lose for Republicans.

And Manchin was the one who proposed that compromise.

fair enough

The House bi-partisan bill still doesn't have the financing portion. You can say that raising the gas tax every 30 years is a huge burden on the middle class, and will be a big campaign issue. However, "raising taxes" usually means income taxes.

But we'll see. My strong preference is a 15% corporate minimum tax. Without a minimum tax, the rate matters little for the Amazon's of the world. The great call for a feel good increase in the corporate tax rate will just give the Republicans a campaign issue. The largest corporation don't pay any tax at all.

55 Corporations Paid $0 in Federal Taxes on 2020 Profits – ITEP

 

[Fantine]

If it's going to be reliant on reconciliation anyway, why not go whole hog? Why compromise if Republics still won't support it? What advantage do the Democrats have in watering down their infrastructure bill, if it still won't survive a filibuster?

Or have a "real" filibuster. Let the opposing party work for its win. That is how the original filibuster bill was designed. At least 40 people on the floor and continual speeches. If they cease, a vote takes place.

I could listen to Ted Cruz read Dr. Seuss all night. He'd be right in character for the Grinch, or Maizy the Lazy Bird, or other Seuss villains.

If no compromise can be reached with Republicans, then the only people you need to compromise with are Manchin and Sinema. Don't even think about any previous concessions you might have made, because the people you made them for have already left. Go back to the $2.3 trillion and see how much you can get done with those two. In the meantime, run ads and give speeches in their states letting the Democrats and Independents know why the bill is being held up.

Manchin's wife has already gotten a $160K a year job out of his tantrums. No other deals for him until after he delivers. If he needs a bridge or two make sure it is included--to be delivered after he votes.

As for the financing, no one who would choose to raise the gas tax rather than lower the tax cut corporations have been getting is a Democrat. Plutocrat is more like it.

 

[mark46]

Or have a "real" filibuster. Let the opposing party work for its win. That is how the original filibuster bill was designed. At least 40 people on the floor and continual speeches. If they cease, a vote takes place.

I could listen to Ted Cruz read Dr. Seuss all night. He'd be right in character for the Grinch, or Maizy the Lazy Bird, or other Seuss villains.

If no compromise can be reached with Republicans, then the only people you need to compromise with are Manchin and Sinema. Don't even think about any previous concessions you might have made, because the people you made them for have already left. Go back to the $2.3 trillion and see how much you can get done with those two. In the meantime, run ads and give speeches in their states letting the Democrats and Independents know why the bill is being held up.

Manchin's wife has already gotten a $160K a year job out of his tantrums. No other deals for him until after he delivers. If he needs a bridge or two make sure it is included--to be delivered after he votes.

As for the financing, no one who would choose to raise the gas tax rather than lower the tax cut corporations have been getting is a Democrat. Plutocrat is more like it.

Thank you for making your positions clear. I've followed Biden for decades. Thankfully, Biden will not follow your advice. BTW, we have a new way to exclude folks from the Democratic Party. The new litmus test is that anyone who wants to use highway taxes to fund roads is a Republican. The increase would be the first in 18 years. It is clearly needed. I guess we now know who to blame for the lack of increases. Now that would make a fine campaign issue in purple states.

 

[mark46]

Or have a "real" filibuster. Let the opposing party work for its win. That is how the original filibuster bill was designed. At least 40 people on the floor and continual speeches. If they cease, a vote takes place.
.

I agree.

I also believe that McConnell would have no problem getting his folks to filibuster in a real filibuster.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

I agree.

I also believe that McConnell would have no problem getting his folks to filibuster in a real filibuster.

At least make him try and he may fail. Also, it gives video for attack ads against Republicans. Why is there gridlock in Washington? Rubio is reciting Shakespeare and here is Graham teaching us how to make Martha Stewart’s green bean casserole rather than working to get stuff accomplished for you, Mr. & Mrs. John Q Taxpayer.