OSAS: Can salvation be lost?

[joevberry3]

Hi Curt...is sinlessness the criteria for salvation? Obviously not or we wouldn't need salvation in the first place.

Does God expect a perfect holiness by all who would enter his eternal reward? Yes, but it is given to us by Christ. His holy nature is put on us.

Still...does he expect us to attempt to live a perfect life here on earth? Yes, I believe he does but he gave us an out when we fail...1 Jn 1:9

Is it possible to live a sinless life here on earth? I guess I'd have to concede...maybe, but I doubt it. Looking through the Bible I can't come up with many examples...perhaps Enoch? But we really don't know much about him.

Are you referring to the "manifest sons" when you talk about Christ saying we will do all the things that he did?

The gate is indeed narrow, but not so narrow that only the sinless can enter. Unless you are referring to the justification given by Christ.

Well yeah sinlessness is part of the criteria for our salvation. One Jesus himself commanded us to be holy. What does holy mean? It means to be without sin. He said without holiness we shall not see the Kingdom of God.
Two, Paul commanded us to die to ourself daily. Why? If having sin in our lives after salvation is not so important, why did he command us to die to our sinful nature daily?
Yeah, it is possible for us to live Holy lives on this earth. If it wasnt possible, i dont think our Father would have told us to live Holy Lives.
No, i disagree with the fact that we are made holy simply cause his Holy Nature is placed within us. Thats not sciptural. Why all the commands to us Christians if we dont need to live like that?
What about Revelation--The Laodicean church Re 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Re 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Re 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Re 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Re 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Let me ask, they were lukewarm, what is that? They claimed to be Christians but yet, did not do as christians do. What did he say in verse 20? He stands at the door! He wasnt even in the CHURCH! Why?
In my opinion this represent so many churches that preach sin is ok after salvation.
God is not in the midst of them.
God Bless,
Joevberry3@aol.com

 

[Andyman_1970]

He was called the son of perdition AFTER satan entered him. If you will do a study on it, the devil entered HIM AFTER he became a disciple, not before.
I have a complete study on this and proof that Judas was once saved as well as 14 other people in the old and new testament that LOST their salvation.

Proof that Judas was saved? What is the Scripture that says he acknowledged Jesus as Lord and Savior (like what Peter said, "you are the Christ")? Who are these 14 others that the Scriptures say were saved, or counted righteous before God (OT), and then lost their salvation?

I would say that unless the Scriptures directed indicate that person was saved or counted righteous before God, it is impossible to know if someone is saved. I cannot know if you are saved for sure, that is between you and God, and you cannot know if I am saved, that is between me and God. Any assertions outside of Scripture of someone's (from the Bible) salvation are suspect as best, that is assuming you take the Scriptures as God's inspired Word.

Now to another post-- Doing works after salvation IS NOT trying to keep your salvation, its obeying God and that should come naturally to a truly born again person(i realize we still will make mistakes)
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast FAITH, and I have WORKS: show me thy FAITH WITHout thy WORKS, and I will show thee my FAITH by my WORKS.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that FAITH WITHout WORKS is dead?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how FAITH wrought WITH his WORKS, and by WORKS was FAITH made perfect?
Jas 2:26 For as the body WITHout the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHout WORKS is dead also.

These verses seem to be overlooked so many times. What is faith without works? It is dead. Can one be saved with dead faith? NO.
Our faith is made perfect BY what? By our works!

I agree, a result of faith in Jesus are what James says in Chapter 2 (feed the hungry, cloth the naked, etc...). If you claim to have faith, and don't demonstrate the love of Jesus to others what's the point.

If there is no outward sign of what has happened inward you are either a) not saved to begin with, or b) very spiritually immature (still on milk).

 

[joevberry3]

You who are afraid of us OSAS folks might be happy to know that I know of no one who actually teaches that a person can be saved and then flaunt their liberty by sinning on purpose in the belief that they can do anything and still be saved. Salvation means that you are a new creature. That new life will show itself in a desire to grow closer and closer to the Lord. It means that the believer will have a desire to live a holy life and grieve when he fails. It does not relieve one of the need for repentance and a continual attitude of humbly asking for forgiveness.

[/QUOTE]well i know of one that says we can wilfully sin. His name is Charles Stanley, one of the leading baptist in this country. Read his book Eternal Security. He specifically said that one can murder after salvation--with absolutely NO consequences on their salvation.
I know of several...I can quote them all day long. It would be the longest post in history, so i wont do that right now.
Thanks
Joe

 

[Andyman_1970]

Well yeah sinlessness is part of the criteria for our salvation. One Jesus himself commanded us to be holy. What does holy mean? It means to be without sin. He said without holiness we shall not see the Kingdom of God.

I had sin in my life when I went to God and asked Him to forgive me and make Jesus my Lord. How could I have done that with sin in my life according to your criteria? The only way we are "holy" is through Jesus and the work He did on the cross. To say that there is something I can do to be holy enough to qualify for the criteria of salvation makes a mockery of Jesus and the cross.

If I can be holy, what was the whole point of Jesus coming down here?

Yeah, it is possible for us to live Holy lives on this earth.

It is, so that means I can live holy enough to qualify for God's salvation, is that what you are saying?

Paul had these two natures in him that were fighting, and he says he does things he does not want to do. That doesn't sound "sinless" to me.

Let me ask, they were lukewarm, what is that? They claimed to be Christians but yet, did not do as christians do.

I agree.

What did he say in verse 20? He stands at the door! He wasnt even in the CHURCH! Why?
In my opinion this represent so many churches that preach sin is ok after salvation.

Again, I would becareful making the assertion that chruches that teach OSAS advocate that sin is "ok", you're painting with broad strokes there and not entirely accurate.

 

[Andyman_1970]

[/QUOTE]His name is Charles Stanley, one of the leading baptist in this country. Read his book Eternal Security. He specifically said that one can murder after salvation--with absolutely NO consequences on their salvation.
[/QUOTE]

Does he say that God will punish them? If they are His children He will. So murder cannot be forgiven?

I prefer to spend my time studying the Scriptures, and not someone thoughts or opinions on them.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Joe, we are obviously not going to agree on this. There is nothing you can present that will change my mind, and I'm sure the same is true for you, and that's fine.

My question is: why do we let things like this serve to divide us? The Scriptures are very clear that we are to encourage, love, and help one another, but we seem to get so concerns about these issues, that in the end are somewhat trivial.

Anyway........

 

[Godzman]

Salvation is a gift you can choose to throw away a gift you can't choose to throw away something that is permanent.

 

[joevberry3]

His name is Charles Stanley, one of the leading baptist in this country. Read his book Eternal Security. He specifically said that one can murder after salvation--with absolutely NO consequences on their salvation.
[/QUOTE]

Does he say that God will punish them? If they are His children He will. So murder cannot be forgiven?

I prefer to spend my time studying the Scriptures, and not someone thoughts or opinions on them.[/QUOTE]I never said murder cant be forgiven. But it wont be unless we repent.

 

[rnmomof7]

Judas was ordained to betray Jesus?

Yes

Exactly where in scripture does it say that?

The plan of salvation was laid down before the beginning of the world . That plan needed Jesus to die on a cross. The method and the means were fully ordained by God.He did not send Jesus to the world hopping that someone would betray Christ so the plan he ordained could occur.

1Pe 1:20Who (Jesus) verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you

Eph 1:10**
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

Hbr 1:2**
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hbr 9:26**
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


Jesus asked this question

Luk 14:28
For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have [sufficient] to finish [it]?

Luk 14:29
Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish [it], all that behold [it] begin to mock him,


Luk 14:30
Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

Every part of the plan of salvation was in place before the foundation of the world . The time the place , the method there was nothing left to chance. This was a sovereignly ordained plan not a "hope it works out plan"

Now lets look further.
Jesus knew he had selected his betrayer among the 12

Jhn 6:64**
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Jhn 6:70
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Jhn 6:71
He spake of Judas Iscariot [the son] of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

Jesus called judas a devil..not a son of God .

Jhn 13:18**
I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.

Jhn 17:12**
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

This was not AFTER Satan was in Judas heart..it was before

Think about when Satan was in the heart of Judas

Jhn 13:2**
And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], to betray him

Satan was PUT into the heart of Judas..who do you think did that ?Who has the power to do that ?

Even then satan could not act with out the consent of God

Jhn 13:27**
And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

Judas was a part of the plan of Salvation, from before the foundation of the earth. God was not surprised of the events for they were His plan .

In other words, Jesus ordained an unsaved man to preach, heal, and cast out devils?

Why would that surprise you?
Judas (or any of the apostles) had no power of their own. The power was in the name of Jesus.

And what did Jesus say of that ?

Luk 9:49
And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
Luk 9:50
And Jesus said unto him, Forbid [him] not: for he that is not against us is for us.
The power is in the name of Jesus, not the person doing it, it proves noting about the persons salvation

Mat 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.



Mat 7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?



Mat 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I dont think so. If he was specifically ordained by Jesus, that means he never had a chance to go to Heaven. Honestly, what kind of God would he be if he "ordained" him?

Why do you think he wanted to go to heaven?
What kind of God burned down sodom? Flooded the world killing all life? What kind of God slaughtered the first born in Egypt?

The problem is much of the church today think that God has some obligation to save all men it THEY want it.

The only thing that God owes man , that he has earned is eternal condemnation .

The meaning of Mercy is to give one what they do not deserve .God does not owe us anything . Judas had no claim on salvation , any more than we do .

He was called the son of perdition AFTER satan entered him. If you will do a study on it, the devil entered HIM AFTER he became a disciple, not before.

If you will do a study you will find out Satan was not PLACED in the heart of Satan until the last supper ..yet Jesus called him the son of perdition before that .

I have a complete study on this and proof that Judas was once saved as well as 14 other people in the old and new testament that LOST their salvation.

It is anti biblical .
We do not even know when the apostles were saved..think about that for a bit. Scripture never tells us , it gives hints ..but no concrete proof..
We can guess at peter because he proclaimed Jesus the Son of God .

We can guess at Thomas ..when He put his hand in the side of Jesus and said "my Lord and MY GOD "
But there is not one bit of proof on any of them .

Now to another post-- Doing works after salvation IS NOT trying to keep your salvation, its obeying God and that should come naturally to a truly born again person(i realize we still will make mistakes)

That depends doesn't it?
If you believe that you can loose your salvation , then you believe your salvation depends on you and your works

If you believe that you are saved and kept by the grace of God...the as you say our obedience is a fruit of our salvation .

I was addressing those that believe they must work to keep our salvation

Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast FAITH, and I have WORKS: show me thy FAITH WITHout thy WORKS, and I will show thee my FAITH by my WORKS.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that FAITH WITHout WORKS is dead?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how FAITH wrought WITH his WORKS, and by WORKS was FAITH made perfect?
Jas 2:26 For as the body WITHout the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHout WORKS is dead also.

Probably one of the most misread passages in scripture, and if read as many read it ..it is completely out of agreement with the rest of scripture. But actually James is teaching us something different .Through out the NT letters Paul teaches us how God sees our heart and our salvation.

James address how men see it. How do we show the world we are redeemed?
Read the beginning

IF A MAN SAYS ..it does not say if a man has faith and has no works.
This is about what we give as our testimony

He addresses our witness to the world. Our words must line up with our witness
James says in 2:16
"If one of you say" to a naked brother, "Be ye warmed, notwithstanding ye give not those things needful."

This profession of sympathy answering to the inoperative profession of faith. Because if we indeed have faith , we will act in the name of Christ to others.

Can the faith that you profess but do not display be saving faith?

If the tree has no fruit it is a dead tree. But the fruit does not give the tree life. The tree gives the fruit life

James speaks of works done in obedience to the gospel, and as the proper and necessary effects and fruits of sound believing in Christ Jesus. That fruit proves the truth of our salvation to man .

God reads the heart...men watch out living testimony

If you say that you have faith ..BUT you do not have works of Mercy..your faith is dead .

 

[AVBunyan]

A quick review for those who still think they can lose their salvation - see link below - enjoy!

http://christianforums.com/t79832

 

[rnmomof7]

His name is Charles Stanley, one of the leading baptist in this country. Read his book Eternal Security. He specifically said that one can murder after salvation--with absolutely NO consequences on their salvation.

Does he say that God will punish them? If they are His children He will. So murder cannot be forgiven?

I prefer to spend my time studying the Scriptures, and not someone thoughts or opinions on them.I never said murder cant be forgiven. But it wont be unless we repent.

We may want to read the life of David and Moses..two murders that were ordained of God . We are saved by faith ..if our salvation depended on us we would all go to hell.

BTW we are ALL guilty of murder and adultery and stealing

Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all

The punishment is in the consequences of the sin here, not in the loss of salvation ..I think that was Stanleys point.

 

[joevberry3]

We may want to read the life of David and Moses..two murders that were ordained of God . We are saved by faith ..if our salvation depended on us we would all go to hell.

BTW we are ALL guilty of murder and adultery and stealing

Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all

The punishment is in the consequences of the sin here, not in the loss of salvation ..I think that was Stanleys point.

We may want to read of moses and david? No, maybe you need to.Moses murdered BEFORE God called him, and David repented of his sin.
There is a big difference rnmomof7...
Then in Psalms we see David praying to God to not take his spirit from him and to NOT blot his name out.Why did David pray a prayer like that? If it wasnt about salvation? What was it? HUH?
We all know to blot out a name means to remove that name, and we all know that if your name isnt in the book, your not saved.
Thanks

 

[joevberry3]

Hi Andyman--I think we agree more than you realize. I see by your writings you also disagree with those that say sin is ok after salvation. Thats who im against,not people like you that believes sin is not ok.
No, all churches that preach OSAS isnt giving people license to sin, i agree 100% with you on that. However, lots of churches do. I have been there and heard it. I was once diehard Baptist, once diehard OSAS, no matter what i did, i thought i was saved. I was proved wrong by God. I was awaken by God and he told me where i was headed. Even after this i had several pastors tell me, yeah you are saved. But, God kept dealing with me about it. I finally gave my life ciompletely to him.
We did a survey among 1300 people that attend churches that preach OSAS. An OVERWHELMING 98% believes sin is ok after salvation. So, thats proof that alot of our young people are not receiving the correct message.
We did the same survey among 1200 Pentecostals and ONLY 13% said sin is ok. So, we can see OSAS does play apart in people believing sin is ok. I go into further detail on this in my book, be glad to send you a copy free of charge.
I believe in OSAS in obedience. Once again we are saved into obedience, not disobedience. Once again, can we have real faith in diobedience?
Oh yeah, you asked who all was saved and then fell- Im at work right now, so im doing this off the top of my head.
Adam and Eve
David--he repented of his adultery and murder
ananias and sapphira
the Galatians--they fell from grace.one cant fall from grace of one had never been under grace.
Peter denied Jesus. Jesus himself said if you deny me, i will deny you. (are you gonna disagree with Jesus here) But we see, Peter repented of his denial when he realized what he had done.
Thanks
Joe

 

[joevberry3]

There are "SOME" that think since they said a prayer, that he/she is saved, and still saved no matter what they do or say. There are "SOME" Pastors that tell their congregations they can still sin(even commit murder) and he/she is still on the way to Heaven. Lets take a closer look at what a true Christian's behavior and acts should be.
1) 2 Peter 1:9 "For he that lacketh these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins." Notice you are saved from PAST SINS.
2) 2 Peter 1:10
"Wherefore, brethren, give the more diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never stumble:" Peter is commanding us to make sure our salvation is sure! How do you do this? By obeying God's word. Read 2 Peter 1:5-7
3) 2 Peter 1:10, 11
"for thus shall be richly supplied unto you the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." Peter said if you "OBEY" you will never fall! Fall from what?

4) 1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
If we claim to be saved but yet live in darkness, we are liars! Liars about what? ABout being saved! Darkness is sin folks! We cant fornicate, lie, steal, cheat, murder, hate, incest, witchcraft, homosexuality and believe were saved! I see with my own eyes and receive emails from people that "THINK" they are saved, but live a life contrary to the word of God.

5) 1 John 2:3 "And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments." We know him "IF" we obey his commands!
6) 1 John 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" I KNOW HIM" means you claim to be saved, but yet if you dont keep his commands are you? No your not.
7) 2 John 2:9 "He that saith he is in the light and hateth his brother, is in the darkness even until now." Do you really believe that you can hate "ANYBODY" and God really be in you?
8)2 John 2:11 "But he that hateth his brother is in the darkness, and walketh in the darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because the darkness hath blinded his eyes." If you hate, your LOST!
9) 1 John 2:15"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." If you love the world more than you love him, he is NOT in you. Simple, it means your lost!
10)1 John 2:17"And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever" Its clear, ONLY those that do the will of God lives forever! If you get saved, then dont obey, are you saved? If you say you are, your a liar! Thats not my words, thats God's words!
11) 1 John 2:24"As for you, let that abide in you which ye heard from the beginning. If that which ye heard from the beginning abide in you, ye also shall abide in the Son, and in the Father." See that God's word remains in you. "IF" it does, you will also remain in the Father. To remain in the Father means you had to be there at one time, you cant remain in something if you were never there.
12) 1 John 2:28"And now, [my] little children, abide in him; that, if he shall be manifested, we may have boldness, and not be ashamed before him at his coming" Boldness is the same as Confident. Confident of what?
13) 1 John 3:3"And every one that hath this hope [set] on him purifieth himself, even as he is pure." Anyone that is really in Jesus purifies himself! Purify? ABSTAIN from SIN!
14) 1 John 3:6 "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither knoweth him." Its odd that we have Grace teachers that teach that Grace covers all our sins. Look what the verse says. Whoever is in Jesus(SAVED) does NOT sin! It doesnt say Grace covers your sins does it? It says those that Sin (continually, willfully sin) has not seen Jesus, and they DO NOT know him! Means your not saved.
15) 1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God."He cannot continue in the course and practice of sin. He cannot so sin as to denominate him a sinner in opposition to a saint or servant of God. Again, he cannot sin comparatively, as he did before he was born of God, and as others do that are not so. In other words, if your saved you will not continue sinning!
16) 1 John 3:14, 15"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him" There is a book out by a prominent Baptist Pastor. Charles Stanley said once saved a person can murder another, and he/she will not be lost. John 3:14 teaches me Mr. Stanley is teaching a lie! Let ,me repeat he is teaching a LIE!
17) 1 John 3:24 "And he that keepeth his commandments abideth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he gave us." He that is saved obeys his commands and remains in Jesus. Abide means remain, once again how do you remain if you were never there? You had to be saved at one time! What happens if you dont keep his commands? He doesnt abide in you!
Now to the Good part!

18) Jude 1:4"For there are certain men crept in privily, [even] they who were of old written of beforehand unto this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ" They assume that salvation by grace gives them the right to sin without restraint, because God in all his Grace will freely forgive their sins. This is a warning to all of you that preaches Grace covers all sins! This is a warning to you that think because you said a prayer, that you can live any way you want too. Let me tell you if the Galatians could fall from Grace, so can you!
19) Galatians 5:4"Ye are severed from Christ, ye would be justified by the law; ye are fallen away from grace." If you they could fall from Grace(which means they had once been in Grace) why do you think you cant?
1601 ekpipto { ek-pip’-to}

from 1537 and 4098; TDNT - 6:167, 846; v

AV - fall 7, fall off 2, be cast 1, take none effect 1, fall away 1, fail 1, vr fallen 1; 14

GK - 1738 { ejkpivptw }

1) to fall out of, to fall down from, to fall off
2) metaph.
2a) to fall from a thing, to lose it
2b) to perish, to fall
2b1) to fall from a place from which one cannot keep
2b2) fall from a position
2b3) to fall powerless, to fall to the ground, be without effect
2b3a) of the divine promise of salvation
Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1995.
There is the Greek meaning to the word. Its self explanatory!
20) 1 Corinthians 10:12 "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." This is another warning about backsliding. Is these warnings not here for a reason? Yes they are! You can fall from Grace brothers and sisters!
21) Lets also see what Acts says: Acts 26:20 says"but declared both to them of Damascus first and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the country of Judaea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, doing works worthy of repentance" What is he saying? He is telling all of us to PROVE your repentance!
There are those that preach that we dont have to do any thing after salvation, no works, no deeds, no acts. Is that what the bible says? No!
Acts commands us to prove our repentance by the works, deeds, and acts that Christians do AFTER salvation!
It is my prayer that you are not taking God's Grace for granted like the Galatians did. It is my prayer that your not teaching as the false teachers did in the book of Jude. If you are, you are a liar!
Take a long look at yourself. Are you obeying God? Are you loving your enemies? Are you helping those in need? If not, no matter what someone tells you, your not a Saved Christian. What I have shown you is the word of God, its not my opinions, its the word of God! You cant be on your way to Heaven and not obey his commands!
God Bless You All,
Joe

 

[joevberry3]

1 John 2:3 "And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments." We know him "IF" we obey his commands! How can one refute me when it says specifically in Gods word, that we know him if we keep his commandments? But yet some say we dont have to keep his commandments.
6) 1 John 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" I KNOW HIM" means you claim to be saved, but yet if you dont keep his commands are you? No your not.

 

[rnmomof7]

We may want to read of moses and david? No, maybe you need to.Moses murdered BEFORE God called him, and David repented of his sin.
There is a big difference rnmomof7...
Then in Psalms we see David praying to God to not take his spirit from him and to NOT blot his name out.Why did David pray a prayer like that? If it wasnt about salvation? What was it? HUH?
We all know to blot out a name means to remove that name, and we all know that if your name isnt in the book, your not saved.
Thanks

Moses was ordained to be the deliver of Israel ..God did not change His mind because of the murder..

Well you had best repent for your murders

Jam 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

All sin is an abomination to God my friend and all sin is covered by the blood of Christ.

David was a man after Gods heart ...God loved His repentant heart...But God made might use of sinners ..including murders

Could you provide me with the scripture where Moses repented ?

On this scripture

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Who is the overcomer ?

It is the SAVED

1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.
1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? [/color]


Who will Jesus acknowledge before the Father?

Luke 12:8-9
"And I tell you, everyone who acknowledges me before others, the Son of Man also will acknowledge before the angels of God; 9 but whoever denies me before others will be denied before the angels of God.



Matt 10:32-33
"Everyone therefore who acknowledges me before others, I also will acknowledge before my Father in heaven; 33/but whoever denies me before others, I also will deny before my Father in heaven.

The over comers are those that are saved..the saved will be acknowledge before the father


Scripture interprets scripture

 

[JVD]

Joe...I still stand by my statement that I don't know of anyone (including
Charles Stanley) that teaches it is OK to continue to sin. To flaunt that liberty to sin. It is NOT ok and every OSAS teacher I know agrees with that. Just because one might say that a person can commit murder and not lose their salvation does not mean it is OK to commit murder, and that there might not be consequences for that action.

Now there may be some flake that actually teaches a person can say some magic words and achieve salvation and then encourage them to live it up because they now have salvation and can't lose it. But that person would be a flake and everyone would know it.

To anyone who actually believes that they ARE currently living a sinless life...Yikes, I fear for them. Read 1 Jn 1

Yes, God expects holiness...which is sinlessness. And he expects us to strive to live that way, but knows we will NOT, therefore the sacrifice of the lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world. That's why there is a SACRIFICE, because of sin.

Now, do YOU believe you are going to go to heaven because of your sinless life? Or because of your belief in our Savior, Jesus Christ? I think you will say the latter, just like me...WE AGREE!

 

[joevberry3]

HI JVD. I agree that we go to Heaven because of our belief. But let me say again, lots of UNSAVED people believe, and even demons believe in Jesus. Theres lots more to believing than what is taught.
Yes, again, i will say there are Pastors that teach sin is ok. I have heard it, and i dont lie. I have lots of them on my website, i can show you quote after quote directly from THEIR sermons and their books.
No, all dont think they are flakes---some fall for pastors telling them that.
God Bless,
Joe

 

[joevberry3]

Moses was ordained to be the deliver of Israel ..God did not change His mind because of the murder..

Well you had best repent for your murders

Jam 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

All sin is an abomination to God my friend and all sin is covered by the blood of Christ.

David was a man after Gods heart ...God loved His repentant heart...But God made might use of sinners ..including murders

Could you provide me with the scripture where Moses repented ?

On this scripture

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Who is the overcomer ?

It is the SAVED

1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.
1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? [/color]


Who will Jesus acknowledge before the Father?

Luke 12:8-9
"And I tell you, everyone who acknowledges me before others, the Son of Man also will acknowledge before the angels of God; 9 but whoever denies me before others will be denied before the angels of God.



Matt 10:32-33
"Everyone therefore who acknowledges me before others, I also will acknowledge before my Father in heaven; 33/but whoever denies me before others, I also will deny before my Father in heaven.

The over comers are those that are saved..the saved will be acknowledge before the father


Scripture interprets scripture

Can you show me the scripture that says moses kept muredering AFTER he was called? Can you show me scripture that says DAVID kept murdering and committing adultery after he repented?
Yes, overcomers are those that overcome TIL the end, why didnt you post that part of scripture?
Joe

 

[rnmomof7]

Joe...I still stand by my statement that I don't know of anyone (including
Charles Stanley) that teaches it is OK to continue to sin. To flaunt that liberty to sin. It is NOT ok and every OSAS teacher I know agrees with that.

I am not a particular fan of Stanley..but all he is affirming is what we all know ..that we are all sinners that are saved by grace.
and that not of ourselves it is a gift of God..

When we read romans paul lays out our need for a saviour.

To anyone who actually believes that they ARE currently living a sinless life...Yikes, I fear for them. Read 1 Jn 1

Yes, God expects holiness...which is sinlessness. And he expects us to strive to live that way, but knows we will NOT, therefore the sacrifice of the lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world. That's why there is a SACRIFICE, because of sin.

God never tells us we can be "holy " in this life. he tells us that we should be holy..not that we can achieve His level or perfect holiness. Sanctification is a work of God in our lives . We will not be like Him(Jesus ) until we see him . Until then like Paul our flesh wars against our spirit.

As Paul noted we are dead to sin..we no longer love sin we hate it. So when we fall we are distressed ..not joyful.
Paul struggled with his sin and we struggle with ours.But in spite of his sin..Paul never doubted that ability of God to save those that are His,