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OSAS: Can salvation be lost?
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2 Peter 1:9 "For he that lacketh these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins." Notice you are saved from PAST SINS.
Now exactly where in scripture do you get it from, that says Jesus's blood covers our FUTURE sins. Peter himself said our PAST sins.
Do you deny this scripture?
Please enlighten me as to where scripture says our future sins are also covered. There only covered when we confess our sins my sister.
Thanks
joe
Now exactly where in scripture do you get it from, that says Jesus's blood covers our FUTURE sins. Peter himself said our PAST sins.
Do you deny this scripture?
Please enlighten me as to where scripture says our future sins are also covered. There only covered when we confess our sins my sister.
Thanks
joe
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Also, rnmomof7, if nothing we do causes us to fallfrom Grace, how then did the Galatians fall? Were they a special case? It simply amazes me, that they could fall, but now we hear ppl say nothing we do can make us fall.
I dont wanna hear what they did or so. No matter what they did, they were under grace at one time, but Paul said you have fallen from grace. I wanna know how they could have fell, but we cant?
Thanks
Joe
I dont wanna hear what they did or so. No matter what they did, they were under grace at one time, but Paul said you have fallen from grace. I wanna know how they could have fell, but we cant?
Thanks
Joe
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In Matthew 24:48 we learn of a servant that decides his master delays his coming, so begins to beat his fellow servants, and eat and drink with drunks. When the master comes back, he appoints his place with the unblievers.
To have been a servant means he had to be a follower but yet now we see him included with the unbelievers. Why?
Simple he lost his salvation.
Thanks
Joe
To have been a servant means he had to be a follower but yet now we see him included with the unbelievers. Why?
Simple he lost his salvation.
Thanks
Joe
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God never tells us we can be "holy " in this life. he tells us that we should be holy..not that we can achieve His level or perfect holiness. Sanctification is a work of God in our lives . We will not be like Him(Jesus ) until we see him . Until then like Paul our flesh wars against our spirit.
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Hi.Dont mean this to be rude, but if you wanna believe you can live like Hell and go to God's heaven. Go for it my brother.
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1Pe 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Note what you just said--- what does it say? UNTO OBEDIENCE...does it not?
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Note what you just said--- what does it say? UNTO OBEDIENCE...does it not?
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rnmomof7
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joevberry3 said:
To do that would be a heresy ...to believe that we can live like the world because we are under His blood.
Bit if you will excuse me ..any man that thinks he can in any way be saved or kept in his own righteousness is teaching a salvation of works, and not grace or mercy . That is not what the bible teaches
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There are "SOME" that think since they said a prayer, that he/she is saved, and still saved no matter what they do or say. There are "SOME" Pastors that tell their congregations they can still sin(even commit murder) and he/she is still on the way to Heaven. Lets take a closer look at what a true Christian's behavior and acts should be.
1) 2 Peter 1:9 "For he that lacketh these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins." Notice you are saved from PAST SINS.
2) 2 Peter 1:10
"Wherefore, brethren, give the more diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never stumble:" Peter is commanding us to make sure our salvation is sure! How do you do this? By obeying God's word. Read 2 Peter 1:5-7
3) 2 Peter 1:10, 11
"for thus shall be richly supplied unto you the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." Peter said if you "OBEY" you will never fall! Fall from what?
4) 1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
If we claim to be saved but yet live in darkness, we are liars! Liars about what? ABout being saved! Darkness is sin folks! We cant fornicate, lie, steal, cheat, murder, hate, incest, witchcraft, homosexuality and believe were saved! I see with my own eyes and receive emails from people that "THINK" they are saved, but live a life contrary to the word of God.
5) 1 John 2:3 "And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments." We know him "IF" we obey his commands!
6) 1 John 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" I KNOW HIM" means you claim to be saved, but yet if you dont keep his commands are you? No your not.
7) 2 John 2:9 "He that saith he is in the light and hateth his brother, is in the darkness even until now." Do you really believe that you can hate "ANYBODY" and God really be in you?
8)2 John 2:11 "But he that hateth his brother is in the darkness, and walketh in the darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because the darkness hath blinded his eyes." If you hate, your LOST!
9) 1 John 2:15"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." If you love the world more than you love him, he is NOT in you. Simple, it means your lost!
10)1 John 2:17"And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever" Its clear, ONLY those that do the will of God lives forever! If you get saved, then dont obey, are you saved? If you say you are, your a liar! Thats not my words, thats God's words!
11) 1 John 2:24"As for you, let that abide in you which ye heard from the beginning. If that which ye heard from the beginning abide in you, ye also shall abide in the Son, and in the Father." See that God's word remains in you. "IF" it does, you will also remain in the Father. To remain in the Father means you had to be there at one time, you cant remain in something if you were never there.
12) 1 John 2:28"And now, [my] little children, abide in him; that, if he shall be manifested, we may have boldness, and not be ashamed before him at his coming" Boldness is the same as Confident. Confident of what?
13) 1 John 3:3"And every one that hath this hope [set] on him purifieth himself, even as he is pure." Anyone that is really in Jesus purifies himself! Purify? ABSTAIN from SIN!
14) 1 John 3:6 "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither knoweth him." Its odd that we have Grace teachers that teach that Grace covers all our sins. Look what the verse says. Whoever is in Jesus(SAVED) does NOT sin! It doesnt say Grace covers your sins does it? It says those that Sin (continually, willfully sin) has not seen Jesus, and they DO NOT know him! Means your not saved.
15) 1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God."He cannot continue in the course and practice of sin. He cannot so sin as to denominate him a sinner in opposition to a saint or servant of God. Again, he cannot sin comparatively, as he did before he was born of God, and as others do that are not so. In other words, if your saved you will not continue sinning!
16) 1 John 3:14, 15"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him" There is a book out by a prominent Baptist Pastor. Charles Stanley said once saved a person can murder another, and he/she will not be lost. John 3:14 teaches me Mr. Stanley is teaching a lie! Let ,me repeat he is teaching a LIE!
17) 1 John 3:24 "And he that keepeth his commandments abideth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he gave us." He that is saved obeys his commands and remains in Jesus. Abide means remain, once again how do you remain if you were never there? You had to be saved at one time! What happens if you dont keep his commands? He doesnt abide in you!
Now to the Good part!
18) Jude 1:4"For there are certain men crept in privily, [even] they who were of old written of beforehand unto this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ" They assume that salvation by grace gives them the right to sin without restraint, because God in all his Grace will freely forgive their sins. This is a warning to all of you that preaches Grace covers all sins! This is a warning to you that think because you said a prayer, that you can live any way you want too. Let me tell you if the Galatians could fall from Grace, so can you!
19) Galatians 5:4"Ye are severed from Christ, ye would be justified by the law; ye are fallen away from grace." If you they could fall from Grace(which means they had once been in Grace) why do you think you cant?
1601 ekpipto { ek-pip-to}
from 1537 and 4098; TDNT - 6:167, 846; v
AV - fall 7, fall off 2, be cast 1, take none effect 1, fall away 1, fail 1, vr fallen 1; 14
GK - 1738 { ejkpivptw }
1) to fall out of, to fall down from, to fall off
2) metaph.
2a) to fall from a thing, to lose it
2b) to perish, to fall
2b1) to fall from a place from which one cannot keep
2b2) fall from a position
2b3) to fall powerless, to fall to the ground, be without effect
2b3a) of the divine promise of salvation
Enhanced Strongs Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1995.
There is the Greek meaning to the word. Its self explanatory!
20) 1 Corinthians 10:12 "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." This is another warning about backsliding. Is these warnings not here for a reason? Yes they are! You can fall from Grace brothers and sisters!
21) Lets also see what Acts says: Acts 26:20 says"but declared both to them of Damascus first and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the country of Judaea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, doing works worthy of repentance" What is he saying? He is telling all of us to PROVE your repentance!
There are those that preach that we dont have to do any thing after salvation, no works, no deeds, no acts. Is that what the bible says? No!
Acts commands us to prove our repentance by the works, deeds, and acts that Christians do AFTER salvation!
It is my prayer that you are not taking God's Grace for granted like the Galatians did. It is my prayer that your not teaching as the false teachers did in the book of Jude. If you are, you are a liar!
Take a long look at yourself. Are you obeying God? Are you loving your enemies? Are you helping those in need? If not, no matter what someone tells you, your not a Saved Christian. What I have shown you is the word of God, its not my opinions, its the word of God! You cant be on your way to Heaven and not obey his commands!
God Bless You All,
Joe
This is the second time i have posted these VERSES straight from the Word of God. Would one of the OSASers PLEASE explain to me what each of these verese mean if it isnt salvation? But we all know it is.
Thanks
1) 2 Peter 1:9 "For he that lacketh these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins." Notice you are saved from PAST SINS.
2) 2 Peter 1:10
"Wherefore, brethren, give the more diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never stumble:" Peter is commanding us to make sure our salvation is sure! How do you do this? By obeying God's word. Read 2 Peter 1:5-7
3) 2 Peter 1:10, 11
"for thus shall be richly supplied unto you the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." Peter said if you "OBEY" you will never fall! Fall from what?
4) 1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
If we claim to be saved but yet live in darkness, we are liars! Liars about what? ABout being saved! Darkness is sin folks! We cant fornicate, lie, steal, cheat, murder, hate, incest, witchcraft, homosexuality and believe were saved! I see with my own eyes and receive emails from people that "THINK" they are saved, but live a life contrary to the word of God.
5) 1 John 2:3 "And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments." We know him "IF" we obey his commands!
6) 1 John 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" I KNOW HIM" means you claim to be saved, but yet if you dont keep his commands are you? No your not.
7) 2 John 2:9 "He that saith he is in the light and hateth his brother, is in the darkness even until now." Do you really believe that you can hate "ANYBODY" and God really be in you?
8)2 John 2:11 "But he that hateth his brother is in the darkness, and walketh in the darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because the darkness hath blinded his eyes." If you hate, your LOST!
9) 1 John 2:15"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." If you love the world more than you love him, he is NOT in you. Simple, it means your lost!
10)1 John 2:17"And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever" Its clear, ONLY those that do the will of God lives forever! If you get saved, then dont obey, are you saved? If you say you are, your a liar! Thats not my words, thats God's words!
11) 1 John 2:24"As for you, let that abide in you which ye heard from the beginning. If that which ye heard from the beginning abide in you, ye also shall abide in the Son, and in the Father." See that God's word remains in you. "IF" it does, you will also remain in the Father. To remain in the Father means you had to be there at one time, you cant remain in something if you were never there.
12) 1 John 2:28"And now, [my] little children, abide in him; that, if he shall be manifested, we may have boldness, and not be ashamed before him at his coming" Boldness is the same as Confident. Confident of what?
13) 1 John 3:3"And every one that hath this hope [set] on him purifieth himself, even as he is pure." Anyone that is really in Jesus purifies himself! Purify? ABSTAIN from SIN!
14) 1 John 3:6 "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither knoweth him." Its odd that we have Grace teachers that teach that Grace covers all our sins. Look what the verse says. Whoever is in Jesus(SAVED) does NOT sin! It doesnt say Grace covers your sins does it? It says those that Sin (continually, willfully sin) has not seen Jesus, and they DO NOT know him! Means your not saved.
15) 1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God."He cannot continue in the course and practice of sin. He cannot so sin as to denominate him a sinner in opposition to a saint or servant of God. Again, he cannot sin comparatively, as he did before he was born of God, and as others do that are not so. In other words, if your saved you will not continue sinning!
16) 1 John 3:14, 15"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him" There is a book out by a prominent Baptist Pastor. Charles Stanley said once saved a person can murder another, and he/she will not be lost. John 3:14 teaches me Mr. Stanley is teaching a lie! Let ,me repeat he is teaching a LIE!
17) 1 John 3:24 "And he that keepeth his commandments abideth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he gave us." He that is saved obeys his commands and remains in Jesus. Abide means remain, once again how do you remain if you were never there? You had to be saved at one time! What happens if you dont keep his commands? He doesnt abide in you!
Now to the Good part!
18) Jude 1:4"For there are certain men crept in privily, [even] they who were of old written of beforehand unto this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ" They assume that salvation by grace gives them the right to sin without restraint, because God in all his Grace will freely forgive their sins. This is a warning to all of you that preaches Grace covers all sins! This is a warning to you that think because you said a prayer, that you can live any way you want too. Let me tell you if the Galatians could fall from Grace, so can you!
19) Galatians 5:4"Ye are severed from Christ, ye would be justified by the law; ye are fallen away from grace." If you they could fall from Grace(which means they had once been in Grace) why do you think you cant?
1601 ekpipto { ek-pip-to}
from 1537 and 4098; TDNT - 6:167, 846; v
AV - fall 7, fall off 2, be cast 1, take none effect 1, fall away 1, fail 1, vr fallen 1; 14
GK - 1738 { ejkpivptw }
1) to fall out of, to fall down from, to fall off
2) metaph.
2a) to fall from a thing, to lose it
2b) to perish, to fall
2b1) to fall from a place from which one cannot keep
2b2) fall from a position
2b3) to fall powerless, to fall to the ground, be without effect
2b3a) of the divine promise of salvation
Enhanced Strongs Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1995.
There is the Greek meaning to the word. Its self explanatory!
20) 1 Corinthians 10:12 "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." This is another warning about backsliding. Is these warnings not here for a reason? Yes they are! You can fall from Grace brothers and sisters!
21) Lets also see what Acts says: Acts 26:20 says"but declared both to them of Damascus first and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the country of Judaea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, doing works worthy of repentance" What is he saying? He is telling all of us to PROVE your repentance!
There are those that preach that we dont have to do any thing after salvation, no works, no deeds, no acts. Is that what the bible says? No!
Acts commands us to prove our repentance by the works, deeds, and acts that Christians do AFTER salvation!
It is my prayer that you are not taking God's Grace for granted like the Galatians did. It is my prayer that your not teaching as the false teachers did in the book of Jude. If you are, you are a liar!
Take a long look at yourself. Are you obeying God? Are you loving your enemies? Are you helping those in need? If not, no matter what someone tells you, your not a Saved Christian. What I have shown you is the word of God, its not my opinions, its the word of God! You cant be on your way to Heaven and not obey his commands!
God Bless You All,
Joe
This is the second time i have posted these VERSES straight from the Word of God. Would one of the OSASers PLEASE explain to me what each of these verese mean if it isnt salvation? But we all know it is.
Thanks
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rnmomof7
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joevberry3 said:
Please cite the chapter and verse that says Judas was ever saved..I await your citation.
Could you give me a chapter and verse that says ALL the men that followed Jesus were saved?
How is it that unsaved men did miracles in His name ?
Peter needed a lesson in humility ..That Jesus taught Him..and it proves that one can not lose his salvation because we all know the work of Peter in the NT
I do not know where to begin with this mass of unconnected scripture.
But let me tell you the verse that God is not a respecter of persons in context is paul teaching that the Jews were not the only one the messiah came to save..please read it in context
Rom 2:10
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11
For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
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rnmomof7
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joevberry3 said:
Ohh joe..I feel like i am talking to a wall.
What does that verse say?
Sprinkling of the blood..
Joe I really do not think you believe you need a saviour..you can do it all yourself..
Now me ..I am a sinner that can only stand in the presence of God wearing the righteousness of Christ because I have none of my own .
Jesus came for sinners ..if you are not a sinner He did not come for you.
Joe I do not think you have a grasp on how filthy we are before a holy God.. and because of that you can not grasp the concept of Mercy
On the Revelation scripiture..that is a PROMISE to the elect..He is faithful and will never blot out their names..and only those in that Book are saved.
It says noting about Him actually erasing their names ..only the promise that He never will leave them or forsake those that are saved
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rnmomof7
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joevberry3 said:
Ohh joe..I feel like i am talking to a wall.
What does that verse say?
Sprinkling of the blood..the obedience is by the santifying of the holy Spirit , not human effort . that santification brings us to obedience and the covering of the blood of Christ.
As for Christ dying only for past sins ..here is what the writer of Hebrews says
We are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.* And every priest stands daily ministering and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.* But this man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever sat down at the right hand of God . . . . For by one offering has He perfected forever those who are being sanctified.*
Hebrews 10:10-12, 14
Joe I really do not think you believe you need a saviour..you can do it all yourself..
I am a sinner that can only stand in the presence of God wearing the righteousness of Christ because I have none of my own .
Jesus came for sinners ..if you are not a sinner He did not come for you.
Joe I do not think you have a grasp on how filthy we are before a holy God.. and because of that you can not grasp the concept of Mercy
On the Revelation scripiture..that is a PROMISE to the elect..He is faithful and will never blot out their names..and only those in that Book are saved.
It says noting about Him actually erasing their names ..only the promise that He never will leave them or forsake those that are saved
With this I leave the conversation , time to brush the dust from my shoes
Have a good night
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It really amazes me how people will not try and tell a brain surgeon how to do surgery, but yet a guy like me with a Doctorate in Religous Studies is told all day long, i have no clue what im talking about. i mean even after graduating with a 4.0 GPA, i am ignorant...lolrnmomof7 said:
Some questions for you---where does it say Judas was never saved?
Why did Peter repent if he didnt need to?
Why did David repent if he didnt need to?
How did Saul who was once blessed by God, lose his salvation?
How did the Galatians fall from grace?
How and why were the Israelites who were once on the way to the promised land, destroyed by God? These were once God's people but then afterwards was destroyed, why? Because of unbelief. Are you gonna say they were destroyed but went to Heaven?
How about Ananias and Sapphira--they both were killed after lying to God--are you gonna say they went to Heaven?
Why did the devil continue to go after Job? Was it to steal his joy? NO! He had no joy, the devil had already taken everything he had! What else did he want? He wanted Job to curse God and Die! But why you say? Why would Satan want Job to curse God? Do you think its because he would still go to Heaven? No, if thats the case, the devil wasnt fighting a battle he could win. Why would he want Job to curse God, die and go to Heaven?
Why did David beg God not to take his holy spirit from him? Why did he ask God not to blot out his name???? Can you answer that? Or would you say he was saying empty words? Why did David pray that prayer if it cant happen?
Where in scripture does it say no matter what we do, we cant lose it? You wont find it dear. But yet, there are hundreds of warnings in God's word.
Why all the warnings???
Let me ask you again, are we saved into disobedience? Yes or no?
Yall all claim salvation is a free gift, when in reality thats a lie....If it was totally free, ALL would be saved. It is only free to those that ask for it. Do your kids have to ask for gifts? No! You give them gifts for birthday and christmas no matter if they ask or not. That is a free gift.
I dont claim that i dont need a Savior. Thats where you try and distort what im saying to keep away from the real issue here.
I have been saved my dear sister, and i dont play around with sin. If you want to, go ahead. As for me, i will preach against all sin, til i breathe my last breath.
I will ask you again, to show me proof in scripture that Moses and David continued murdering AFTER repentance. Can you do that?
So, wipe all the dust off your feet, and then when your wanting too, come back for the whole truth of God.
God Bless,
Joe
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Dear our salvation is dependant upon us. Are we saved if "WE" dont want it? Who's faith are we saved by? It is by OUR faith, so yes it is dependant upon us believing and accepting Jesus.joevberry3 said:
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Once again lets see what the true word of God says, you claim that Peter quoted the Old Testament. Lets see what Paul, Luke and othes have to say about US living Holy.rnmomof7 said:
1. 1 Peter 1:14-16
2. 2 Peter 3:11
3. Hebrews 12:14 MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO BE HOLY!
4. Titus 1:8 One who MUST be Holy.
5. 2 Tim 1:9 Who has saved us and CALLED us to a HOLY life!
6. 1 Th 4:7 For God didnt call us to be impure, but to live a Holy Life.
7. 1 Cor 1:2 Called to be Holy.
8. 1 tim 2:2 That we may live lives in Holiness.
9. Luke 1:75 We are to serve him in Holiness AND righteousness.
So, you still denying that Peter was talking about the Old testament? These are just a sampling of verses that command us to be Holy. By the way, you act as if, it cant be done. Well, do you give commands to your kids that you know theres no way they can do?? DO YOU??
1 John 3:3 says we purify OURSELVES! Does it say we are purified by Jesus? No it doesnt. It is our responsibility to abstain from sin and even the appearance of sin.
What does purify mean? It means to abstain from sin.
Do you deny all of the above verses?
You still havent answered post #93....Maybe its because you cant?
I will say to you again, i was once diehard Baptist and diehard OSAS--i preached it and believed it, until God opened my eyes, and i saw the truth.
www.arkwebshost.com/biblestudies/joevberry3/
God Bless,
Joe
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