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Let's talk about Joe Biden getting Viktor Shokin fired

Are we clear on the Shokin firig

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 35.7%
  • Yep

    Votes: 3 21.4%
  • Uh huh

    Votes: 1 7.1%
  • Si Senor

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Da Tovarisch

    Votes: 4 28.6%
  • I think we need to discuss this further.

    Votes: 1 7.1%

  • Total voters
    14
  • Poll closed .

Ana the Ist

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This isn't a transcript. You claimed there was a transcript of the call.

If there's a supposed transcript of the call, why is the author of this opinion piece asking rhetorical questions?
From the transcript of Archer's testimony:

Q And the same minority report noted that State Department officials interviewed in this investigation explained that Shokin did not pursue corruption investigations against Burisma's owner, effectively shielding the owner from prosecution, and that removing Shokin made an investigation into Burisma more, not less, likely. It sounds like that's in accordance with --
A Uh-huh.
Q -- your general understanding of what was going on at the time.
A But quickly after, where all of his assets were seized, Zlochevsky, and he had to leave Ukraine.
Q But so do you have any basis to believe that Vice President Biden's call for Shokin's removal was driven by anything other than the U.S. Government's anticorruption policy in Ukraine?
A Yeah, I have no -- I have no other -- I have no proof or thought that that -- that he fired him for that reason.
Q You have no reason to believe otherwise.
A I have no reason to believe.

I can keep debunking this all day.
>> It's true that Joe Biden leveraged $1 billion in aid to persuade Ukraine to oust its top prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, in March 2016. But it wasn't because Shokin was investigating Burisma. It was because Shokin wasn't pursuing corruption among the country's politicians.

Oh....it's corrupt politicians....oh OK.

Who do they squeeze money from?



Mike Carpenter, who served as a foreign policy adviser to the then-vice president, told USA TODAY that Shokin "never went after any corrupt individuals at all" and "never prosecuted any high-profile cases of corruption." <<

And?
 
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Pommer

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There were threads because I remember them writing in them on this topic.

Found:





No, that is flat out not true. That is just a desperate right wing line.​
Fact - Joe Biden was representing the Obama administration view and it was a bipartisan view at the time. It also was the view of the IMF and EU and more. Joe threaten to withhold money to Ukraine if they did not fire a prosecutor who was slow-walking investigations, and was not really investigating Burisma. Hunter was hired to do a job.​
But I understand some are stuck in the right wing line for all this.​
Here is an article for those who are not:​
Within months, though, the State Department began suspecting that the office of Mr. Poroshenko’s first prosecutor general was accepting bribes to protect Mykola Zlochevsky, the oligarch owner of Burisma Holdings, the gas company where Hunter Biden was a board member. In a February 2015 meeting in Kiev with a deputy prosecutor, a State Department official named George P. Kent demanded to know “who took the bribe and how much was it?”​
The prosecutor general was fired soon after. But it wasn’t long before the new prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, was drawing allegations of corruption, including from State Department officials who suspected he was shaking down targets and intentionally slow-walking investigations to protect allies.​
Mr. Giuliani has claimed, without evidence, that Mr. Biden’s push to oust Mr. Shokin was an attempt to block scrutiny of his son’s actions. In fact, Mr. Biden was just one of many officials calling for Mr. Shokin to go. Good-government activists were protesting his actions in the streets, as were eurozone power players like Christine Lagarde, then the managing director of the International Monetary Fund, along with Ms. Nuland and Senate Republicans.
“The position regarding getting rid of Shokin was not Vice President Biden’s position; it was the position of the U.S. government, as well as the European Union and international financial institutions,” said Amos J. Hochstein, former coordinator for international energy affairs at the State Department and one of the few administration officials who directly confronted Mr. Biden at the time about his son.......​
By late 2015, American officials had grown so frustrated with Mr. Poroshenko’s sluggish response on all fronts that Mr. Biden was dispatched to make the case publicly for reforms to the Ukrainian Parliament.​
That December, in a speech that he later described as one of the most important he had ever delivered, the vice president told legislators they had “to remove all conflicts between their business interest and their government responsibilities.” He also singled out the natural gas industry, saying, “The energy sector needs to be competitive, ruled by market principles — not sweetheart deals.”....​
Mr. Shokin was eventually fired, but only months later, after I.M.F. officials threatened to withdraw funding.....​
Bob Bauer, former Obama White House counsel and Biden adviser, said that even pressuring Hunter Biden to quit the board would have constituted a breach of that firewall, and suggested that was one of the reasons the vice president chose not to do it. “The independent activities of an adult child simply don’t create a ‘conflict of interest’ for the parent who is a public official,” he said. “And as a matter of sound ethical practice, it is important for officials in this position to maintain that distance: to be able to show that, in doing their jobs, they could not have been affected by discussions or involvement with their adult children relating to private business matters. Their posture has to be, ‘Whatever you decide to do, I am going to do what I have to do.’”​
Mr. Biden has said he first learned of his son’s activities in Ukraine when the story broke in 2014. He told his son, “I hope you know what you are doing,” according to Hunter Biden’s account of their discussion in The New Yorker earlier this year.​
It is a good article. It has a firewall but you can get a certain number of free articles a month.​
Very nice work…but I was talking about February March April 2016. Nary a word.
 
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FreeinChrist

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Very nice work…but I was talking about February March April 2016. Nary a word.
No, nothing then. It had bipartisan support until Trump got caught saying what he did in a call with Zelensky. Then the story that Joe was trying to save Hunter was created by Trump.
 
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FreeinChrist

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I can debunk of this all day.

>> President Donald Trump’s personal lawyer is raising the specter that Joe Biden intervened in Ukrainian politics to help his son’s business. But if that was Biden’s aim, he was more than a year late, based on a timeline laid out by a former Ukrainian official and in Ukrainian documents.

>> But what has received less attention is that at the time Biden made his ultimatum, the probe into the company -- Burisma Holdings, owned by Mykola Zlochevsky -- had been long dormant, according to the former official, Vitaliy Kasko. “There was no pressure from anyone from the U.S. to close cases against Zlochevsky,” Kasko said in an interview last week. “It was shelved by Ukrainian prosecutors in 2014 and through 2015.”

>> The case against Zlochevsky and his Burisma Holdings was assigned to Shokin, then a deputy prosecutor. But Shokin and others weren’t pursuing it, according to the internal reports from the Ukrainian prosecutor’s office reviewed by Bloomberg.

>> Shokin became prosecutor general in February 2015. Over the next year, the U.S. and the International Monetary Fund criticized officials for not doing enough to fight corruption in Ukraine. Shokin took no action to pursue cases against Zlochevsky throughout 2015, said Kasko, who was Shokin’s deputy overseeing international cooperation and helping in asset-recovery investigations. Kasko said he had urged Shokin to pursue the investigations.


No such transcript exists. Stop with the mendacity and why are you putting Burisma in scare quotes?
QFT
 
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No, nothing then. It had bipartisan support until Trump got caught saying what he did in a call with Zelensky. Then the story that Joe was trying to save Hunter was created by Trump.
And the beginnings of “normal functioning government=outrageous corruption!!1!”
 
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Republican Case Against Biden Beautifully Goes Up in Flames on Fox News

Former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko completely dismissed one of Republicans’ main “Biden corruption” arguments.​

Fox News host Brian Kilmeade played Poroshenko a clip of Shokin saying Biden wanted him fired because he had been investigating the oil company Burisma Holdings while Hunter Biden served on the board.

“First of all, this is [a] completely crazy person,” Poroshenko replied without hesitation, referring to Shokin. “This is something wrong with him. Second, there is not one single word of truth.”

Poroshenko added that Shokin was fired because “he played very dirty games.”
 
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Ana the Ist

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Poroshenko added that Shokin was fired because “he played very dirty games.”

According to Biden, Poroshenko didn't want to fire Shokin. In fact, Biden had to threaten to withhold 1 billion dollars to get Shokin fired.

Obviously, Poroshenko will say anything Democrats want him to now, because he wants the billions of dollars and military weapons to keep flowing into the Ukraine.

This is a pathetic attempt to cover for Biden and it makes absolutely no sense at all....it's contradicted by Biden's own words. I can't imagine anyone naive enough to still believe this.
 
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Republican Case Against Biden Beautifully Goes Up in Flames on Fox News

Former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko completely dismissed one of Republicans’ main “Biden corruption” arguments.​

Fox News host Brian Kilmeade played Poroshenko a clip of Shokin saying Biden wanted him fired because he had been investigating the oil company Burisma Holdings while Hunter Biden served on the board.

“First of all, this is [a] completely crazy person,” Poroshenko replied without hesitation, referring to Shokin. “This is something wrong with him. Second, there is not one single word of truth.”

Poroshenko added that Shokin was fired because “he played very dirty games.”
Cue the “‘They’ got to Poroshenko, now, too!” Spin®️
 
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I saw the interview in which the question about Shokin was for about the last 45 seconds of a sidebar to several minutes concerning the Ukraine war. Kilmeade looked like he was fishing but hardly going in for the smoking gun and had no meltdown. Plus they interviewed Shokin a few weeks back & it will have to be determined who is more reliable: Shokin or Poroshenko?
 
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essentialsaltes

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it will have to be determined who is more reliable: Shokin or Poroshenko?
Neither is all that reliable. Fortunately, we can also point to the concerted effort of our European allies to remove Shokin because he was a barrier to progress on corruption.
 
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There are clearly concerns re Poroshenko and even of those who accuse him of wrongdoing:



Criminal caseEdit

On 20 December 2021, Poroshenko was accused of state treason, aiding terrorist organizations and financing terrorism due to allegedly organizing the purchase of coal from separatist-controlled areas of Ukraine together with pro-Russian politician Viktor Medvedchuk.[170] If convicted, he faces up to 15 years in prison.[171] Poroshenko denied the allegations, calling them "fabricated, politically motivated, and black PR directed against [Zelenskyy's] political opponents".[170

 
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Ana the Ist

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Fortunately, we can also point to the concerted effort of our European allies to remove Shokin because he was a barrier to progress on corruption.

As if that matters...

Let's pretend for a moment that our "European allies" wanted Shokin gone....does that mean Biden didn't take a bribe? Of course not.

In fact, since Burisma is a natural gas company that serves....wait for it....our European allies, perhaps they wanted Shokin gone because he was investigating Burisma.

What we do know for certain, because Biden said these things himself, is that....

1. Poroshenko and other Ukrainian officials didn't want Shokin removed.

2. Biden threatened to withhold 1 billion dollars in aid unless they fired Shokin.

3. Ukrainian officials initially resisted this request...claiming Biden didn't have the authority to make such decisions.

4. Biden repeated the threat to withhold aid, and the Ukrainians reluctantly agreed.

Now, Biden could be lying then....or he could be lying now. He had no motive to lie about this incident in the past...and he has a lot of reasons to lie now.

Cue the “‘They’ got to Poroshenko, now, too!” Spin®️

I understand that for some reason, folks on the left really struggle with identifying "conspiracy theories" and legitimate "civil rights movements". I'm sure this is partly due to the breakdown of reliable, trustworthy journalism on the left along with the threat of being "canceled" or labeled even a sympathizer to the right...create an environment where disagreement with the left can be damaging to one's career or worse, result in the loss of one's peer group.

If you need help identifying these things @Pommer ,I'm more than willing to explain them. Just ask.
 
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Say it aint so

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As if that matters...

Let's pretend for a moment that our "European allies" wanted Shokin gone....does that mean Biden didn't take a bribe? Of course not.

In fact, since Burisma is a natural gas company that serves....wait for it....our European allies, perhaps they wanted Shokin gone because he was investigating Burisma.

What we do know for certain, because Biden said these things himself, is that....

1. Poroshenko and other Ukrainian officials didn't want Shokin removed.

2. Biden threatened to withhold 1 billion dollars in aid unless they fired Shokin.

3. Ukrainian officials initially resisted this request...claiming Biden didn't have the authority to make such decisions.

4. Biden repeated the threat to withhold aid, and the Ukrainians reluctantly agreed.

Now, Biden could be lying then....9r he could be lying now. He had no motive to lie about this incident in the past...and he has a lot of reasons to lie now.



I understand that for some reason, folks on the left really struggle with identifying "conspiracy theories" and legitimate "civil rights movements". I'm sure this is partly due to the breakdown of reliable, trustworthy journalism on the left along with the threat of being "canceled" or labeled even a sympathizer to the right...create an environment where disagreement with the left can be damaging to one's career or worse, result in the loss of one's peer group.

If you need help identifying these things @Pommer ,I'm more than willing to explain them. Just ask.
The EU wanted him removed.
The IMF wanted him removed.
Ukrainian anti-corruption orgs wanted him removed.
GOP Senators Ron Johnson, Rob Portman, and Mark Kirk wanted him removed.
The US State Department wanted him removed.
If Joe Biden was being bribed, I guess that didn't work out to well for those doing the bribing.
But seeing you or no one else has evidence of bribery, then it's just hot air.
 

Ana the Ist

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The EU wanted him removed.

I'm sure you have proof of that outside of Democratic Party propaganda. Something from the EU itself. I'm also sure you're aware that Burisma supplied gas to the EU, so they had motives unrelated to Shokin's ability to fight corruption.

The IMF wanted him removed.

We are the IMF. I don't know what you think the IMF is or does but the simplest explanation is they are the international loan sharks that keep poorer nations indebted to the US.


Ukrainian anti-corruption orgs wanted him removed.

No they didn't. They may claim so now, but they didn't at the time according to Biden.

GOP Senators Ron Johnson, Rob Portman, and Mark Kirk wanted him removed.
The US State Department wanted him removed.

No they didn't.


John Kerry, head of the State Department at the time described Shokin as "impressive" and inter-agency policy regarding Shokin claims he had made "significant reforms". Skip to 4 minutes and 15 seconds to get to the relevant part.

Now, that's straight from the horse's mouth (as head of the State Department, Kerry would be in charge of such foreign affairs).

I'm well aware that Democratic Party propaganda outlets have been claiming that it was State Department policy at the time....so what evidence do they have to prove this?

If Joe Biden was being bribed, I guess that didn't work out to well for those doing the bribing.

Why not?


But seeing you or no one else has evidence of bribery, then it's just hot air.

Well, perhaps you missed today's story about the wire transfers of money to Hunter Biden addressed to Joe Biden's house lol. I'm sure there's going to be more of those popping up as the weeks roll by. Do read what Hunter's lawyers claim the wire transfers were for....they're claiming (I'm not joking) that these were "private loans" from private citizens (not banks or financial institutions) and the reason why they were sent to Joe Biden's house was that happened to be the address on Hunter's driver's license at the time lol.

I mean seriously, who would be stupid enough to believe that???
 
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Say it aint so

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I'm sure you have proof of that outside of Democratic Party propaganda. Something from the EU itself. I'm also sure you're aware that Burisma supplied gas to the EU, so they had motives unrelated to Shokin's ability to fight corruption.



We are the IMF. I don't know what you think the IMF is or does but the simplest explanation is they are the international loan sharks that keep poorer nations indebted to the US.




No they didn't. They may claim so now, but they didn't at the time according to Biden.



No they didn't.


John Kerry, head of the State Department at the time described Shokin as "impressive" and inter-agency policy regarding Shokin claims he had made "significant reforms". Skip to 4 minutes and 15 seconds to get to the relevant part.

Now, that's straight from the horse's mouth (as head of the State Department, Kerry would be in charge of such foreign affairs).

I'm well aware that Democratic Party propaganda outlets have been claiming that it was State Department policy at the time....so what evidence do they have to prove this?



Why not?




Well, perhaps you missed today's story about the wire transfers of money to Hunter Biden addressed to Joe Biden's house lol. I'm sure there's going to be more of those popping up as the weeks roll by. Do read what Hunter's lawyers claim the wire transfers were for....they're claiming (I'm not joking) that these were "private loans" from private citizens (not banks or financial institutions) and the reason why they were sent to Joe Biden's house was that happened to be the address on Hunter's driver's license at the time lol.

I mean seriously, who would be stupid enough to believe that???

EU hails sacking of Ukraine’s prosecutor Viktor Shokin


The European Union has welcomed the dismissal of Ukraine's scandal-ridden prosecutor general and called for a crackdown on corruption, even as the country's political crisis deepened over efforts to form a new ruling coalition and appoint a new prime minister.
Ukraine's parliament voted overwhelmingly to fire Viktor Shokin, ridding the beleaguered prosecutor's office of a figure who is accused of blocking major cases against allies and influential figures and stymying moves to root out graft.
"This decision creates an opportunity to make a fresh start in the prosecutor general's office. I hope that the new prosecutor general will ensure that [his] office . . . becomes independent from political influence and pressure and enjoys public trust," said Jan Tombinski, the EU's envoy to Ukraine.

Envoys pushed to oust Ukraine prosecutor before Biden


EU diplomats working on Ukraine at the time have, however, told the FT that they were looking for ways to persuade Kiev to remove Mr Shokin well before Mr Biden entered the picture. The push for Mr Shokin’s removal was part of an international effort to bolster Ukraine’s institutions following Russia’s annexation of Crimea and the armed conflict in the eastern part of the country. “All of us were really pushing [former Ukrainian president Petro] Poroshenko that he needs to do something, because the prosecutor was not following any of the corruption issues. He was really bad news,” said an EU diplomat involved in the discussions. “It was Biden who finally came in [and triggered it]. Biden was the most vocal, as the US usually is. But we were all literally complaining about the prosecutor.”
Ukrainian Protesters Demand Dismissal Of Prosecutor-General
The protest on March 28 followed a Kiev court ruling that authorized Shokin's office to investigate a watchdog organization called the Anticorruption Action Center, over claims that the center embezzled $2.2 million in aid.
The center has been a vocal critic of Shokin, who had formally resigned in February but then abruptly resumed his duties earlier this month.
His resignation needs parliamentary approval, but it's unclear whether enough lawmakers in the Ukrainian parliament will approve the resignation when they vote on the issue on March 29.
Shokin’s deputy, Vitaliy Kasko, resigned last month, accusing Shokin and his office of being a "hotbed of corruption."Shokin's office dismissed the claim as a publicity stunt.
U.S. and European diplomats have publicly called for Shokin's dismissal, and a top U.S. State Department official whose area of responsibility includes Ukraine earlier this month publicly called for him to go.
GOP Sens. Rob Portman (R-OH), Ron Johnson (R-WI), and Mark Kirk (R-IL)
CNN uncovered a letter dated February 12, 2016, in which Sens. Rob Portman (R-OH), Ron Johnson (R-WI), and Mark Kirk (R-IL), along with several Democratic senators, called for Ukraine’s then-president to “press ahead with urgent reforms to the Prosecutor General’s office and judiciary.” Four days later, Shokin resigned (although he didn’t officially leave until the following month when Ukraine’s Parliament voted him out).
STATE DEPARTMENT MEMO CALLING FOR SHOKIN'S REMOVAL

1. (SBU) Unity and Reforms: With local elections in the rear-view mirror
and an economy that while still in difficulty, seems to have moved back
from the precipice, the time is ripe for President Poroshenko to
reanimate his reform agenda. You should recommend that he give a
state of the nation speech to the Rada in which he reenergizes that
effort and rolls out new proposed reforms. There is wide agreement that
anti-corruption must be at the top of this list, and that reforms must
include an overhaul of the Prosecutor General’s Office including removal
of Prosecutor General Shokin, who is widely regarded as an obstacle to
fighting corruption, if not a source of the problem. Reform priorities
should also include the judiciary and standing up the new national
investigative bureau (akin to the FBI). You will want to press
Poroshenko to eschew radical plans and agree with Yatsenyuk on a
2016 budget and tax plan that are consistent with the IMF-
recpommended program. Poroshenko has prioritized privatization, and
you should encourage the government to set up a mega-holding
company for 10-20 state-owned enterprises, which will help cut off
traditional sources of corruption.
 
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Well, perhaps you missed today's story about the wire transfers of money to Hunter Biden addressed to Joe Biden's house lol. I'm sure there's going to be more of those popping up as the weeks roll by. Do read what Hunter's lawyers claim the wire transfers were for....they're claiming (I'm not joking) that these were "private loans" from private citizens (not banks or financial institutions) and the reason why they were sent to Joe Biden's house was that happened to be the address on Hunter's driver's license at the time lol.

I mean seriously, who would be stupid enough to believe that???
Correct me if I am wrong, but bank transfers are just that, bank to bank transfers. The transfers will go to a specifically named person with a specific bank account to transfer. The address used for the person is absolutely meaningless. To my knowledge, a use of Joe's address does not mean that Joe would know money was sent to a bank account, and it certainly would mean Joe received money from China. Comer knows whose name and whose account it was sent to, why doesn't he just mention that?
 
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Ana the Ist

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EU hails sacking of Ukraine’s prosecutor Viktor Shokin


The European Union has welcomed the dismissal of Ukraine's scandal-ridden prosecutor general and called for a crackdown on corruption, even as the country's political crisis deepened over efforts to form a new ruling coalition and appoint a new prime minister.
Ukraine's parliament voted overwhelmingly to fire Viktor Shokin, ridding the beleaguered prosecutor's office of a figure who is accused of blocking major cases against allies and influential figures and stymying moves to root out graft.
"This decision creates an opportunity to make a fresh start in the prosecutor general's office. I hope that the new prosecutor general will ensure that [his] office . . . becomes independent from political influence and pressure and enjoys public trust," said Jan Tombinski, the EU's envoy to Ukraine.

Doesn't mention why he was sacked.


Envoys pushed to oust Ukraine prosecutor before Biden


EU diplomats working on Ukraine at the time have, however, told the FT that they were looking for ways to persuade Kiev to remove Mr Shokin well before Mr Biden entered the picture. The push for Mr Shokin’s removal was part of an international effort to bolster Ukraine’s institutions following Russia’s annexation of Crimea and the armed conflict in the eastern part of the country. “All of us were really pushing [former Ukrainian president Petro] Poroshenko that he needs to do something, because the prosecutor was not following any of the corruption issues. He was really bad news,” said an EU diplomat involved in the discussions. “It was Biden who finally came in [and triggered it]. Biden was the most vocal, as the US usually is. But we were all literally complaining about the prosecutor.”

I don't have a subscription to the financial times.


Ukrainian Protesters Demand Dismissal Of Prosecutor-General
The protest on March 28 followed a Kiev court ruling that authorized Shokin's office to investigate a watchdog organization called the Anticorruption Action Center, over claims that the center embezzled $2.2 million in aid.

So people were protesting that he was investigating....corruption.


The center has been a vocal critic of Shokin, who had formally resigned in February but then abruptly resumed his duties earlier this month.
His resignation needs parliamentary approval, but it's unclear whether enough lawmakers in the Ukrainian parliament will approve the resignation when they vote on the issue on March 29.
Shokin’s deputy, Vitaliy Kasko, resigned last month, accusing Shokin and his office of being a "hotbed of corruption."Shokin's office dismissed the claim as a publicity stunt.
U.S. and European diplomats have publicly called for Shokin's dismissal, and a top U.S. State Department official whose area of responsibility includes Ukraine earlier this month publicly called for him to go.
GOP Sens. Rob Portman (R-OH), Ron Johnson (R-WI), and Mark Kirk (R-IL)
CNN uncovered a letter dated February 12, 2016, in which Sens. Rob Portman (R-OH), Ron Johnson (R-WI), and Mark Kirk (R-IL), along with several Democratic senators, called for Ukraine’s then-president to “press ahead with urgent reforms to the Prosecutor General’s office and judiciary.” Four days later, Shokin resigned (although he didn’t officially leave until the following month when Ukraine’s Parliament voted him out).

Wait....they took this stance literally 4 days before he was forced to resign???



STATE DEPARTMENT MEMO CALLING FOR SHOKIN'S REMOVAL

1. (SBU) Unity and Reforms: With local elections in the rear-view mirror
and an economy that while still in difficulty, seems to have moved back
from the precipice, the time is ripe for President Poroshenko to
reanimate his reform agenda. You should recommend that he give a
state of the nation speech to the Rada in which he reenergizes that
effort and rolls out new proposed reforms. There is wide agreement that
anti-corruption must be at the top of this list, and that reforms must
include an overhaul of the Prosecutor General’s Office including removal
of Prosecutor General Shokin, who is widely regarded as an obstacle to
fighting corruption, if not a source of the problem. Reform priorities
should also include the judiciary and standing up the new national
investigative bureau (akin to the FBI). You will want to press
Poroshenko to eschew radical plans and agree with Yatsenyuk on a
2016 budget and tax plan that are consistent with the IMF-
recpommended program. Poroshenko has prioritized privatization, and
you should encourage the government to set up a mega-holding
company for 10-20 state-owned enterprises, which will help cut off
traditional sources of corruption.


Several officials in the weeks leading up to Biden’s December 2015 visit to Kyiv had said they were “impressed” with the “progress” Shokin’s office had made in the preceding months.

One of the documents setting forth conditions for the loans, drafted one month before the vice president’s trip, listed no issues with granting the funds and said nothing about firing the prosecutor
.


For instance, Burisma’s American legal representatives met with Ukrainian officials just days after Biden forced the firing of the country’s chief prosecutor and offered “an apology for dissemination of false information by U.S. representatives and public figures” about the Ukrainian prosecutors, according to the Ukrainian government’s official memo of the meeting. The effort to secure that meeting began the same day the prosecutor’s firing was announced.
In addition, Burisma’s American team offered to introduce Ukrainian prosecutors to Obama administration officials to make amends, according to that memo and the American legal team’s internal emails.


So let's put this on a timeline....



Just weeks before then-Vice President Joe Biden took the opposite action in late 2015, a task force of State, Treasury, and Justice Department officials declared that Ukraine had made adequate progress on anti-corruption reforms and deserved a new $1 billion U.S. loan guarantee, according to government memos that conflict with the narrative Democrats have sustained since the 2019 impeachment scandal.
Ukraine has made sufficient progress on its reform agenda to justify a third guarantee,” said an Oct. 1, 2015, memo summarizing the recommendation of the Interagency Policy Committee (IPC), a task force created to advise the Obama White House on whether Ukraine was cleaning up its endemic corruption and deserved more Western foreign aid.



Well well well.....

It's almost as if the entire Obama administration was impressed with Shokin....then when he ramped up his investigation into Burisma, where Biden and family are getting kickbacks....suddenly the administration does a 180.

Since you're the one with the cognitive dissonance, how do you explain that? One month they're happy with Shokin’s progress on corruption....the next month they want him fired.

What do you think happened? Why would Burisma’s American legal team apologize for slandering the Ukrainian prosecutors right after they were fired from pressure by Biden?

You don't need to be Columbo to figure this out.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Correct me if I am wrong, but bank transfers are just that, bank to bank transfers.


Rep. James Comer said the alleged bank wires to the president's son included more than $250,000 in payments from three individuals in the summer of 2019. Comer asserted the Delaware address on the wire transfers compounded questions about what Joe Biden may have known about his son's overseas business dealings. And he said any past Biden financial entanglements in China heightened national security concerns.



So 3 private individuals were sending money to Joe's address in Hunter's name...while he was running for president.

And you are incorrect....wire transfers require both a name and address to ensure they are going to the correct person. That's what makes this interesting, because it appears Hunter didn't know his own address. He wasn't living with his father in 2019, was he?

To my knowledge, a use of Joe's address does not mean that Joe would know money was sent to a bank account, and it certainly would mean Joe received money from China. Comer knows whose name and whose account it was sent to, why doesn't he just mention that?

What's more interesting is the fact that its clear the lawyers and Democrat Party officials were blindsided by this and haven't gotten their lies straight. You have Biden's lawyers saying...

In his statement, Lowell said the bank transfers resulted from loans Hunter Biden received from a private individual,

You know....lol loans. Not the kind of loan a bank gives you....but the kind of loan a shady Chinese businessman gives you lol.





So without a doubt, Joe lied about doing business with China...and yes, it matters that his residence was listed as the recipient address because Hunter's memoir puts him in California at the time. It's not even clear what this money was for....because one article characterizes it as payment for work, another as a private loan.

I'm well aware that you don't actually care about the evidence and even if we had photos of 250k$ going from Hunter's hands to Joe's....you'd accept the story that it was a Christmas gift.

I just find it funny thinking that we were just on a different thread...and I was pointing out to you that the IRS whistleblowers handed over a bunch of evidence....and it's going to be coming out....and you were in full blown denial. Now what I said would happen is literally happening and you're still in denial.
 
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Say it aint so

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Doesn't mention why he was sacked.




I don't have a subscription to the financial times.




So people were protesting that he was investigating....corruption.




Wait....they took this stance literally 4 days before he was forced to resign???






Several officials in the weeks leading up to Biden’s December 2015 visit to Kyiv had said they were “impressed” with the “progress” Shokin’s office had made in the preceding months.

One of the documents setting forth conditions for the loans, drafted one month before the vice president’s trip, listed no issues with granting the funds and said nothing about firing the prosecutor
.


For instance, Burisma’s American legal representatives met with Ukrainian officials just days after Biden forced the firing of the country’s chief prosecutor and offered “an apology for dissemination of false information by U.S. representatives and public figures” about the Ukrainian prosecutors, according to the Ukrainian government’s official memo of the meeting. The effort to secure that meeting began the same day the prosecutor’s firing was announced.
In addition, Burisma’s American team offered to introduce Ukrainian prosecutors to Obama administration officials to make amends, according to that memo and the American legal team’s internal emails.


So let's put this on a timeline....



Just weeks before then-Vice President Joe Biden took the opposite action in late 2015, a task force of State, Treasury, and Justice Department officials declared that Ukraine had made adequate progress on anti-corruption reforms and deserved a new $1 billion U.S. loan guarantee, according to government memos that conflict with the narrative Democrats have sustained since the 2019 impeachment scandal.
Ukraine has made sufficient progress on its reform agenda to justify a third guarantee,” said an Oct. 1, 2015, memo summarizing the recommendation of the Interagency Policy Committee (IPC), a task force created to advise the Obama White House on whether Ukraine was cleaning up its endemic corruption and deserved more Western foreign aid.



Well well well.....

It's almost as if the entire Obama administration was impressed with Shokin....then when he ramped up his investigation into Burisma, where Biden and family are getting kickbacks....suddenly the administration does a 180.

Since you're the one with the cognitive dissonance, how do you explain that? One month they're happy with Shokin’s progress on corruption....the next month they want him fired.

What do you think happened? Why would Burisma’s American legal team apologize for slandering the Ukrainian prosecutors right after they were fired from pressure by Biden?

You don't need to be Columbo to figure this out.
LOL, John Solomon. One more time, they don't mention who the money was sent to or to whose account. That's because it was sent to Hunter, not Joe, regardless of address.
 
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Say it aint so

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Rep. James Comer said the alleged bank wires to the president's son included more than $250,000 in payments from three individuals in the summer of 2019. Comer asserted the Delaware address on the wire transfers compounded questions about what Joe Biden may have known about his son's overseas business dealings. And he said any past Biden financial entanglements in China heightened national security concerns.



So 3 private individuals were sending money to Joe's address in Hunter's name...while he was running for president.

And you are incorrect....wire transfers require both a name and address to ensure they are going to the correct person. That's what makes this interesting, because it appears Hunter didn't know his own address. He wasn't living with his father in 2019, was he?



What's more interesting is the fact that its clear the lawyers and Democrat Party officials were blindsided by this and haven't gotten their lies straight. You have Biden's lawyers saying...

In his statement, Lowell said the bank transfers resulted from loans Hunter Biden received from a private individual,

You know....lol loans. Not the kind of loan a bank gives you....but the kind of loan a shady Chinese businessman gives you lol.





So without a doubt, Joe lied about doing business with China...and yes, it matters that his residence was listed as the recipient address because Hunter's memoir puts him in California at the time. It's not even clear what this money was for....because one article characterizes it as payment for work, another as a private loan.

I'm well aware that you don't actually care about the evidence and even if we had photos of 250k$ going from Hunter's hands to Joe's....you'd accept the story that it was a Christmas gift.

I just find it funny thinking that we were just on a different thread...and I wad pointing out to you that the IRS whistleblowers handed over a bunch of evidence....and it's going to be coming out....and you were in full blown denial. Now what I said would happen is literally happening and you're still in denial.
Wire transfers are bank account to bank account transfers regardless of the home address of said account.
A wire transfer is an electronic transfer of funds via a network that is administered by banks and transfer service agencies around the world. Wire transfers involve a sending and receiving institution and require information from the party initiating the transfer, such as the receiver's name and account number.
Wire transfers don't actually involve the physical exchange of cash but are settled electronically. They can be sent between banks, or through a non-bank service such as Western Union.
If it is to be believed that Hunter was staying at his Dad's and the money was sent during this time period, then yes it would be the same address of where he was staying.
 
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